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How did you set these rivets

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william(at)gbta.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: How did you set these rivets

These are on the top wing skin (section 16).   Riveting the skin to the rear spar flange on the inboard edge (where the  rear spar reinforcement fork and doubler plate are).   As you can see,  mine turned out less than stellar.  I'll drill them out and try again but  thought I'd see if anybody has any secrets.  There isn't much room  between the tail of the rivet and the doubler plate to get a bucking bar on it  square and I don't have a squeezer head deep enough to reach over the skin  edge.

  

 Thanks in advance

 Bill

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tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: Re: How did you set these rivets

Bill,

What shape is your bucking bar?  There's no problem with resting the bar on the heads of the 470s in order to keep it square.  It also might help to use a partner so that the bucker can focus 100% on keeping the bar square to the rivet.



While you're at it you might want to check your pressure as all of those rivets look over-driven.  35-38psi is all you need for a 3-3 to 3-5 rivet.  Also try shortening your shooting duration to say just over a second, stop and see how the rivet's setting.  Better to under set and hit it again with a quick blurp then to blast away.  Don't worry about work hardening these small rivets.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: How did you set these rivets

Disclaimer - I haven't built my wings....



But you might be able to drill out the interfering rivets, then reset

them after the other one's are bucked??



Phil



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: How did you set these rivets

3M prop tape (Impact Tape) or in a pinch cheap electrician tape placed on the side of the bucking bar which is resting on the 470 heads should work nicely.  

  

 I would redrill and reset the toenailed bucked heads as you recommend.  Often, it is the bucking bar skipping off the rivet that causes the imperfection shown in your picture.  Use of a 2X instead of a 3X gun or lower line pressure can help the outcome.  Having a teaser trigger helps with the rhythm as well.

  

 Paul Grimstad #40450, found a 0.0625" foam with adhesive used by journeyman electricians inside junction boxes which is the cat's meow.  He had a bigger sheet of it and it had little tabs which could be placed on several sides of a bucking bar.  The foam also damned some of the vibration into the assistant's hand. Prop tape last a little longer.  Electricians tape has poor quality adhesive but they all provide a cushion on those 470 heads.

  



  John Cox

 #40600

 do not archive



 

  From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bill and Tami Britton

Sent: Wed 2/24/2010 8:07 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: How did you set these rivets

  These are on the top wing skin (section 16).  Riveting the skin to the rear spar flange on the inboard edge (where the rear spar reinforcement fork and doubler plate are).   As you can see, mine turned out less than stellar.  I'll drill them out and try again but thought I'd see if anybody has any secrets.  There isn't much room between the tail of the rivet and the doubler plate to get a bucking bar on it square and I don't have a squeezer head deep enough to reach over the skin edge.

  

 Thanks in advance

 Bill



 [quote][b]

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: How did you set these rivets

you can also run a piece of wide masking tape over the heads of the  

470's up to the corner to keep the bucking bar that's resting on them  

from mucking anything up.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

on the cusp of final install of the cabin top

On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:21 AM, tsts4 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bill,

 What shape is your bucking bar?  There's no problem with resting the  

 bar on the heads of the 470s in order to keep it square.  It also  

 might help to use a partner so that the bucker can focus 100% on  

 keeping the bar square to the rivet.



 While you're at it you might want to check your pressure as all of  

 those rivets look over-driven.  35-38psi is all you need for a 3-3  

 to 3-5 rivet.  Also try shortening your shooting duration to say  

 just over a second, stop and see how the rivet's setting.  Better to  

 under set and hit it again with a quick blurp then to blast away.   

 Don't worry about work hardening these small rivets.



 --------

 Todd Stovall

 728TT (reserved)

 RV-10 Empacone, Wings





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287987#287987

Sstella(at)incisaledge.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:23 am Post subject: How did you set these rivets

I just laid the square shaped bucking bar on the 470’s and that kept it square to the rivet and the duct tape on the bucking bar protected the rivets.  

   

   

Steve Stella  

#40654  Wings  

N521RV reserved  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton

 Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:08 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: How did you set these rivets  

  

     

These are on the top wing skin (section 16).  Riveting the skin to the rear spar flange on the inboard edge (where the rear spar reinforcement fork and doubler plate are).   As you can see, mine turned out less than stellar.  I'll drill them out and try again but thought I'd see if anybody has any secrets.  There isn't much room between the tail of the rivet and the doubler plate to get a bucking bar on it square and I don't have a squeezer head deep enough to reach over the skin edge.  

    

   

    

Thanks in advance  

    

Bill  

  

       [quote][b]

william(at)gbta.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: How did you set these rivets

I guess I didn't get my point across in the original e-mail.  The 470's 

aren't the problem.  The problem is that the tails of the AN426AD3's when 

not driven are nearly below the surface of that doubler so they are about 

impossible to get at.  Compound that with the fact that they ARE NOT 

perpendicular to the doubler plate (the flange on that rear spar is at an 

angle to the doubler) makes them pretty tough to get at.  Laying a bucking 

bar flat on the 470's and driving the AD3's in the flange will just lay them 

over.



Clear as mud??  I'll try to get a pic to explain.



Thanks,

Bill



--------------------------------------------------

From: "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net>

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:21 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: How did you set these rivets



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bill,

 What shape is your bucking bar?  There's no problem with resting the bar 

 on the heads of the 470s in order to keep it square.  It also might help 

 to use a partner so that the bucker can focus 100% on keeping the bar 

 square to the rivet.



 While you're at it you might want to check your pressure as all of those 

 rivets look over-driven.  35-38psi is all you need for a 3-3 to 3-5 rivet. 

 Also try shortening your shooting duration to say just over a second, stop 

 and see how the rivet's setting.  Better to under set and hit it again 

 with a quick blurp then to blast away.  Don't worry about work hardening 

 these small rivets.



 --------

 Todd Stovall

 728TT (reserved)

 RV-10 Empacone, Wings





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287987#287987

william(at)gbta.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: How did you set these rivets

The 470's weren't the problem.  Problem is very little room to get to the 

tails to buck the AD3's.  Setting the bucking bar directly on the 470's 

isn't the best way either because there is actually some angle to the AD3's. 

See the attached pictures for a better description.



BTW:  Sorry for the huge pictures I sent earlier.  Reset the megs on my 

camera to it's lowest setting.  Maybe these won't take up as much space.



Do not archive



Bill

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: How did you set these rivets

I have a bucking bar just made for your application .... picture a soap 

bar with a 'ledge' protruding from one of teh short edges.

Linn



Bill and Tami Britton wrote:

[quote] The 470's weren't the problem.  Problem is very little room to get to 

 the tails to buck the AD3's.  Setting the bucking bar directly on the 

 470's isn't the best way either because there is actually some angle to 

 the AD3's. See the attached pictures for a better description.

 

 BTW:  Sorry for the huge pictures I sent earlier.  Reset the megs on my 

 camera to it's lowest setting.  Maybe these won't take up as much space.

 

 Do not archive

 

 Bill

 ---

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: How did you set these rivets

They make a bar that will fit in their real nice.  My tungsten bad has a end that has a edge with a lip that will allow the bar to be canted at the angle of the spar and skin what will fit between the rivet and the existing 470 rivet.  

   

 [img]cid:image001.png(at)01CAB572.FB6B8FB0[/img]  

   

This bar makes riveting so simple just don’t drop it or it will ding your skins in a heartbeat.  I am getting in the practice to lay carpet down on all material being bucked so if I do drop it no damage is done.   

   

John 40864  

Emp assembly (finally done primering)  

   

   

   

   

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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: How did you set these rivets

You should be able to "free hand" an angled face bucking bar in that  

spot without much of a problem.  Use your thumb and forefinger to  

square up the face to the surface... and tape off the bar where it  

might bounce in to something you don't want to scratch.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

On Feb 24, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Bill and Tami Britton wrote:



[quote] The 470's weren't the problem.  Problem is very little room to get  

 to the tails to buck the AD3's.  Setting the bucking bar directly on  

 the 470's isn't the best way either because there is actually some  

 angle to the AD3's. See the attached pictures for a better  

 description.



 BTW:  Sorry for the huge pictures I sent earlier.  Reset the megs on  

 my camera to it's lowest setting.  Maybe these won't take up as much  

 space.



 Do not archive



 Bill

 ---

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: How did you set these rivets

Can't you use a bucking bar with an angled face?  Then you don't touch  

the 470's and can adjust for the angle difference...

Sent from my iPhone



On Feb 24, 2010, at 6:31 PM, "Billy & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>  

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 I guess I didn't get my point across in the original e-mail.  The  

 470's aren't the problem.  The problem is that the tails of the  

 AN426AD3's when not driven are nearly below the surface of that  

 doubler so they are about impossible to get at.  Compound that with  

 the fact that they ARE NOT perpendicular to the doubler plate (the  

 flange on that rear spar is at an angle to the doubler) makes them  

 pretty tough to get at.  Laying a bucking bar flat on the 470's and  

 driving the AD3's in the flange will just lay them over.



 Clear as mud??  I'll try to get a pic to explain.



 Thanks,

 Bill



 --------------------------------------------------

 From: "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net>

 Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:21 PM

 To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Re: How did you set these rivets



> 

>

> Bill,

> What shape is your bucking bar?  There's no problem with resting  

> the bar on the heads of the 470s in order to keep it square.  It  

> also might help to use a partner so that the bucker can focus 100%  

> on keeping the bar square to the rivet.

>

> While you're at it you might want to check your pressure as all of  

> those rivets look over-driven.  35-38psi is all you need for a 3-3  

> to 3-5 rivet. Also try shortening your shooting duration to say  

> just over a second, stop and see how the rivet's setting.  Better  

> to under set and hit it again with a quick blurp then to blast  

> away.  Don't worry about work hardening these small rivets.

>

> --------

> Todd Stovall

> 728TT (reserved)

> RV-10 Empacone, Wings

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287987#287987

>




	




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william(at)gbta.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: How did you set these rivets

That looks exactly like what I need.  Looks like I  need to expand my bucking bar selection.

  

 Thanks guys.

  

 Bill--Trying to get wings done between all the mistakes  and questions--Britton

 RV-10

  



  From: John Cumins (jcumins(at)jcis.net) 

 Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:01 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Re: How did you set these  rivets

 



  

They make a bar that will fit in their real nice.  My  tungsten bad has a end that has a edge with a lip that will allow the bar to be  canted at the angle of the spar and skin what will fit between the rivet and the  existing 470 rivet. 

  

 [img]cid:EB59362BB5BA48FBBCC5888459FB6396(at)BrittonPC[/img] 

  

This bar makes riveting so simple just don’t drop it or it  will ding your skins in a heartbeat.  I am getting in the practice to lay  carpet down on all material being bucked so if I do drop it no damage is done.   

  

John  40864 

Emp assembly (finally done primering) 

  

  

  

  

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