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Airworthiness Certificate

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Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

Got a little but "Unjazzed" when he gave me the invoice - $450 for the inspection.  Highway robbery as far as I'm concerned.  Especially when you consider that he inspected two of us at the same location.  He got there a bit before nine, inspected both planes and did the paperwork and was gone by eleven.  $900 for a couple of hours on Saturday morning - not bad.  But maybe I'm being unfair because he had to do at least 15 minutes work for each of us to get the paperwork ready before he left home.  Guys, don't tell your kids to be lawyers, tell them to become DAR's.  Oh well, a one-time fee, but still I hate to feel ripped off.



AzDave



Do Not Archive

_________________
AzDave

Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

Doesn't look like the first part of the message came through so I'll re-post 

it.



ELSA.  Next and final step is the Sport Pilot practical test.  Hope to do 

that before MV.  Then it'll be "Gouldings traffic, Kolb 2031 CeeYehRah 

reporting 5 miles South, Gouldings traffic"  I'm jazzed!



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_________________
AzDave

Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

Don't know why my message keeps getting chopped, but I'll try the first line 

again.



"I got my airworthiness certificate yesterday.  N2031S is now a legal ELSA."

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_________________
AzDave

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Airworthiness Certificate

Hi Dave,



Congrats for your ELSA. Who did the inspection. My guy was John Shablow from California. It was $350 plus $100 for his flight over to Tucson. I do hear that in some places back east that some DAR's are getting up to $750 for an inspection.



I will be flying up to MV May 18th. with 2-3 other planes. ( My Mark III, 2 x Zenith 701's and a Rans 12). We are going from Tucson to Payson, to Winslow then to MV. You could join us in Payson or Winslow if you want.



Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

Not wanting to sound like a broken record here BUT.........

Why the reluctance to have a genyoowine FAA guy do it for free?



I'd feel ripped off too.

-BB  do not archive



On 16, Apr 2006, at 12:02 PM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <pelletier(at)cableone.net>

 Got a little but "Unjazzed" when he gave me the invoice - $450 for the 

 inspection.  Highway robbery as far as I'm concerned.  Especially when 

 you consider that he inspected two of us at the same location.  He got 

 there a bit before nine, inspected both planes and did the paperwork 

 and was gone by eleven.  $900 for a couple of hours on Saturday 

 morning - not bad.  But maybe I'm being unfair because he had to do at 

 least 15 minutes work for each of us to get the paperwork ready before 

 he left home.  Guys, don't tell your kids to be lawyers, tell them to 

 become DAR's.  Oh well, a one-time fee, but still I hate to feel 

 ripped off.



 AzDave



 Do Not Archive

Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

Robert,



    Ain't any reluctance, but there ain't any FAA guys here to do it.  At 

this time 10 days ago, there wasn't a DAR in Arizona certified to inspect 

ELSA.  That's the problem.  This inspector just got certified last monday.



AzDave

Do Not Archive

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_________________
AzDave

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:17 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

You guys keep saying ELSA. What am I missing? Couldn't you get your plane 

registered as a Amateur Built Experimental? Is there really a different 

registration process for ELSA? Is there a downs side to registering it as a 

Experimental. The only limitation I can think of is that you can't use a 

Experimental for profit. The only exception is the temporary use of 

Experimental for training ELSA.



It seems there would be allot more DARs for experimental and maybe even some 

FAA guys in your area.



I suppose that there are all levels of quality of DARs but you would expect 

if you paid for a inspection you would get a good one. Again there are all 

levels of FAA guys but I got just what I paid for when the FAA guy inspected 

my Experimental. The guy made sure the numbers matched on everything that 

need to match and signed off. I couldn't get him to even look at my work.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc



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WillUribe(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

I was told DARs now have to buy liability insurance that is why the  

inspection fees have gone way up.  Most of the DARs are retired FAA  inspectors so 

they rather give the business to there retired buddies.

 

 

Do  Not Archive

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

Dave,  doesn't look like good distribution of resources.  There have to 

be

more experimentals in progress in AZ than around here.

I think the local FAA guy here does a fairly large radius of ops.



Anyway, congrats on getting it behind you and enjoy your legal Kolb.

-BB  do not archive

MkIII suzuki 41hrs  nearly ready to blast off for the first ride

of the season as soon as I replace one lumpy feeling wheel bearing.



On 17, Apr 2006, at 10:37 AM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote:



[quote] 

 <pelletier(at)cableone.net>



 Robert,



     Ain't any reluctance, but there ain't any FAA guys here to do it.  

 At

 this time 10 days ago, there wasn't a DAR in Arizona certified to 

 inspect

 ELSA.  That's the problem.  This inspector just got certified last 

 monday.



 AzDave

 Do Not Archive

 ---

Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

<NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 You guys keep saying ELSA. What am I missing? Couldn't you get your plane

 registered as a Amateur Built Experimental? Is there really a different

 registration process for ELSA? Is there a downs side to registering it as 

 a

 Experimental.


	


If you didn't build the plane, then you can't register it as Experimental - 

Amateur Built since you didn't build 51% of it.



Also, the difference is that you can do all of the inspections on your plane 

after you attend the 16-hour Maintenance course if it is registered ELSA 

and, (here is the important part) the next owner can also attend the 16-hour 

course and do all of the maintenance and inspections.  Sure, if it is 

registered Experimental Amateur Buit, you can do the maintenance and 

inspections since you built it.  But the next owner has to have an A & E guy 

do the annuals and maintenance and that can get expensive.  Therefore, your 

plane becomes more valuable if/when you want to sell it if it is registered 

ELSA.



 > It seems there would be allot more DARs for experimental and maybe even 

some

 	  Quote: 	
		   FAA guys in your area.


	


Yes there are.  But for some reason, known only to somebody sitting behind a 

grey desk somewhere, they can inspect Amateur Built but not ELSA.  I guess 

it's because if it is registered ELSA it flies different.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I suppose that there are all levels of quality of DARs but you would 

 expect

 if you paid for a inspection you would get a good one. Again there are all

 levels of FAA guys but I got just what I paid for when the FAA guy 

 inspected

 my Experimental. The guy made sure the numbers matched on everything that

 need to match and signed off. I couldn't get him to even look at my work.


	


Yes, I still think I paid an outrageous fee but he did do a thorough 

inspection.  He spent about 45 minutes on just the plane.



 AzDave

 	  Quote:

_________________
AzDave

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

According to the regs for amateur experimental you do not have to be

the sole builder.  If one or two guys previous to you built their 

contribution

and documented it, that is all that is required.  I rebuilt one wing and

repaired a cage and I am the manufacturer of record.

-BB

-also having a dusty old A&P ticket helps

On 17, Apr 2006, at 12:10 PM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <pelletier(at)cableone.net>

  

 <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

>

> You guys keep saying ELSA. What am I missing? Couldn't you get your 

> plane

> registered as a Amateur Built Experimental? Is there really a 

> different

> registration process for ELSA? Is there a downs side to registering 

> it as

> a

> Experimental.



 If you didn't build the plane, then you can't register it as 

 Experimental -

 Amateur Built since you didn't build 51% of it.



 Also, the difference is that you can do all of the inspections on your 

 plane

 after you attend the 16-hour Maintenance course if it is registered 

 ELSA

 and, (here is the important part) the next owner can also attend the 

 16-hour

 course and do all of the maintenance and inspections.  Sure, if it is

 registered Experimental Amateur Buit, you can do the maintenance and

 inspections since you built it.  But the next owner has to have an A & 

 E guy

 do the annuals and maintenance and that can get expensive.  Therefore, 

 your

 plane becomes more valuable if/when you want to sell it if it is 

 registered

 ELSA.



> It seems there would be allot more DARs for experimental and maybe 

> even

 some

> FAA guys in your area.



 Yes there are.  But for some reason, known only to somebody sitting 

 behind a

 grey desk somewhere, they can inspect Amateur Built but not ELSA.  I 

 guess

 it's because if it is registered ELSA it flies different.



> I suppose that there are all levels of quality of DARs but you would

> expect

> if you paid for a inspection you would get a good one. Again there 

> are all

> levels of FAA guys but I got just what I paid for when the FAA guy

> inspected

> my Experimental. The guy made sure the numbers matched on everything 

> that

> need to match and signed off. I couldn't get him to even look at my 

> work.



 Yes, I still think I paid an outrageous fee but he did do a thorough

 inspection.  He spent about 45 minutes on just the plane.



  AzDave

>

>

Possum

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Georgia

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

At 11:15 AM 4/17/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

It seems there would be allot more DARs for experimental and maybe even some

FAA guys in your area.


	


Come on guys ....I'm am making $4,000 a week as a DAR - don't make waves.

Don't have to get up till 10:00 AM - because they never have the paper work

ready anyway. Everybody's got to pay the rent!

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: Airworthiness Certificate

Thanks Dave



I forgot the 16 hour class was a feature of ELSA registration.



Seems like there might be some way to change a amateur built experimental to 

a ELSA if necessary. In fact I would expect that the FAA considers the 

experimental a higher level of registration. It's something like the private 

pilot license that can fly a ELSA without a medical. I would think that when 

it all sorts out, its likely that a airplane registered as a Experimental 

that meets the standards of a ELSA will have that ability to be maintained 

by a nonbuilder owner with the 16 hour class also.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc



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