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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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 Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:21 am Post subject: Strobe noise |
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I am getting a lot of strobe noise in my headset and was hoping we could work through this. It is so bad that I cannot fly with the strobes on. Here are the basics:
Aircraft: all composite Quickie Q-200
SkyBrite strobes/position lights http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm
Wing tip lights. Power supply is mounted on the right fuselage wall, right bebeath the rear wing.
Radio: ICOM A210 http://icomamerica.com/en/products/avionics/panelmount/a210/default.aspx
Antenna: Bob Archer com antenna model SA-006, mounted on left side of fuselage, just aft of the rear wing. http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Antennas/ArcherSportcraft.html
The distance between the power supply and the antenna is perhaps four feet.
The Skybrite installation instructions call for using "Strobe Extension Cables (light-duty, 3-conductor, 18 gauge, shielded)" made from that heavy PVC stuff. I could not route this cable through the confines of my wing, so I used smaller diameter 3 conductor, shielded, 20 gauge, Tefzel wire.
Symptom: When the strobes are on, there is an overall kind of a white noise background and the shoowp-swoowp kind of pulsing noise of the strobes. I can't make it go away with the squelch control, even jacked all the way up.
On Bob's suggestion, I removed the strobe PS input and supplied the 12V with a battery positioned right next to the PS. It seemed to help a tiny bit, but still no joy.
Any more suggestions? Nothing is easy to do on this plane, and everything is hard to get at. I cannot fit a vertical antenna in the tail, since it is already built.
Thanks,
Sam
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:51 am Post subject: Strobe noise |
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At 06:14 AM 3/4/2010, you wrote:
| Quote: | I am getting a lot of strobe noise in my headset and was hoping we could work through this. It is so bad that I cannot fly with the strobes on. Here are the basics:
Aircraft: all composite Quickie Q-200
SkyBrite strobes/position lights http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm
Wing tip lights. Power supply is mounted on the right fuselage wall, right bebeath the rear wing.
Radio: ICOM A210 http://icomamerica.com/en/products/avionics/panelmount/a210/default.aspx
Antenna: Bob Archer com antenna model SA-006, mounted on left side of fuselage, just aft of the rear wing. http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Antennas/ArcherSportcraft.html
The distance between the power supply and the antenna is perhaps four feet.
The Skybrite installation instructions call for using "Strobe Extension Cables (light-duty, 3-conductor, 18 gauge, shielded)" made from that heavy PVC stuff. I could not route this cable through the confines of my wing, so I used smaller diameter 3 conductor, shielded, 20 gauge, Tefzel wire.
Symptom: When the strobes are on, there is an overall kind of a white noise background and the shoowp-swoowp kind of pulsing noise of the strobes. I can't make it go away with the squelch control, even jacked all the way up.
On Bob's suggestion, I removed the strobe PS input and supplied the 12V with a battery positioned right next to the PS. It seemed to help a tiny bit, but still no joy. |
Do you have an audio system of any kind? Intercom?
Does radio volume control knob affect what noise
you hear? Do you hear the noise with the antenna
disconnected from the back of the radio? Do you
hear the noise on a hand-held radio while seated
in the cockpit (tune to unused frequency an open
the squelch)?
Bob . . .
| Quote: | Any more suggestions? Nothing is easy to do on this plane, and everything is hard to get at. I cannot fit a vertical antenna in the tail, since it is already built.
Thanks,
Sam
|
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
[quote][b]
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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: Strobe noise |
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Bob, I did a few tests in response to to your questions and here is the info.
I do not have a separate intercom, it is built into the ICOM A210
I forgot to adjust the volume knob, but. I'm pretty sure the noise is proportionate to the volume setting.
When I disconnected the antenna at the back of the radio, all noise ceased.
Installed a Radio Shack filter, inline with the power supply. - No change in the noise.
I disconnected the strobe power supply's 12V input, as well as the filter, and hooked up a 12V battery I had handy and located it right next to the PS. This eliminated all of the ship's 12V supply wiring. The noise seemed to remain the same.
I got a hand held radio (ICOM?) and listened to it with the strobes on and re-connected to ship's power, through the RS filter. The hand held's squelch easily over rode the stobe noise and all seemed well.
This seems like the A210 doesn't have enough squelch control.
Any thoughts?
Sam
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote] At 06:14 AM 3/4/2010, you wrote:
| Quote: | I am getting a lot of strobe noise in my headset and was hoping we could work through this. It is so bad that I cannot fly with the strobes on. Here are the basics:
Aircraft: all composite Quickie Q-200
SkyBrite strobes/position lights http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm
Wing tip lights. Power supply is mounted on the right fuselage wall, right bebeath the rear wing.
Radio: ICOM A210 http://icomamerica.com/en/products/avionics/panelmount/a210/default.aspx
Antenna: Bob Archer com antenna model SA-006, mounted on left side of fuselage, just aft of the rear wing. http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Antennas/ArcherSportcraft.html
The distance between the power supply and the antenna is perhaps four feet.
The Skybrite installation instructions call for using "Strobe Extension Cables (light-duty, 3-conductor, 18 gauge, shielded)" made from that heavy PVC stuff. I could not route this cable through the confines of my wing, so I used smaller diameter 3 conductor, shielded, 20 gauge, Tefzel wire.
Symptom: When the strobes are on, there is an overall kind of a white noise background and the shoowp-swoowp kind of pulsing noise of the strobes. I can't make it go away with the squelch control, even jacked all the way up.
On Bob's suggestion, I removed the strobe PS input and supplied the 12V with a battery positioned right next to the PS. It seemed to help a tiny bit, but still no joy. |
Do you have an audio system of any kind? Intercom?
Does radio volume control knob affect what noise
you hear? Do you hear the noise with the antenna
disconnected from the back of the radio? Do you
hear the noise on a hand-held radio while seated
in the cockpit (tune to unused frequency an open
the squelch)?
Bob . . .
| Quote: | Any more suggestions? Nothing is easy to do on this plane, and everything is hard to get at. I cannot fit a vertical antenna in the tail, since it is already built.
Thanks,
Sam
|
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Strobe noise |
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At 06:11 AM 3/9/2010, you wrote:
Bob, I did a few tests in response to to your questions and here is the info.
I do not have a separate intercom, it is built into the ICOM A210
I forgot to adjust the volume knob, but. I'm pretty sure the noise
is proportionate to the volume setting.
When I disconnected the antenna at the back of the radio, all noise ceased.
Okay
Installed a Radio Shack filter, inline with the power supply. - No
change in the noise.
I disconnected the strobe power supply's 12V input, as well as the
filter, and hooked up a 12V battery I had handy and located it right
next to the PS. This eliminated all of the ship's 12V supply
wiring. The noise seemed to remain the same.
Okay, the noise RADIATED not conducted.
I got a hand held radio (ICOM?) and listened to it with the strobes
on and re-connected to ship's power, through the RS filter. The hand
held's squelch easily over rode the stobe noise and all seemed well.
This seems like the A210 doesn't have enough squelch control.
A squelch control allows the operator to set a threshold
at which an incoming signal will open the receiver's audio
circuits so that the signal of interest can be heard. When
the signal goes away, it closes the audio system to mute
what ever combination of noises are present while no signal
of interest is present.
Squelch controls have no noise mitigation or filtering
effects, they only shut off the audio so that you don't
hear what ever noise is present.
Some radios do not differentiate well between signals of
interest and some forms of noise. Digital signal processing
in radios like Garmin and King know the difference between
strobes, lightning, ignition and the guy talking on the
microphone.
Your particular problem may be based on proximity. Where
is your comm antenna with respect to the strobe supply.
Can they be separated more? Unfortunately, it seems that
your strobe system is probably incapable of passing a
DO-160 radiated emissions test. If this is true, then
there may be NO solution to your problem other than getting
more distance between the antagonist and your comm antenna.
Even then, the best you can hope for is to drop the noise
to a level that allows the ICOM squelch control to overpower
it. It will ALWAYS be there to some degree. When the noise
is strong, it has the effect of de-sensitizing your receiver.
You won't hear signals that are not strong enough to overpower
the effects of the noise. This is true even when your squelch
control is capable of "shutting it off".
What strobe system are you using again?
Bob . . .
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rparigoris
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: Strobe noise |
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I had a strobe noise problem with my Vertex handheld. Like you are finding there is not enough squelch. I called Vertex and they told me that their radio is set up for a ducky antenna and because I connected a AAE antenna it is just plain becoming too sensative. Sounds like a poor excuse, but did find that Vertex was to not going be of any assistance. I am using Kunzleman strobes. Bob was kind enough to send over a few noise filters with no better results. He even offered to help Kuntzleman pass DO-160 radiated emissions test, Kunzleman had no interest in talking to him. Kunzleman had a few suggestions with little results. For me it made little change if I had radio use ships power or not. It made a difference getting the strobe power supply out of fuse and onto wingtips. One thing that was terrible was using shielded wire for power. i tried it and it in fact brought more RF into fuse from power supplies, twisted pair works much better. I detail what torroids worked for me, read careful what grounding technique worked better. i also found that if i had AAE antenne touching fuse, i picked up a little more noise than if i had antenna mounted slightly off fuse. i have a Becker Comm and didn't have anywhere near the noise compared to Verttex, but after fooling noise is almost gone. see:http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31409Click on pics to get full details. I ordered torroids from www.mcmaster.comRon Parigoris [quote][b]
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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: Strobe noise |
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SkyBrite strobes/position lights http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm
Wing tip lights. Power supply is mounted on the right fuselage wall, right beneath the rear wing. They are about 4 feet apart. Not sure where else i could park it.
Radio: ICOM A210 http://icomamerica.com/en/products/avionics/panelmount/a210/default.aspx
Antenna: Bob Archer com antenna model SA-006, mounted on left side of fuselage, just aft of the rear wing. http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Antennas/ArcherSportcraft.html
Sam
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 06:11 AM 3/9/2010, you wrote:
Bob, I did a few tests in response to to your questions and here is the info.
I do not have a separate intercom, it is built into the ICOM A210
I forgot to adjust the volume knob, but. I'm pretty sure the noise is proportionate to the volume setting.
When I disconnected the antenna at the back of the radio, all noise ceased.
Okay
Installed a Radio Shack filter, inline with the power supply. - No change in the noise.
I disconnected the strobe power supply's 12V input, as well as the filter, and hooked up a 12V battery I had handy and located it right next to the PS. This eliminated all of the ship's 12V supply wiring. The noise seemed to remain the same.
Okay, the noise RADIATED not conducted.
I got a hand held radio (ICOM?) and listened to it with the strobes on and re-connected to ship's power, through the RS filter. The hand held's squelch easily over rode the stobe noise and all seemed well.
This seems like the A210 doesn't have enough squelch control.
A squelch control allows the operator to set a threshold
at which an incoming signal will open the receiver's audio
circuits so that the signal of interest can be heard. When
the signal goes away, it closes the audio system to mute
what ever combination of noises are present while no signal
of interest is present.
Squelch controls have no noise mitigation or filtering
effects, they only shut off the audio so that you don't
hear what ever noise is present.
Some radios do not differentiate well between signals of
interest and some forms of noise. Digital signal processing
in radios like Garmin and King know the difference between
strobes, lightning, ignition and the guy talking on the
microphone.
Your particular problem may be based on proximity. Where
is your comm antenna with respect to the strobe supply.
Can they be separated more? Unfortunately, it seems that
your strobe system is probably incapable of passing a
DO-160 radiated emissions test. If this is true, then
there may be NO solution to your problem other than getting
more distance between the antagonist and your comm antenna.
Even then, the best you can hope for is to drop the noise
to a level that allows the ICOM squelch control to overpower
it. It will ALWAYS be there to some degree. When the noise
is strong, it has the effect of de-sensitizing your receiver.
You won't hear signals that are not strong enough to overpower
the effects of the noise. This is true even when your squelch
control is capable of "shutting it off".
What strobe system are you using again?
Bob . . .
===========
iv>
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
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_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com |
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