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Northstar problems
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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

I don't think so....the one I have in my hands (actually I laid it  

down to type) has the feel and weight of glass, and the ends of the  

glass tube look like they have been "flame smoothed" and I don't  

think poly-carb will stand still for that, but I could be wrong. This  

particular one is marketed by Mr. Gasket, and is not up to the  

quality of the Purolator filters, in my opinion. The instructions say  

"The glass housing will weaken if scratched or chipped. If the glass  

housing is damaged or dropped, DO NOT USE IT-you must replace the  

housing." I don't know if these warnings would apply if the housing  

were poly-carb. But aside from the instructions, which may use  

"glass" as a generic term, my experience tells me that this is glass,  

and so are the 3 on my plane, and the other 2 or 3 hanging on a peg  

in the hangar.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 876.7 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs~124 to go(135 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Mar 11, 2010, at 4:27 PM, vetdrem wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Let's see now....should I comment on "glass" filters?.........Naw,  

 I'm sure he ment to say poly-carbonate.



 Louie





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290045#290045

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

Lynn:



When you say "Glass filters" do you mean the cases are glass and the filter

material is something else or is the filter medium some kind of glass wool?



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:19 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

Mike:



Even though I'm in favour of the gascolator, I do have to note that the

chances of stirring up debris is much higher in the gascolator than in a

filtered header tank of a gallon or more.  The only thing I would like to

see would be to have the bottom of the header tank cup or funnel shaped so

any water would definitely flow to the bottom drain and not stay around in

the bottom of the header tank.



I used to service gascolators on bush planes that used a felt cloth to

filter all the fuel that went into the planes.  Felt like chamois won't pass

water.... Remember the cowboy movies where the hero always gave his horse a

drink from his felt hat...  The one problem with felt is that it is mostly

made of beaver fur ( Canada) and occasionally you will find a hair or two

that gets through the system as far as... you got it, the screen in the

gascolator.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

I think that's what Jim was pointing out, Noel. If you look at the  

picture again,  you'll see a fitting....looks like a quick- 

drain....underneath the header tank. I think Jim just hasn't got  

around  to cutting the fabric at that point...or am I full of it  

again, Jim?  : )



Aren't the present tanks equipped with the bottom drain? Mine is, and  

I think it was from a model 5 if not mistaken....Deke?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 876.7 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs~124 to go(135 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Mar 11, 2010, at 3:40 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   You need an access port on the bottom of the fuse to take samples  

 from your header.  A nice addition on future header tanks would be  

 for the tank to have a small sump on the bottom to trap water.



 Noel



 From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- 

 list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zimmermans

 Sent: March 10, 2010 1:15 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Northstar problems



 Here you can see the outlet on the front and the drain in the bottom.



 Jim Series 5 0-200



 21D  MN



 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Northstar problems

Lyn something to think about.. Pipers originally came out with a glass gascolator.  There are an ungodly amount of cub drivers up here that crashed, survived the impact but were trapped or pinned in the wreckage.  The gascolator would break and the ensuing fires would kill the otherwise pretty much unharmed pilot.  I know one of my flying buddies that watched a guy he had just checked out in a cub do an accelerated stall and go in.  By the time my buddy was able to land and get over to the wreckage all he could hear was his friend screaming as he was burning up... He would have survived that wreck had the glass not been in place in the fuel system.



I don't think you can find a cub or piper around here anymore that has glass in the fuel system.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

Noel-



The housing is glass, and the filter medium is some kind of nylon/ 

plastic/? material.  I don't have the Purolator package here at home,  

and don't recall what their marketing term was, but the Mr. Gasket  

brand calls it a "Clear View Fuel Filter"  Incidentally, the Mr.  

Gasket brand is a poorly-made version of the same thing Purolator  

used to sell. NAPA is another take-off of the same thing. The Mr.  

Gasket one uses plastic (of some sort) screw-in barbed fittings,  

whereas the original Purolator (as far as I know Purolator came  

before the imitators) had one-piece end caps that had "gentle" barbs,  

meaning that you could take the fuel hose off without pulling shards  

of rubber/neoprene out with it.

 From what I've seen, the NAPA brand is better than the Mr. Gasket,  

but by the time you read this, they both may have gone downhill in  

quality. Aircraft Spruce (2009-2010 catalog, p.164, lower left  

corner) still shows the "Glass  #804" filter, and the "Glass #806"  

filter, the 04 and 06 referring to the size of the end cap barbs in  

1/16" increments. Purolator used to sell a #805, which was for a  

5/16" fuel line, but Spruce doesn't seem to show that one. And like  

everything else, if you order, you may not get the genuine article,  

Purolator, but one of the cheaper substitutes, which aren't ALL that  

bad, it's just when you've seen and used the original, the others  

seem to lack the quality.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 876.7 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs~124 to go(135 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Mar 11, 2010, at 5:06 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn:



 When you say "Glass filters" do you mean the cases are glass and  

 the filter

 material is something else or is the filter medium some kind of  

 glass wool?



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

That is good info, Lenny....sad, but good to keep in mind. Two of my  

glass filters are situated in the cabin, sort of protected by the two  

angled down-tubes behind my head, and preceded by shut-off valves.  

The other one is under the console, surrounded by metal on three  

sides. I'm not saying that I'm isolated from the incidents that you  

describe, but if something gets to those filters and breaks that  

glass, well, I don't think I'm gonna be in any condition to scream.



Like Art Arfons replied to me (I had asked how he liked driving the  

Green Monster Ranger-engined dragster with the drive shaft rotating  

between his legs, TOO close to his crotch):  "I'm still lookin' for  

the guy who wants to live forever."



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 876.7 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs~124 to go(135 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Mar 11, 2010, at 5:22 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lyn something to think about.. Pipers originally came out with a  

 glass gascolator.  There are an ungodly amount of cub drivers up  

 here that crashed, survived the impact but were trapped or pinned  

 in the wreckage.  The gascolator would break and the ensuing fires  

 would kill the otherwise pretty much unharmed pilot.  I know one of  

 my flying buddies that watched a guy he had just checked out in a  

 cub do an accelerated stall and go in.  By the time my buddy was  

 able to land and get over to the wreckage all he could hear was his  

 friend screaming as he was burning up... He would have survived  

 that wreck had the glass not been in place in the fuel system.



 I don't think you can find a cub or piper around here anymore that  

 has glass in the fuel system.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 (100 hrs and counting on the rebuild)

 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290052#290052

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

The only reason I asked the question is because years ago my mother used to

use Angel hair in (spun Glass) in the filters of her aquarium.  As I was

reading the post it came to me that angel hair could make a great filter and

easily recharged.



Wouldn't gasoline dissolve polycarbonate?



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

Thanks Lynn



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:46 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

Those glass bowls were pretty hefty and hard as nails...  I expect it was

not the glass that broke but the body (top ) of the gascolator.  Like any

other fitting on the fuel system if it breaks that is not good.  Don't

forget the location of that glass bowl is the lowest part of the whole fuel

system.  As to whether or not Lynn's filters are susceptible to fracture I'm

sure the manufacturers have done studies on it.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Jimz

Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 31

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: Northstar problems

Correct. It now has a rubber hose around the drain, like a piece of radiator 

hose, and a hole in the fuselage to drain the fuel. There is an aluminum 

piece that goes in the end of the hose and you fabric over it. It all came 

with my kit. My Champ had a glass bowl like the Cubs and it cracked. I 

replaced it with an all metal one.





---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: Northstar problems

Yup, correcto, Lynn.  I replaced it with a 2-gallon aluminum tank with an 

even bigger sump and bottom drain.



Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

Previously Model 2 582 400 Hrs

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)



 	  Quote: 	
		   I think that's what Jim was pointing out, Noel. If you look at the 

 picture again,  you'll see a fitting....looks like a quick- 

 drain....underneath the header tank. I think Jim just hasn't got  around 

 to cutting the fabric at that point...or am I full of it  again, Jim?  : )



 Aren't the present tanks equipped with the bottom drain? Mine is, and  I 

 think it was from a model 5 if not mistaken....Deke?



 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 876.7 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

 Countdown to 1000 hrs~124 to go(135 days to go)

 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

 Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying (and learning)

 On Mar 11, 2010, at 3:40 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



> You need an access port on the bottom of the fuse to take samples  from 

> your header.  A nice addition on future header tanks would be  for the 

> tank to have a small sump on the bottom to trap water.

>

> Noel

>

> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- 

> list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zimmermans

> Sent: March 10, 2010 1:15 AM

> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

> Subject: Re: Northstar problems

>

> Here you can see the outlet on the front and the drain in the bottom.

>

> Jim Series 5 0-200

>

> 21D  MN

>

> ============================================================ _- 

> ============================================================ _- 

> contribution_- 

> ============================================================

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Northstar problems

 	  Float Flyr wrote: 	
		  Those glass bowls were pretty hefty and hard as nails...  I expect it was

not the glass that broke but the body (top ) of the gascolator.  Like any

other fitting on the fuel system if it breaks that is not good.  Don't

forget the location of that glass bowl is the lowest part of the whole fuel

system.  As to whether or not Lynn's filters are susceptible to fracture I'm

sure the manufacturers have done studies on it.



Noel



-- 	




no, it was the glass.  I have not seen any glass that would not break and the aluminum housing would.  Last time I checked, the metal was alot tougher than the glass.



When I stuffed the pacer (short wing piper death trap for some of you out there   ) in, the glass shattered on it, but I was fortunate enough that it did not ignite.



easy test, go smack one with a hammer and tell me if the glass shatters or the metal housing fails.



Lynn is probably right in thinking that if his break, he probably wont be in any shape to scream, or worry about the ensuing flames.



FWIW, I have plastic see through filters on mine with the rounded barbs and they have not given me any trouble.  one started to plug off, but I knew it right away as my fuel flow was running lower than it should have been on my flow meter.  I kicked on the electric back up pump and set it down in short order and swapped it (I carry 2 spares).

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