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Painting Question

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: Painting Question

Tomorrow or Friday latest, I plan on painting the trim colors on my 

fuselage.  It has been ten years since I did the deed and want to ask for 

advice from those that have painted more recently and can remember.  I am 

using Aerothane in a home made paint booth.



1.  Did you rotate the fuselage and only paint horizontal surfaces?



2 when did you pull the masking tape?



Thanks,



Lowell

Vic Baker

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Carson City, Nevada

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: Painting Question

Lowell,



Using Polytone here.  The blush retarder I use to slow drying (improve 

gloss) makes paint prone to run unless great care is used.  I shot almost 

all paint (trim and main) onto horizontal surfaces.   (rotate part being 

painted)   The spinner was especially interesting to paint.  After twice 

getting runs I built a little fixture to slowly rotate while drying.  For 

the trim I used propylene masking tape from ACS,  I pulled the tape shortly 

after one cross coat  (perhaps no longer than 5 minutes).   Again - 

horizontal surfaces only - had no runs.



On the paint booth,  I spent quite a bit of time trying to get it right. 

Lighting,  sealed motor exhaust fan,  incoming air filters from a "paint 

booth" supplier.   I used a bunch of Lowes air filters (home heating return 

duct filters) to filter to overspray out of the exhaust.



Finally,  although I used a quality breathing mask,  I discovered when 

painting the blue trim that my beard was blue around where the mask fit.  It 

had been leaking all through the building process and I did not notice it. 

Now, two years later,  I still cannot smell MEK.   You are shooting 

Aerothane so I know you have a forced air supply for breathing.



Hope this helps.

Vic

Vic Baker

S7 912S Warp

Carson City, Nv

---

_________________
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada

Vic Baker

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Carson City, Nevada

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: Painting Question

[quote] Lowell,



 Using Polytone here.  The blush retarder I use to slow drying (improve 

 gloss) makes paint prone to run unless great care is used.  I shot almost 

 all paint (trim and main) onto horizontal surfaces.   (rotate part being 

 painted)   The spinner was especially interesting to paint.  After twice 

 getting runs I built a little fixture to slowly rotate while drying.  For 

 the trim I used propylene masking tape from ACS,  I pulled the tape 

 shortly after one cross coat  (perhaps no longer than 5 minutes). 

   Again - horizontal surfaces only - had no runs.



 On the paint booth,  I spent quite a bit of time trying to get it right. 

 Lighting,  sealed motor exhaust fan,  incoming air filters from a "paint 

 booth" supplier.   I used a bunch of Lowes air filters (home heating 

 return duct filters) to filter to overspray out of the exhaust.



 Finally,  although I used a quality breathing mask,  I discovered when 

 painting the blue trim that my beard was blue around where the mask fit. 

 It had been leaking all through the building process and I did not notice 

 it. Now, two years later,  I still cannot smell MEK.   You are shooting 

 Aerothane so I know you have a forced air supply for breathing.



 Hope this helps.

 Vic

 Vic Baker

 S7 912S Warp

 Carson City, Nv

 ---

_________________
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: Painting Question

Vic, Did you like that propylene tape? I tried it and went back to the std masking tape. The plastic tape streched and didn't stick as well.

  

 Pat Reilly

 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Vic Baker <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net (vr_baker(at)nvbell.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Baker" <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net (vr_baker(at)nvbell.net)>

 

Lowell,



Using Polytone here.  The blush retarder I use to slow drying (improve gloss) makes paint prone to run unless great care is used.  I shot almost all paint (trim and main) onto horizontal surfaces.   (rotate part being painted)   The spinner was especially interesting to paint.  After twice getting runs I built a little fixture to slowly rotate while drying.  For the trim I used propylene masking tape from ACS,  I pulled the tape shortly after one cross coat  (perhaps no longer than 5 minutes).   Again - horizontal surfaces only - had no runs.

 

On the paint booth,  I spent quite a bit of time trying to get it right. Lighting,  sealed motor exhaust fan,  incoming air filters from a "paint booth" supplier.   I used a bunch of Lowes air filters (home heating return duct filters) to filter to overspray out of the exhaust.

 

Finally,  although I used a quality breathing mask,  I discovered when painting the blue trim that my beard was blue around where the mask fit.  It had been leaking all through the building process and I did not notice it. Now, two years later,  I still cannot smell MEK.   You are shooting Aerothane so I know you have a forced air supply for breathing.

 

Hope this helps.

Vic

Vic Baker

S7 912S Warp

Carson City, Nv

---

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:08 pm Post subject: Painting Question

Lowell and Vic, I used an outside air supply I built from a $40 shopvac that you can reverse the hose to blow air. The vac was hooked to a garden hose that fed a $30 hood that I bought on line from a safety equip supplier, Cole-Parmer. I would recommend outside air for all painting. I didn't use an air supply when Polybrushing and even with the garage doors open, it was still a strong respritory and eye irritant. I won't paint without an outside air supply. Vic that spinner paint job reminds me of painting aerodynamic car mirrors with an elongated body. No flat spots to put horiz., Had to keep turning them. I wound up with runs too. I can imagine wheel pants would present the same problem. I had almost no overspray using a HVLP gun from Harbor Freight Tool. Not the turbine air feed but the standard compressor feed type. It was awesome dirt cheap paint equipment. I didn't need a booth. The only thing I would change is my lighting system. It was totally inadequate.

   

 Pat Reilly 

 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Vic Baker <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net (vr_baker(at)nvbell.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Baker" <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net (vr_baker(at)nvbell.net)>

 

Lowell,



Using Polytone here.  The blush retarder I use to slow drying (improve gloss) makes paint prone to run unless great care is used.  I shot almost all paint (trim and main) onto horizontal surfaces.   (rotate part being painted)   The spinner was especially interesting to paint.  After twice getting runs I built a little fixture to slowly rotate while drying.  For the trim I used propylene masking tape from ACS,  I pulled the tape shortly after one cross coat  (perhaps no longer than 5 minutes).   Again - horizontal surfaces only - had no runs.

 

On the paint booth,  I spent quite a bit of time trying to get it right. Lighting,  sealed motor exhaust fan,  incoming air filters from a "paint booth" supplier.   I used a bunch of Lowes air filters (home heating return duct filters) to filter to overspray out of the exhaust.

 

Finally,  although I used a quality breathing mask,  I discovered when painting the blue trim that my beard was blue around where the mask fit.  It had been leaking all through the building process and I did not notice it. Now, two years later,  I still cannot smell MEK.   You are shooting Aerothane so I know you have a forced air supply for breathing.

 

Hope this helps.

Vic

Vic Baker

S7 912S Warp

Carson City, Nv

---

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: Painting Question

Lowell, If your able to rotate and paint in the flat, it sure is easier. I did everything horizontal to avoid runs on vertical surfaces. The guys that paint everyday can paint vertical surfaces, but it is definitely harder. You might want to get The EAA "How to Paint Your Own Airplane" book. I used it as reference. It states to pull tape after about 2 hours. Pull the tape "into" the fresh paint. Also, do you know the proceedure of painting at the tape line with the underlying base color to seal the tape to prevent any bleed under the tape?

   

 Pat Reilly 



 On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

Tomorrow or Friday latest, I plan on painting the trim colors on my fuselage.  It has been ten years since I did the deed and want to ask for advice from those that have painted more recently and can remember.  I am using Aerothane in a home made paint booth.

 

1.  Did you rotate the fuselage and only paint horizontal surfaces?



2 when did you pull the masking tape?



Thanks,



Lowellhttp:=====

  http://forums.mle, List Admin.

 =====



	




 

-- 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL

  [quote][b]

7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:46 am Post subject: Painting Question

Guys,  

Cannot comment on the tape type but here is a little trick I learned to help get crisp clean trim lines, after masking, shoot our first coat with the base color along the tape, it will seal the edge of the tape and any bleed through will be the same color as the paint beneath. Then shoot the trim color.  

   

Lloyd  

     

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Reilly

 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:44 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Painting Question  

  

     

Vic, Did you like that propylene tape? I tried it and went back to the std masking tape. The plastic tape streched and didn't stick as well.  

    

   

    

Pat Reilly  

    

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Vic Baker <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net (vr_baker(at)nvbell.net)> wrote:  

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Baker" <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net (vr_baker(at)nvbell.net)>

 

 Lowell,

 

 Using Polytone here.  The blush retarder I use to slow drying (improve gloss) makes paint prone to run unless great care is used.  I shot almost all paint (trim and main) onto horizontal surfaces.   (rotate part being painted)   The spinner was especially interesting to paint.  After twice getting runs I built a little fixture to slowly rotate while drying.  For the trim I used propylene masking tape from ACS,  I pulled the tape shortly after one cross coat  (perhaps no longer than 5 minutes).   Again - horizontal surfaces only - had no runs.

 

 On the paint booth,  I spent quite a bit of time trying to get it right. Lighting,  sealed motor exhaust fan,  incoming air filters from a "paint booth" supplier.   I used a bunch of Lowes air filters (home heating return duct filters) to filter to overspray out of the exhaust.

 

 Finally,  although I used a quality breathing mask,  I discovered when painting the blue trim that my beard was blue around where the mask fit.  It had been leaking all through the building process and I did not notice it. Now, two years later,  I still cannot smell MEK.   You are shooting Aerothane so I know you have a forced air supply for breathing.

 

 Hope this helps.

 Vic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Vic Baker

 S7 912S Warp

 Carson City, Nv

 ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: Painting Question

I've also heard that painting some clear at the tape edge will also  

prevent color creep under the tape. If nothing else, the best way to  

prevent creep under, is to use the vinyl tape, but don't stretch it  

when you apply it. Just get it taut to produce a straight line...if  

that's what you want....and lay it down....DON'T pull on it. And most  

important....whatever form of taping you do, be sure the use a  

fingernail to press down on all the taped edges JUST before painting,  

or even just ahead of where you're painting. Tape always wants to  

lift, so the less time between pressing it down and actual shooting  

is best.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 880.5 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs~120 to go(128 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Mar 18, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lowell, If your able to rotate and paint in the flat, it sure is  

 easier. I did everything horizontal to avoid runs on vertical  

 surfaces. The guys that paint everyday can paint vertical surfaces,  

 but it is definitely harder. You might want to get The EAA "How to  

 Paint Your Own Airplane" book. I used it as reference. It states to  

 pull tape after about 2 hours. Pull the tape "into" the fresh  

 paint. Also, do you know the proceedure of painting at the tape  

 line with the underlying base color to seal the tape to prevent any  

 bleed under the tape?



 Pat Reilly

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:52 am Post subject: Painting Question

Re the beard.....I had a beard when working with cyanoacrylate (SP?)  

(superglue) and it snuck around the mask and affected me, so I shaved  

the beard off, and it's been off ever since.



Masks just don't seal well over facial hair.



Lowell, I used a fuselage "spit" and a wing spit, and only shot  

horizontal surfaces whenever possible. I also had any item that was  

to be painted, statically grounded to the damp floor that I was  

working on.



I pulled the tape early enough on so that any edge was still soft  

enough so that it could sort of "heal" or smooth out after the tape  

was pulled.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 880.5 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs~120 to go(128 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Mar 18, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Vic Baker wrote:



[quote] 



 Lowell,



 Using Polytone here.  The blush retarder I use to slow drying  

 (improve gloss) makes paint prone to run unless great care is  

 used.  I shot almost all paint (trim and main) onto horizontal  

 surfaces.   (rotate part being painted)   The spinner was  

 especially interesting to paint.  After twice getting runs I built  

 a little fixture to slowly rotate while drying.  For the trim I  

 used propylene masking tape from ACS,  I pulled the tape shortly  

 after one cross coat  (perhaps no longer than 5 minutes).   Again -  

 horizontal surfaces only - had no runs.



 On the paint booth,  I spent quite a bit of time trying to get it  

 right. Lighting,  sealed motor exhaust fan,  incoming air filters  

 from a "paint booth" supplier.   I used a bunch of Lowes air  

 filters (home heating return duct filters) to filter to overspray  

 out of the exhaust.



 Finally,  although I used a quality breathing mask,  I discovered  

 when painting the blue trim that my beard was blue around where the  

 mask fit.  It had been leaking all through the building process and  

 I did not notice it. Now, two years later,  I still cannot smell  

 MEK.   You are shooting Aerothane so I know you have a forced air  

 supply for breathing.



 Hope this helps.

 Vic

 Vic Baker

 S7 912S Warp

 Carson City, Nv

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:56 am Post subject: Painting Question

Yep, I can verify that works great! My first  paint job had lots of little defects on the trim line. No more.    Larry

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Vic Baker

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Carson City, Nevada

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: Painting Question

Pat,  the propylene tape seemed to work ok.  I  put down blue masking tape about 1/4" outside my intended paint line then  laid the propylene tape half on the masking tape and half on the surface being  painted.  Next go around I will also shoot a little base color on the  tape/surface edge before painting the trim color.  Sticking did not seem to  be an issue, but I agree, it's not very sticky.   I did clean the  surface very well with my 50/50 IPA disti H20 mix right before  applying.

  

 ..........now that I'm talking about it,  I really  miss building........

  

 Vic Baker

S7 912S Warp

Carson City, Nv

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: Painting Question

Thanks for the tips on painting.   Actually my question was poorly phrased. 

I am painting in Lemon Yellow which recommends a white primary coat.  The 

trim is white, so the primary coat will serve as the trim highlights and the 

base color will be the final coat.  In talking to a local that restored a 

Stearman with Stits, I will be painting upright after yellow on the belly 

only and fighting the runs with careful light coats as recommended.  I am 

looking forward for this part of the process to be completed.



Then it will jigging up the engine and fuselage for the assembly of an 

engine mount.  Just coming along.



Lowell



---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: Painting Question

Thanks again for the tips.



I painted my first Model IV with Aerothane and it was in the upright 

postion.  I think Aeothane requires close attention to details.  I have also 

painted, in the past, with automotive urethanes as well as lacquers. 

Lacquers are easy as they are color sanded and then buffed to the shine you 

want.  Automotive urethanes are syruppy thick, as I recall and level very 

well and the coats can be a bit heavy without getting runs - a friends 

motorcycle tank, colorcoat - clearcoat, somewhat like the spinner. 

Aerothane needs several very thin coats and the wicking of the reducer into 

previous coats allows for the leveling without too much risk of runs.  The 

two hour tape pull is what I recalled from the past and the pulling in the 

direction of the latest coat also.



As a gun, I am using a turbine from Campbell Hausfield, I think from Home 

Depot fifteen years ago.  It looks like a piece of junk and probably is, by 

comparison to the $1000 units, but it minimizes overspray and the coats 

level very well.  At something like $230 a gallon for yellow from ACS,  I 

really need to limit overspray.  I am using a paint booth made from PVC pipe 

and vinyl sheeting with flourescents positioned for lighting.  It also has 

an exhaust fan and inlet filters.  It exhausts through a vent to the back 

window.  I appologized to the neighbor down wind and he said he liked the 

smell, it smelled like progress to him.  He flys a C-206 and restores 

Harleys.



Thanks again all.



Lowell



---

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