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rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.  Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?

  

 What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to aircraft engines?

  

 Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?

  

 Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.

  

 Many thanks in anticipation.

  

 Regards

  

 Patrick Pulis

 Adelaide, South Australia

  

  

            [quote][b]

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

9:00 to one pistons....if you are trying for better economy,

perhaps...but I would put a MP limit of perhaps 28" MP if you use them

at sea level std or colder conditions.  100LL is going to disappear,

we just don't know how quickly. Stock pistons of 8.5 to 1 are

certified to run on 91/96 fuel, and most any unleaded avgas

replacement will certainly meet that requirement.

As to dual electronic.....does it matter whether there is 99%

reliability or 99.994% reliability? Do you want to risk that 1% or

.006%? Will 2 totally independent electrical systems be 100% reliable?

Your choice of what risks you want. Are magnetos 100% reliable?

Obviously not or someone would design a cylinder to have a single plug

optimally located. Certainly 2 electronic systems are very reliable as

long as they both have sufficient electrons to drive the electronics.



My question is whether the benefits of a single Plasma III are worth

the cost and effort to have 2 different systems. Certainly there is

better cruise economy in theory, but no difference at full power. If

magneto equipped with Slick Start there should be no difference in

starting, so are the cruise benefits worth the trouble and cost?



On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:32 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual

 Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.

 Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?



 What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to

 aircraft engines?



 Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high

 compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?



 Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.



 Many thanks in anticipation.



 Regards



 Patrick Pulis

 Adelaide, South Australia

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

I have one and one.



Left is an impulse mag powering the bottom plugs.

The right is a P III on my IO-540 powering the upper plugs.



My 2 cents,

I like the split, I feel I am getting most all the advantages of the electronic ignition (single vs dual electronic)  and if it were to fail (mechanical or total loss of electrical), the backup of the mag.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

I discussed both of these points at length with Allan Barrett when I was ordering my engine. His take was that 9 : 1 pistons gave a modest increase in performance, with no decrease in reliability or TBO. I wanted to do one mag and one electronic ignition. He was not willing to build an engine with electronic ignition for a variety of reasons, but would delete one mag if I wanted to install an electronic myself. He convinced me to go with 2 mags.



Allan, chime in if I have misrepresented you position.



Jim Berry

40482

Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

Jim,

	I purchased the BPE IO-540 with FF Cold Induction and 9:1. I

ordered one mag and was going to do the same thing with the hope that PMag

would prove out before I flew or go with a Plasma III. At some point along

the way I decided to just hang a second mag on and call it good for the

first year of flight so I ordered a second mag. I happened to luck out and

buy two mags that both required an the AD before first flight. In hind

sight I wish I would have installed an electronic ignition on one side

strictly for the better burn. I also have come to believe an elec.

Ignition may help with part of my temp issues (James Cowl & Plenum; nuff

said).



YMMV,

Robin



--

martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

I have 1950 hours on my RV8 in the 10 years of operation.  The first 950 hours were with a IO360AlB6 Lycoming with 10to l pistons and dual electronic lightspeed ignition.  I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF 10-1 PISTONS. AFTER 951 hours of operation they almost killed me.  I noticed with the last oil change at that time there was a substantial (not a trace) of metal bearing material in the oil filter. I was alarmed. I removed a cylinder and piston and discovered that there was NO BEARINGS LEFT on the connecting rod to crankshaft bearings. Needless to say, I was quite alarmed. I then removed the other cylinders and saw that all 4 rod bearings were gone.The crankshaft etc. were damaged beyond repair.After that scare, I decided that I would buy a NEW engine. I always wondered why people would spend the money required  for a new engine rather than overhaul a second hand used engine.  I had just returned home in wisconsin after a 1200 mile flight from florida when this all happened. Needless to say, I think that the BIG GUY UPSTAIRS was sitting on my shoulder. At this time, Lycoming had just introduced their IO390A1B6  210 hp engine, so I spent my kids inheretance and bought a NEW engine from Barrette Performance Aircraft engines in Tulsa.  I am happy with this engine.  It has real power increase over the 10-1 360. I noticed a average speed increase of approx 10 mmph and a climb increase of approx 500 plus fpm.  Average fuel consumption at 23/23 manifold press/rpm is 9 gallons per hour.

  If you wish to discuss this, please do not use internet,because I do not have time for replies. You may call me (at) 920 619 6968.

 Dick Martin

 RV8 N233M

 the fast one

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au (rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au)> wrote:

 [quote]   I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.  Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?

  

 What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to aircraft engines?

  

 Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?

  

 Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.

  

 Many thanks in anticipation.

  

 Regards

  

 Patrick Pulis

 Adelaide, South Australia

  

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

There are a few of us running dual LSE ignitions and very happy with the result.  As has been pointed out, there is huge benefit from the first electronic ignition, very little with the second.  If you do go with dual electronic ignitions just recognize the dependence on electrons flowing.  There are multiple ways to mitigate this ranging from a simple, small second battery setup to the more sophisticated AeroElectric Z-14 architecture.  Once you've addressed that the reliability is at least as high as magnetos.  I for one am extremely happy with my setup.



I'd also point out that it's likely that you'll have an all electric panel of some sort and will want some sort of way to mitigate electrical failure anyway so it's not much of a leap to include dual electronic ignitions into that equation.



If you get an engine already equipped with new mags, I'd be inclined to just replace one with electronic and keep the new mag in place.  When that hits OH time just swap it out with the one that the electronic ignition replaced.  When you hit the 1000 hour mark and it's time for the second mag to need OH you'll be in a much better position to evaluate from your own experience.

With regard to the pistons - given the current fuel situation I'd stick with 8.5:1.  If you go higher you'll be increasing the potential that a replacement fuel won't have sufficient detonation margins.  The gain from installing slightly higher compression pistons is minimal however if there's an issue that requires you to drop back down to 8.5:1 you'd have to pull all cylinders, replace pistons & rings, rehone, reinstall cylinders and go through a break-in again.  Up to you to decide whether it's worth it.



Bob

N442PM

coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:46 am Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for the lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it’s worked great.  Everything I had read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus.  A lot of folks are happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.  

   

Good luck,  

Marcus  

40286  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis

 Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

       

I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.  Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?  

    

   

    

What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to aircraft engines?  

    

   

    

Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?  

    

   

    

Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.  

    

   

    

Many thanks in anticipation.  

    

   

    

Regards  

    

   

    

Patrick Pulis  

    

Adelaide, South Australia  

    

   

    

   

  

  



      	  Quote: 	
		    	
          - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much    --> http://www.matronic=================[/b][/quote]               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web    --> http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'>             - List Contribution Web Site style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  Thank you for your generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'>                              -Matt style='mso-spacerun:yes'>   --> http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] [b]

bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:49 am Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems.  In my experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them a little hotter.  

   

Also, whether you believe the manufacturer’s claims or not, I think we need to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits and drawbacks of the system.  You might call Larry Vetterman (www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running the G3 in his RV.  I know Larry, and know he’s tried every electronic ignition system out there.  He has no financial interest in G3.  When he finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power settings and general ease of use…I listen.  He had previously installed, tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.  

   

Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3.  That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can easily still bolt on the G3.  Is anyone on this list running the G3?  

   

Bob Brown  

40871  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

   

 I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for the lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it’s worked great.  Everything I had read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus.  A lot of folks are happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.  

   

Good luck,  

Marcus  

40286  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis

 Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

       

I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.  Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?  

    

   

    

What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to aircraft engines?  

    

   

    

Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?  

    

   

    

Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.  

    

   

    

Many thanks in anticipation.  

    

   

    

Regards  

    

   

    

Patrick Pulis  

    

Adelaide, South Australia  

    

   

    

   

  

  



      	  Quote: 	
		    	
  

<pr          - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much    --> http://www.matronic=================  

- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web    --> http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'>            - List Contribution Web Site style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  Thank you for your generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'>                              -Matt style='mso-spacerun:yes'>   --> http://www.matronics.com/c=   	  Quote: 	
		      	
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       [quote][b]

Jim Combs

Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Lexington, Ky

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

We have a Lightspeed on the top plugs with a magneto on the bottom plugs.

With a long taxi to the runway from the hanger, our procedure is to lean

aggressively after startup.  In 150+ hours I have never had any issues with

plug fouling.  To date, the Lightspeed has been excellent with no issues.



We start on the Lightspeed (Left).



Jim Combs

N312F



On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Bob and Karen Brown <bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com

 	  Quote: 	
		   wrote:


	


[quote]  Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic

 ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper

 plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems.  In my

 experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them

 a little hotter.



 Also, whether you believe the manufacturer’s claims or not, I think we need

 to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits

 and drawbacks of the system.  You might call Larry Vetterman (

 www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running

 the G3 in his RV.  I know Larry, and know he’s tried every electronic

 ignition system out there.  He has no financial interest in G3.  When he

 finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power

 settings and general ease of use…I listen.  He had previously installed,

 tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.



 Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would

 certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3

_________________
RV-10 -> N312F - Flying as of 12/2008

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

Bob  

   

Being a old A&P mechanic and have extensive experience with mag’s and electronic ignitions on a Smith mini plane we race at Reno every year.  I am going with the G3 system on my RV-10.  We are running the 3rd generation of E-Mags on the biplane we race and now they seem to be doing very well.    

   

The first season with electronic ignitions were p-mags and we maydayed  every race. The engine  broke the starter mount it shook so hard.  We now have dual e-mags and on version 3 and they run great so far with 2 full seasons on them.  

   

I have talked to the owner of G-3 and was very impressed and the design and redundancy makes total since to me.  

   

Just my 2 cents worth.  

     

John G. Cumins  

  

40864 emp 95% done wings kit on the shelf      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob and Karen Brown

 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 8:49 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

   

Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems.  In my experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them a little hotter.  

   

Also, whether you believe the manufacturer’s claims or not, I think we need to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits and drawbacks of the system.  You might call Larry Vetterman (www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running the G3 in his RV.  I know Larry, and know he’s tried every electronic ignition system out there.  He has no financial interest in G3.  When he finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power settings and general ease of use…I listen.  He had previously installed, tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.  

   

Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3.  That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can easily still bolt on the G3.  Is anyone on this list running the G3?  

   

Bob Brown  

40871  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

   

 I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for the lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it’s worked great.  Everything I had read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus.  A lot of folks are happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.  

   

Good luck,  

Marcus  

40286  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis

 Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

       

I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.  Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?  

    

   

    

What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to aircraft engines?  

    

   

    

Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?  

    

   

    

Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.  

    

   

    

Many thanks in anticipation.  

    

   

    

Regards  

    

   

    

Patrick Pulis  

    

Adelaide, South Australia  

    

   

    

   

  

  



      	  Quote: 	
		    	
  

<pr          - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much    --> http://www.matronic=================  

- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web    --> http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'>            - List Contribution Web Site style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  Thank you for your generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'>                              -Matt style='mso-spacerun:yes'>   --> http://www.matronics.com/c=   	  Quote: 	
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       [quote][b]

bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

That’s good info, I was just wondering why one would run the E-ignition on the top instead of the bottom.  Is there an advantage in running it that way or a reason not to run it the other way?  

   

Bob Brown  

40871  

   

Do not archive  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs

 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:38 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

   

We have a Lightspeed on the top plugs with a magneto on the bottom plugs.  With a long taxi to the runway from the hanger, our procedure is to lean aggressively after startup.  In 150+ hours I have never had any issues with plug fouling.  To date, the Lightspeed has been excellent with no issues.

 

 We start on the Lightspeed (Left).

 

 Jim Combs

 N312F     

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Bob and Karen Brown <bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com (bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com)> wrote:      

Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems.  In my experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them a little hotter.  

   

Also, whether you believe the manufacturer’s claims or not, I think we need to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits and drawbacks of the system.  You might call Larry Vetterman (www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running the G3 in his RV.  I know Larry, and know he’s tried every electronic ignition system out there.  He has no financial interest in G3.  When he finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power settings and general ease of use…I listen.  He had previously installed, tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.  

   

Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3.  That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can easily still bolt on the G3.  Is anyone on this list running the G3?  

   

Bob Brown  

40871  

   

Do not archive  

   

  

  

  

       [quote][b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

Coming out of hibernation on this one.  

   

Whether the topic is "Safety of Glass Cockpit" or "To Magneto or Not To"  those of you choosing to deviate need to make a personal choice based on your risk quotient.  Too many builders go with the newest, sexiest or golly forbid - the cheapest.  In that journey to an all too quick of a conclusion often reliability is downplayed.  Most RV-10 pilots are not ready for a catastrophic engine loss during flight, the flight of the aircraft to a safe walk away landing or what the hell caused that, question as your anatomy puckers?  

   

If your knowledgeable, if its experimental and if you choose well, then this topic is not a big deal. Slick Mags and their AD last year hit a lot of owners by surprise.  Many have waited for a six banger P Mag option as long as Eggenfelner/GAMI/Epic/Eclipse and others come out with new alternatives, others are disciples of electronic ignitions and purport to drink the Kool-Aid of one or two at a time.  They are all within acceptable reliability range. I have yet to read the consequence of a lightning strike on your choice.  My first flight in April of 1973 was a direct hit on take-off as a Zero Time Student Pilot.  

   

After 36 years (oops 37 got to make way for the kids out there), I find myself dealing with Lightning Strikes on Part 121 Turbo-props many nights while the RV-10 builder community sleeps.  We almost have an unlimited budget, whatever time it takes to remediate the damage "Safe and Compliant" and a score of trained professionals who know what they are doing (oh yeh, and we ALL hate repairing lightning strikes).  Whether it is spark ignition systems, composite charring, melted rivets, zapped electronic EFIS or wiring systems I am waiting for someone to do a T chart on the pluses + and minuses - of each.  There have been a lot of good and a few strong points made here. So far the noise of the crowd is not real clear on the Risks… (Except Kelly and is 99.994% calculation).  At work, we deal with the 00.006% time that it all goes to shit.  May none of you ever have to.  

   

Keep your skills sharp, fly often, land safe and question yourself often  

   

John Cox  

40600  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob and Karen Brown

 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 8:49 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

   

Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems.  In my experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them a little hotter.  

   

Also, whether you believe the manufacturer’s claims or not, I think we need to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits and drawbacks of the system.  You might call Larry Vetterman (www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running the G3 in his RV.  I know Larry, and know he’s tried every electronic ignition system out there.  He has no financial interest in G3.  When he finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power settings and general ease of use…I listen.  He had previously installed, tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.  

   

Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3.  That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can easily still bolt on the G3.  Is anyone on this list running the G3?  

   

Bob Brown  

40871  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

   

 I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for the lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it’s worked great.  Everything I had read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus.  A lot of folks are happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.  

   

Good luck,  

Marcus  

40286  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis

 Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento  

  

  

       

I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.  Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?  

    

   

    

What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to aircraft engines?  

    

   

    

Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?  

    

   

    

Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.  

    

   

    

Many thanks in anticipation.  

    

   

    

Regards  

    

   

    

Patrick Pulis  

    

Adelaide, South Australia  

    

   

    

   

  

  



      	  Quote: 	
		    	
  

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dmaib(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

I think the reason many, if not most, of us put the Lightspeed on the top is that it is considerably easier to run the wiring and mount the hardware on top of the engine. 1 1/2 years and 220 hours with LS on top and mag on bottom with no problems.



$.02 worth

David Maib

40559

flying



 



 



On Apr 9, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Bob and Karen Brown wrote:

That’s good info, I was just wondering why one would run the E-ignition on the top instead of the bottom.  Is there an advantage in running it that way or a reason not to run it the other way?

 

Bob Brown

40871

 

Do not archive

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jim Combs

Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:38 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento



 



We have a Lightspeed on the top plugs with a magneto on the bottom plugs.  With a long taxi to the runway from the hanger, our procedure is to lean aggressively after startup.  In 150+ hours I have never had any issues with plug fouling.  To date, the Lightspeed has been excellent with no issues.



We start on the Lightspeed (Left).



Jim Combs

N312FOn Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Bob and Karen Brown <bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com (bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com)> wrote:

Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems.  In my experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them a little hotter.

 

Also, whether you believe the manufacturer’s claims or not, I think we need to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits and drawbacks of the system.  You might call Larry Vetterman (www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running the G3 in his RV.  I know Larry, and know he’s tried every electronic ignition system out there.  He has no financial interest in G3.  When he finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power settings and general ease of use…I listen.  He had previously installed, tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.

 

Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3.  That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can easily still bolt on the G3.  Is anyone on this list running the G3?

 

Bob Brown

40871

 

Do not archive

 





 	  Quote: 	
		  



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jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

A few months ago, I didn't think G3 supported 6 cylinders. Looking 

again, i still don't see any support other than for 4 cylinders. Does 

anyone know any different?



http://www.g3ignition.com/order.html



Jae

40533

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

FWIW, I just got off the phone with Thomas Shpakow, who owns G3.  He said

his system doesn't care how many cylinders (4, 5, 6, 9, etc), since his

system runs on top of a magneto.  It's not changing the timing, only

boosting the spark.  He said he's sold 7 systems to RV-10 builders and has

been running a 6 cyl version on his plane since he came up with it two years

ago.



Bob Brown

40871

Do not archive



--

n277dl

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 49
Location: Muscatine IA

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

Yes, it'll support 6 cyl. Doesn't replace the mags. I've installed the G3 but not started the engine yet. 



 Hopefully flying in the next couple months.....



Doug

RV7A flying 850hrs

RV10 Fuse painted and at the hangar, installing panel, trying to get wings painted....

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

According to the owner it does support 6 cyl 



John G. Cumins

--

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

Thanks. I stand corrected. In fact, in the current price list PDF file, it does mention 6 cylinder harnesses, etc.



http://www.g3ignition.com/currentprice11.01.09.pdf



Well, that's certainly nice to know. Hopefully, those 7 rv-10 builders can provide some success reports for future reference.



Jae



 	  jcumins(at)jcis.net wrote: 	
		  According to the owner it does support 6 cyl 



John G. Cumins

--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: To Magento - Or Not To Magento

It would be even better if they were able to do a 3 leg GPS run with

G3 enabled, followed by one with it disabled, on stock magnetos, so we

could have a real world estimate of power difference.

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 7:19 PM, jchang10 <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Thanks. I stand corrected. In fact, in the current price list PDF file, it does mention 6 cylinder harnesses, etc.

 http://www.g3ignition.com/currentprice11.01.09.pdf

 Well, that's certainly nice to know. Hopefully, those 7 rv-10 builders can provide some success reports for future reference.

 Jae

 jcumins(at)jcis.net wrote:

> According to the owner it does support 6 cyl

>

> John G. Cumins

> --

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293720#293720

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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