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Polished Props

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barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: Polished Props

Gang,



Just wondering if anyone has had any "official" interaction with the FAA regarding polished props on the CJ?  One of our aircraft just got "tagged" and  I'd like some sort of precedent when I deal with this, if it's out there.



Thanks!



Barry

_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: Polished Props

As you may recall my former ptop was polished. Never got a peep from  

the FAA at waivered airspace events. My undestanding has always been  

that experimental aircraft with non-US props need not comply.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2010, at 3:31 PM, "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com 

 > wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 >

 Gang,

 Just wondering if anyone has had any "official" interaction with the  

 FAA regarding polished props on the CJ?  One of our aircraft just  

 got "tagged" and  I'd like some sort of precedent when I deal with  

 this, if it's out there.

 Thanks!

 Barry

 --------

 Barry Hancock

 Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.

 (909) 606-4444

 www.worldwidewarbirds.com

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296619#296619

Dale

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Polished Props

Lots of T-28's and P-51's with polished props.

pilotdog57(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: Polished Props

Maybe they think you have a V530 and didn't understand how you got the wood so shiney!

---

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: Polished Props

Barry,

The aircraft which was just exported to Belgium had a polished prop on it.  Was done while it was owned by Dennis Jones, he sold the aircraft to Bob Hanner of Chelan WA, who we helped sell it into Belgium.  They never mentioned anything about a problem with the feds. 



Best,

Doug



On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>

 

 As you may recall my former ptop was polished. Never got a peep from the FAA at waivered airspace events. My undestanding has always been that experimental aircraft with non-US props need not comply.

 

 Sent from my iPhone



 

 On May 3, 2010, at 3:31 PM, "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)> wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>

 

 Gang,

 

 Just wondering if anyone has had any "official" interaction with the FAA regarding polished props on the CJ?  One of our aircraft just got "tagged" and  I'd like some sort of precedent when I deal with this, if it's out there.

  

 Thanks!

 

 Barry

 

 --------

 Barry Hancock

 Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.

 (909) 606-4444

 www.worldwidewarbirds.com

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296619#296619

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

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[b]

hkgibby(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: Polished Props

Barry-

  

 My CJ stock prop is polished on the front and was just overhauled by Palm Beach Propeller and balanced by Curtis at George Baker (New Smyrna, FL); logbook entries and sign-offs by two A & P's as good to go.  Takes more work to keep the corrosion (intergranular is most common) under control (Nuvite "cut C" and "final finish" polish work well), but I have had no FAA folks make an issue of it and I was ramped at the self-serve pump at Herlong (HEG) here in Jacksonville earlier this year.  They didn't seem to care that I was experimental;  just wanted to see license, medical, registration and C.A.W..  Orlando FSDO seems pretty reasonable in my few dealings with them (knock on wood!).  Give us a visit if you are in the SE.

  

 Hoot

 Hank Gibson

904-738-3240 Mobile

904-213-1760 Home

hkgibby(at)yahoo.com (hkgibby(at)yahoo.com)

hkgibson(at)fnf.com (hkgibson(at)fnf.com)

 hgibson(at)flightworks.com (hgibson(at)flightworks.com)

--- On Mon, 5/3/10, barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com>

Subject: Polished Props

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 6:31 PM



 --> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>



Gang,



Just wondering if anyone has had any "official" interaction with the FAA regarding polished props on the CJ?  One of our aircraft just got "tagged" and  I'd like some sort of precedent when I deal with this, if it's out there.



Thanks!



Barry



--------

Barry Hancock

Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.

(909) 606-4444

www.worldwidewarbirds.com





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtp;--> http://forums.matronbsp;          - List Contribution Web Site -



	


               [quote][b]

barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Polished Props

Thanks for the replies, gang. While anecdotal, they are ammunition for my case.  One of my A&P's will sign it off and I can point to no documentation in the prop maintenance or overhaul manual that says you can't polish the prop.  



These are the same guys that came out to our facility, on a Saturday (time and a half), two guys came, used a company vehicle.....all to see some paperwork they *already had* and or could have easily received via fax.  What a racket....these are our tax dollars at work, my friends.



Happy Flying!



Barry

_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: Polished Props

Has there been any regulatory or advisory bulletin,etc. released by the FAA 

re: polishing of propellers blades?



The same "rumour" is rampant in Canada as well and I cannot recall receiving 

any notice from TC on the subject.



Walt



---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: Polished Props

I wonder if it stems from the "major repair or alternation" statement in the Operating Limitations?  I think it's a stretch to consider polishing a propeller a major change.  But then again, they have the power and as the FAA inspector says, "We're not happy until you're not happy."  I believe the OL's state that the local FSDO must be notified of a major repair or alteration.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From FAA Order 8130.2x, change x:

(21) The cognizant FSDO must be notified, and its response received in writing, prior to flying
	


this aircraft after incorporation of a major change as defined by § 21.93.

(Applicability: All)



21.93 says:

(a) In addition to changes in type design specified in paragraph (b) of this section, changes in type design are classified as minor and major. A "minor change" is one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product. All other changes are "major changes" (except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section).



Paragraph (b) has nothing in it that would apply.



Dennis



---

Dale

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Polished Props

The FAA had determined the polishing of a propeller on a [b]certified[/b] aircraft to render the part unairworthy.  It removes the corrosion protection that the manufacture has installed.  Since the anodizing is part of the manufacturing process and the blade is certified with the protection installed you can not remove it or if you do you need to replace it during overhaul.  Since we do not have certificated aircraft in the US the auto plug conversions/oil filters autopilots , Dynons and all the other stuff would render the plane unairworthy the same way

wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: Polished Props

Thanks Dale;



How has the FAA imparted this dubious bit of wisdom?  Have they issued an 

Airworthiness Directive,  an Advisory Circular or ??????

I have had no luck finding it but am not really familiar with the FAA's 

system.  Also could not find it in Transport Canada's website where I am 

supposed to be familiar. I will call my favorite prop. shop and find out.



Anodizing, if still in use by the manufacturers, is generally removed at the 

first overhaul and as far as I know very few, if any, propeller overhaul 

shops are set up to re-anodize.  Paint is the accepted method.



Walt





---

Dale

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Polished Props

http://luscombesilvaire.info/endowment/pop_topics/propellor_mx.htm



This is a good read with information on where to find more topics.

I personally think the inspector used their wide latitude on tagging a

polished prop on experimental aircraft.

racemech11

Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 10

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Polished Props

For certified aircraft, surface treatment of a component goes back to the overhaul manual for that component. 



For a prop, the manufacture usually has a procedure for what and how the surface is prepped and completed. If the manual, in the overhaul instructions do not list polishing as a certified surface treatment, than it is not approved and would be unserviceable. 



I have several customers that have polished props and when the prop goes to the shop, they will only do an IRAN (inspect and repair as necessary) not an overhaul. For them to legally put that overhaul sign off on it, they have to prep the blades in accordance with the overhaul manual, which includes painting. I know that MT prop's, which are a certified prop has a component manual, and I know they are composite and can't be polished, but they call out a certain brand of paint and the paint code for it, so to overhaul it you have to use that name brand paint and that paint code. 



Now to experimental aircraft. If your operation limitations state that you will maintain the aircraft IAW part 43, this is going to drive you back to a component maintenance manual and any procedure listed. So if, in this case a prop, has as approved component maintenance manual and it calls out a surface prep procedure and does not list polishing, it is essentially unairworthy. 



Most IA's will annual an aircraft with a polished prop and not see it as a problem, but in reality it is not airworthy.

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