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Stupid question

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Paul Folbrecht

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 14

Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:45 am Post subject: Stupid question

Do you need a taildragger endorsement to fly a Kolb (MkIII) as a light-sport?



I am a 525h PP, looking at Kolb, Challenger, Sky Ranger...



do not archive

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question

Paul, since the MK III is a tailwheel aircraft, you need the tailwheel endorsement.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

Paul Folbrecht

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 14

Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid question

 	  Ralph B wrote: 	
		  Paul, since the MK III is a tailwheel aircraft, you need the tailwheel endorsement.



Ralph 	




That makes a lot of sense.



I've no problem with the endorsement, save that I'd rather do it in my AC which will not likely be possible since it'd probably be experimental.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: Stupid question

At 04:18 PM 5/12/2010, Paul Folbrecht wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  I've no problem with the endorsement, save that I'd rather do it in my AC which will not likely be possible since it'd probably be experimental. 	


 No reason why you can't do it in an experimental.



 -Dana

 --

  If you glue a piece of toast, butter side up, to your cat's back, and drop it from a high place, which way will it land?    [quote][b]

aero(at)rwaltman.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject: Stupid question

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Paul, since the MK III is a tailwheel aircraft,

>   you need the tailwheel endorsement.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   I've no problem with the endorsement, save that

 I'd rather do it in my AC which will not likely

 be possible since it'd probably be experimental.


	


Nothing precludes you from getting your endorsement in an experimental, as

long as the hours in the experimental are free. ("...  not for

compensation or for hire.")

You just need to find an instructor willing to teach you in the Kolb.



The Catch-22 is that, if you are building it, you need to complete the

forty Phase-I test hours before being able to fly legally with two people

on board.

So you would have to get somebody else to complete Phase-I, before taking

lessons on your plane.

Roberto Waltman

gliderx5

Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 203

Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: Stupid question

Actually, the FARs state that you can fly any LSA within your category and class rating if you are Rec license or higher.  If you are PPSEL you can fly any LSA, above or below 87 kts, tricycle, tail dragger, or skis, without further endorsements.



Malcolm Morrison

---

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question

Malcolm,



From Part 61.31 I read the following:

(i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the following maneuvers and procedures:



(i) Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings;



(ii) Wheel landings (unless the manufacturer has recommended against such landings); and



(iii) Go-around procedures.



(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (i)(1) of this section is not required if the person logged pilot-in-command time in a tailwheel airplane before April 15, 1991.



Where does the NOT REQUIRED part appear in the FARS, except for the grandfathered tailwheel pilots who logged time before 1991?

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

gliderx5

Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 203

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:48 pm Post subject: Stupid question

Thom



     Normal   0                         MicrosoftInternetExplorer4   <![endif]-->     /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:10.0pt; 	font-family:"Times New Roman";}  <![endif]-->  

I must admit that I find the sport pilot rules to be some of the most confusing rules that I have ever read.  Below is my interpretation and I believe that it is correct, but I certainly see where someone might think otherwise.  

   

Part 61, Subpart J, 61.303, if you hold a (1) medical certificate, and you hold (ii) at least a recreational pilot certificate with a category and class rating, then you may operate (A) any light sport aircraft in that category and class, and (1) you do not have to hold any of the endorsements required by this subpart, nor do you have to comply with the limitations in 61.315.    

   

61.319 You may operate any aircraft within the category, class, and set for which you have endorsement. (but PPSEL does not need endorsements)

  

   

For single engine, land aircraft there are 6 sets (tricycle, tail wheel, and ski below 87 kts, and same 3 above 87 kts)  

   

So, when you put this together a PPSEL can fly any single engine land based LSA, in any set, without any further endorsements.  

   

61.31 is outside of subpart J and therefore does not apply.  

Malcolm

---

Paul Folbrecht

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 14

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid question

Interesting.  This is the reason I asked the question.  Anyway, IMO you'd be pretty foolish to teach yourself TG landing no matter how much tricycle time you have.  Anyway #2, my interest has moved from Kolb to Rans S-12.

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question

Malcom,



61.31 is outside Subpart J is the reason EVERY pilot DOES need the tailwheel endorsement to fly a tailwheel aircraft if they are not grandfathered with logged PIC time in a tailwheel aircraft before April 15, 1991.



Subpart J which deals with Sport Pilots says, as you stated, that a rec pilot or higher with current medical does not need any endorsements required by THIS SUBPART, i.e, SUBPART J. Since 61.31 (tailwheel endorsement requirement) is OUTSIDE SUBPART J, it is a requirement for ALL PILOTS who wish to act as PIC in a tailwheel aircraft, unless grandfathered.



I was quizzed on this by the DPE who did my CFI-SP check ride, and he explained it the way I just explained it.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:21 am Post subject: Stupid question

Pilots have a strange double standard;  they might have little trouble fudging on their income taxes or

sliding through a stop sign, but might hesitate to take the easy fix on the tailwheel "endorsement"

-If you had a PPL before April 1991,  find a blank space in your logbook,  determine a qualifying airplane,

preferably one that has been destroyed by now and stick in 15 minutes of PIC.  heh heh.

do not archive

(who's that BB guy anyhow?)



On 14, May 2010, at 6:34 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Malcom,

 

 61.31 is outside Subpart J is the reason EVERY pilot DOES need the tailwheel endorsement to fly a tailwheel aircraft if they are not grandfathered with logged PIC time in a tailwheel aircraft before April 15, 1991.

 

 Subpart J which deals with Sport Pilots says, as you stated, that a rec pilot or higher with current medical does not need any endorsements required by THIS SUBPART, i.e, SUBPART J. Since 61.31 (tailwheel endorsement requirement) is OUTSIDE SUBPART J, it is a requirement for ALL PILOTS who wish to act as PIC in a tailwheel aircraft, unless grandfathered.

 

 I was quizzed on this by the DPE who did my CFI-SP check ride, and he explained it the way I just explained it.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY (9G0)

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x32

 

 

 Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

 - Edward Abbey

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297689#297689

apilot(at)surewest.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: Stupid question

For those who wish to teach themselves how to do a crosswind landing, I recommend the portion of the King video series which shows in detail how to do it safely.  Even though it uses a Cherokee to demonstrate, it is exactly correct for a taildragger as far as adverse yaw control is concerned.  An airplane is an airplane when it comes to 3 axis control.  Poorly executed crosswind landings in a Cherokee can get one off of the runway and even on their backs if taken to extreme.  In a taildragger, a ground loop can be expected or maybe just a wing on the runway.  Much of the technique is based on one's understand of the benefits of adverse yaw.  The more adverse yaw an airplane produces, the easier a crosswind landing will be.    Vic

---- Original message ----

 	  Quote: 	
		  Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 17:53:10 -0700

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (on behalf of "Paul Folbrecht" <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net>)

Subject: Re: Stupid question  

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Interesting.  This is the reason I asked the question.  Anyway, IMO you'd be pretty foolish to teach yourself TG landing no matter how much tricycle time you have.  Anyway #2, my interest has moved from Kolb to Rans S-12.

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297667#297667

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question

If you know how to do a forward slip, you know how to handle a x-wind when landing or taking off. Of course, which side you slip towards makes a huge difference in outcome .

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:01 am Post subject: Stupid question

Tom -



I know how to do a forward slip. What I have trouble with are backward slips. :>)

Arty



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm

 

 "Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                       Helen Keller

 

 "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."



--- On Sat, 5/15/10, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote]

From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Stupid question

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, May 15, 2010, 6:52 AM



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <[url=/mc/compose?to=riddletr(at)gmail.com]riddletr(at)gmail.com[/url]>



If you know how to do a forward slip, you know how to handle a x-wind when landing or taking off. Of course, which side you slip towards makes a huge difference in outcome .



--------

Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A #1574

Tennessee Prop 64x32

Drink Quality Rule #1: The more  adjectives a drink name has, the worse it is and the further it is from the real thing.

- Thom Riddle





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N=          -> http://foru             - List Contribution We                     &nbs;-->  [quote][b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question

Arty,



I think backward slips are aerobatic maneuvers, as opposed to doing a forward slip backasswords for x-winds, which is a bend-your-airplane maneuver .



do not archive

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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