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aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
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 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: Russians vs. Smash |
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Mark -
We are talking from a different perspective. I am talking from a fiscal perspective. While individual pilots in Russia may kick my ass, they are not funded to play with their toys the way we are. Anytime you are in any military intel briefing, this will be in the discussion if you are talking tactics. I didn't make this up, this has been a fact long before I was ever in the military.
They have the nice toys and good pilots, but no $$ to be as good as US/Brit pilots. That is an undisputable fact. Sorry you thought it was bravado. I don't have time for ego, I deal in reality.
Smash
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
| Quote: | I was surprised to see Smash say what she did about the Russians. Sergei would toast her cookies in any 1 v 1 she ever got the balls to fly in. I have flown with our fighter pilots... and I have flown with him. He'd eat them alive.
I've have met other Russian pilots. I have seen them fly. They are fearless, aggressive, loyal, and I respect the SHIT out of them, and would be seriously concerned about going head to head with them in anything other than the F-22. Their new Sukhoi beats the F-16 as the F-16 does an F-4 Phantom.
My comments are based on my personal observations and personal interactions with Russians met in the Aerobatic and YAK world. Not on any material I have come across in my job. It it was, it would not be talked about here ... at ALL.
Notice, I do not talk about Electronic Warfare.
Mark
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BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: Russians vs. Smash |
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Smash,
I have been in Intell Briefings from 1969 until present day. In all reality, let me please retract any comments about who would kick who's ass in a dog fight. They were unnecessary and uncalled for. I apologize.
As for briefing tactics, I am very well aware of what is briefed. But I have this annoying habit of not always believing everything I am told. More annoying than that, I tend to believe what I personally experience rather than treat intell as some sort of gospel. That's just my perspective, but you know what? You want to bet the farm on the accuracy of the Intell that is being fed to you.... please.... go right ahead. Excuse me if I do not.
I have talked at length to various Russians about how their pilot programs work. How a pilot could start out, which direction he would end up going and how, and once in the military, how they trained. Most of the Russians that are not American citizens LOVE to talk to you about these very things.
Thus I have come to believe that the only "undisputable fact" is that anyone who relies on "Intell" to be perfectly accurate is making a really big mistake, and this is most especially true when it comes time for people to actually start shooting bullets at each other. How many Russian pilots have you flown with or talked to Smash?
Take care,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
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aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: Russians vs. Smash |
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Honestly, I don't even know why this is a discusion, but since here it is...I just spent the last three years of my life at NORAD, where before 9-11, the only thing we did was watch for bad guys (FSU aircraft) coming over the pole. Rather than drop that mission, we just expanded it to the domestic air side as well. Now, I think that gives me at least oh, I don't know...an ounce of credibility as far as knowing how much Russians do and do not fly. We are "friends" now, but we still keep them honest if you get me what I mean.
As far as intel goes, you are right, it is only as reliable as the source. But, what you can draw from intel is trends. Are they doing routine mx on the nuke site, why yes, it's Monday at 8am, or wait a second, they don't normally open the doors on a Friday, maybe we should up the pucker factor a notch.
I am sorry that you have taken this so personally, but I am merely trying to state facts as they exist today. They just don't get the sorties we do or the numbers we do. Yes, they have incredible machines and I hope that the next air war we fight they will take those incredible a/c and use them to help us schwack the real bad guys out there.
Again, don't know why this became a pissing contest, about who has flown with who etc....in fact I am pretty sure that is one of the things you were complaining about in your earlier post...bravado? Haven't flown with any, talked with several FSU pilots, but none that were actually born in what is today Russia, except when the head of their version of Defense Secretary visited us at NORAD, but he wasn't too interested in idle chit chat and we were too busy make sure we didn't have anything classified lying about.
So, if it will make every one happy again, I will say that I hope no other country either Russia or India or Iraq or anybody ever shoots at me cuz they are all shit hot pilots and all potentially better than the fighters that are protecting me as a big fat kid in the sky. Was that politically correct enough? Sorry, had to be a smart alec! But really, I don't want them shooting at me, I heard that hurts.
Smash
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
| Quote: | Smash,
I have been in Intell Briefings from 1969 until present day. In all reality, let me please retract any comments about who would kick who's ass in a dog fight. They were unnecessary and uncalled for. I apologize.
As for briefing tactics, I am very well aware of what is briefed. But I have this annoying habit of not always believing everything I am told. More annoying than that, I tend to believe what I personally experience rather than treat intell as some sort of gospel. That's just my perspective, but you know what? You want to bet the farm on the accuracy of the Intell that is being fed to you.... please.... go right ahead. Excuse me if I do not.
I have talked at length to various Russians about how their pilot programs work. How a pilot could start out, which direction he would end up going and how, and once in the military, how they trained. Most of the Russians that are not American citizens LOVE to talk to you about these very things.
Thus I have come to believe that the only "undisputable fact" is that anyone who relies on "Intell" to be perfectly accurate is making a really big mistake, and this is most especially true when it comes time for people to actually start shooting bullets at each other. How many Russian pilots have you flown with or talked to Smash?
Take care,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
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dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: Russians vs. Smash |
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Smash and the rest of you perpetuating this thread - would you please be kind enough take it off the Yak List! This is getting ridiculous and clearly not related to anything pertaining to Yak's or CJ's.
Thank you
Dennis
[quote] ---
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aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: Russians vs. Smash |
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Trust me I'm done.
Sorry, thought it was a constructive conversation at first. Too bad it degenerated into something that doesn't even make sense anymore.
Smash
"A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Smash and the rest of you perpetuating this thread - would you please be kind enough take it off the Yak List! This is getting ridiculous and clearly not related to anything pertaining to Yak's or CJ's.
Thank you
Dennis
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ggg6(at)att.net
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: Russians vs. Smash |
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Thank You Dennis:
Would you children with your junk go find another sandbox to play in, You are turning this into a "CB RADIO CHANNEL" and that is kind of trash that ruined that mode of communication.. This was not ment for your childish Jibber.. Not One of You people are going to shoot down anyone with Your 52's, or CJ's, so PLEASE GO AWAY, unless You have something to contribute the the purpose that this site was created for...
Gary Gabbard
Las Vegas, NV.
CJ N22YK
[quote]-------------- Original message from "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com>: --------------
Smash and the rest of you perpetuating this thread - would you please be kind enough take it off the Yak List! This is getting ridiculous and clearly not related to anything pertaining to Yak's or CJ's.
Thank you
Dennis
[quote] ---
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