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AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

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gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

 	  Quote: 	
		  Matt Dralle wrote:

Its a good cause, though, if

you value your right to fly in the US.

  >Matt
	


   

  I was once a AOPA guy 20 years ago but quit for several reasons.

   

  However I did recently hear that the "AOPA adviser" was claiming 

homebuilts are such a liability that if you sell one you should part

it out. I just want to say there has NEVER been a lawsuit against 

any builder. Absolutly NO legal precedence.

   

  Sure we are liable for everything. Your dog bites someone you can 

go to jail. However if you get a lawyer to draw up a liability release, 

sometimes called a "hold harmless waiver", chance of lawsuit is 

slim. If you knowingly did not put the spar bolts in, or some other 

nonsense, yes you might have negligence problem. A safe RV, 

built to plans, not likely to be a problem. 

   

  Again NEVER happened, no lawsuits and AOPA is WRONG 

if this is their claim. 

   

  I would love someone else to write or ask the AOPA adviser the 

same question.

   

  Any way I don't think AOPA supports Kit planes or homebuilts 

because it is counter to there main customers aircraft manufactures 

and corporate operators. Just read their magazine. It is like a 

corporate aviation magazine. Not saying they don't do good for all of 

us, I am just saying that they are somewhat impotent or ineffective, 

but it is better than nothing I guess. After 10 years I dropped them 

about 10 years ago. They sent me crap for years trying to get me back.

   

  George

   



		

---------------------------------

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

 	  Quote: 	
		     Any way I don't think AOPA supports Kit planes or homebuilts 

 because it is counter to there main customers aircraft manufactures 

 and corporate operators. Just read their magazine. It is like a 

 corporate aviation magazine. Not saying they don't do good for all of 

 us, I am just saying that they are somewhat impotent or ineffective, 

 but it is better than nothing I guess. After 10 years I dropped them 

 about 10 years ago. They sent me crap for years trying to get me back.


	


I think that if there were no AOPA, or a similar organization,

our right to fly our GA aircraft would be severely curtailed,

or eliminated.  I think their dues are a bargain, for what they

provide us.  They're not perfect, but who or what is?



They say they have over 400,000 members, which is excellent.

Anyone know what percentage are flying or building homebuilt

aircraft?  I'd guess it's pretty small, say 20,000(?)

They've got to keep as many of their members as happy as possible

with their magazine and expos.



Defending the right to fly is the one thing that is common

amongst us all, whether we are flying a homebuilt or a

personal jet.  We all need to stand together to defend our

freedom and liberty.  I'm not worried about a "terrorist" taking

my freedom and liberty, I'm worried about my government doing it!



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

do not archive

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

"Just read their magazine. It is like a 

corporate aviation magazine. Not saying they don't do good for all of 

us, I am just saying that they are somewhat impotent or ineffective, 

but it is better than nothing I guess."



Have you read the EAA magazine lately?

Dale Ensing

do not archive

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: Re: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone

There are many things I do not like about the aopa.



1. Every publication, web page etc is filled with 50% content of "Phil Boyer says" Phil Boyer does" etc. I think there is a rule that every simple sentence must mention Phil Boyer 7 times.



2. Unsolicited phone calls during the evening as mentioned some peskier than others.



3. Their seeming lack of support for experimentals.



Having said all that they will continue to recieve my support as they do a good service for all of us.



An entities 1st responsability is to survive and a good way to do this is cater to your sponsors.

_________________
Milt

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

I once offered to write an article for AOPA on the use of alternative 

engines in aircraft - absolutely no interest, said their readership was not 

interested - which clearly pointed out that I for one did not belong in an 

organization that had no interest in my interest.



EAA has certainly slipped far down the Commercial slope and should really 

changed its name from the EAA or at least take the "E" out.  Having said 

that, I support it simply because I do believe that without the EAA and AOPA 

our freedom to fly would have been even more seriously curtailed ( than has 

occurred).



I do feel we must all be vigilant against the FAA's attempt to levy "users 

fees".  We paid taxes to support the government and its agencies, we should 

not be taxed again simply to compensate for bureaucratic inefficiency and 

mismanagement.  Look at Canada and take heed.



my 0.02 worth



Ed



Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com

---

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

Ollie Washburn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Central Florida

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

---

_________________
Ollie RV6-A & Rans S7S
Central FL

bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

Quoting gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com:

 	  Quote: 	

 >Matt Dralle wrote:

 >Its a good cause, though, if

 >you value your right to fly in the US.

   >Matt

   I was once a AOPA guy 20 years ago but quit for several reasons.

   However I did recently hear that the "AOPA adviser" was claiming

 homebuilts are such a liability that if you sell one you should part

 it out. I just want to say there has NEVER been a lawsuit against

 any builder. Absolutly NO legal precedence.

   Sure we are liable for everything. Your dog bites someone you can

 go to jail. However if you get a lawyer to draw up a liability release,

 sometimes called a "hold harmless waiver", chance of lawsuit is

 slim. If you knowingly did not put the spar bolts in, or some other

 nonsense, yes you might have negligence problem. A safe RV,

 built to plans, not likely to be a problem.

   Again NEVER happened, no lawsuits and AOPA is WRONG

 if this is their claim.

   I would love someone else to write or ask the AOPA adviser the

 same question.

   Any way I don't think AOPA supports Kit planes or homebuilts

 because it is counter to there main customers aircraft manufactures

 and corporate operators. Just read their magazine. It is like a

 corporate aviation magazine. Not saying they don't do good for all of

 us, I am just saying that they are somewhat impotent or ineffective,

 but it is better than nothing I guess. After 10 years I dropped them

 about 10 years ago. They sent me crap for years trying to get me back.

   George

   George: whoever you are;  I have been a member of AOPA for ever , at least

40 years..

    There is not any one that admits, AOPA,is the only organization that do

so much for General Aviation, No one, and we Experimental, are part of that..

     Aopa has the clout in Washington, do change things.  I do not have to

tell you the number of things they accomplish, for us....

      The magazine, yes, it is not "Experimental" per se....why, because,

the market is saturated with dozens, or such magazines... what would be the

purpose of adding to the already fillled segment...?

I am subscribed, to  three of this,, Custom Planes,  Kit Planes, and Pilot

magazine,  in addition to EAA, which I am also member since I started flying.

I wish you have named the person, that told you, about experimental no good...

I have talked thru the years, with many of them...no once they ever even

suggested, Experimental aircraft was unsafe,  only the builders are unsafe...

OH< by th way George,,,just this alone, makes my case...I recently got

my medical Certificate back,,,,and only because  AOPA.... ENOUGH SAID..

Bert

rv6a

Do nopt archive

 	  Quote: 	

 ---------------------------------

DanFM01(at)butter.toast.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

"Never" is a big word.  I can think of two lawsuits against builders just 

from casual reading of the news in the last few years.



Lawsuit 1:  In the John Denver crash, the newspapers reported that Denver's 

relatives sued several people including the builder.  I don't know the 

outcome however.



Lawsuit 2:  This one was somewhat complicated involving several sales and 

owners.

    Step 1: Individual A builds aircraft and flies for several years.  Sells 

aircraft to individual B.

    Step 2: B flies aircraft for several years and then sells aircraft to 

individual C.

    Step 3: C flies aircraft for several years.  Then one day he takes a 

friend's wife for a ride and performs low level aerobatics in view of the 

husband.  Crashes killing himself and friend's wife.

    Step 4: Husband sues individual A.

    Step 5: Individual A sues B.  I don't know the outcome of the lawsuits.



Homebuilders can be sued and are sued on liability issues.  Three factors 

seem to limit the number of lawsuits however.  One is that juries tend to be 

sceptical of claims from anyone who knowingly flies in a homebuilt aircraft. 

The second is that most builders don't have the big bucks to attract big 

name tort lawyers.  The third is that the builder often dies in the accident 

and his family has no reason to sue.



Lawsuits are a something to worry about.  Even if you win the lawsuit the 

legal fees can be devastating.  Avemco at one point offered converage for a 

year or two after the sale of a homebuilt, but I don't know if they still 

do.



---

jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

Personally, I feel that anyone should be allowed to assume  

responsibility for any risk they choose.  That is, if I buy a  

homebuilt, I should be able to assume the responsibility for making  

sure the homebuilt is safe to fly.  If the plane proves to be unsafe,  

then any crash is my fault, not that of the actual builder.



The caveat is that I should have ample opportunity and reason to  

verify safety.  If I give a ride in my purchased homebuilt, it's not  

reasonable to expect the person taking the ride to hire a mechanic to  

first check out my plane.  Thus, that person should hold me  

responsible.  However, because I assumed responsibility, then the  

original builder should be free and clear.



I know this isn't how it currently works.  But it's how it SHOULD work.



Write your congress people.  They have the power to change the system.



-Joe



do not archive

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

---

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone call

---

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

low pass

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Houston

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: AOPA hates homebuilts? (was donation-solicitation phone

AOPA does 10 times more than the EAA ever dreamed about for GA.  Heck, EAA doesn't even do that much for the experimental group any more, really.  They just seem to care about the big-money warbirds.  But that's another topic.



Anyone who flies any form of GA and doesn't support the AOPA is really  missing the boat.  I would even go so far as to say they are essentially GA free-loaders.  So what if their magazine is about corporate aviation!  1.  I don't pay my dues for the magazine, and 2. I actually think it's a pretty decent magazine.



GA is a big, fat easy target for the pandering morons in Congress who like to make useless laws in order to appear effective to their largely ignorant constituency.  The only way to fight the fire is with fire.  Your annual membership with AOPA does just that.  It's by far the best bang for your buck in advocacy for GA.



Back when I was freelance instructing, I would essentially require my students to join AOPA.  



I am an EAA and AOPA member.



Unless you want US GA European-style, Join AOPA.  Hopefully, before all our GA rights are legislated/DHS'd away.



do not archive



Bryan Jones

Houston, Texas

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