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sarg314(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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I just weighed my RV-6A plane this morning. It is "completely finished", which is to say all fairings are installed and it is painted, ready to go.
The total weight was 1076 lbs, which was about 50 more than I'd hoped. Although, I gather this is pretty typical for these planes. Van claims 985lbs. I can't imagine how you could reduce the weight 90 pounds. CG is quite good, though.
It has a Catto wooden prop (only 17 lbs) and no vacuum system. It's not an IFR panel although I do have a Dynon D10A, VM1000 engine monitor, plus the usual airspeed, VSI, altimeter, Lift Reserve Indicator, an SL-30 radio and Garmin transponder. The AFP fuel injection is probably a bit heavier than a carburetor. The interior is a D.J. Lauritsen cloth interior which I think is light.Â
Van's max gross is 1650. I gather (from just about everybody, including people who know what they are talking about) that this is a very conservative number. Am I correct that if I, as the builder, test the plane at, say 1700 lbs, that I can then placard it at 1700 max gross?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A nearly reay for first flight.
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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The biggest variable (usually) is paint weight. Especially with 2-part urethanes. That 'professional' (I mean really good looking, not done by a professional) paint job comes with a weight penalty. And pick up a bolt of cloth if you think cloth is light! It's all relative.
Oh yeah, there's also the accuracy of the weighing. 
Were you truly 'empty'? Engine oil??? No fuel???
Linn
thomas sargent wrote: [quote]I just weighed my RV-6A plane this morning. It is "completely finished", which is to say all fairings are installed and it is painted, ready to go.
The total weight was 1076 lbs, which was about 50 more than I'd hoped. Although, I gather this is pretty typical for these planes. Van claims 985lbs. I can't imagine how you could reduce the weight 90 pounds. CG is quite good, though.
It has a Catto wooden prop (only 17 lbs) and no vacuum system. It's not an IFR panel although I do have a Dynon D10A, VM1000 engine monitor, plus the usual airspeed, VSI, altimeter, Lift Reserve Indicator, an SL-30 radio and Garmin transponder. The AFP fuel injection is probably a bit heavier than a carburetor. The interior is a D.J. Lauritsen cloth interior which I think is light.Â
Van's max gross is 1650. I gather (from just about everybody, including people who know what they are talking about) that this is a very conservative number. Am I correct that if I, as the builder, test the plane at, say 1700 lbs, that I can then placard it at 1700 max gross?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A nearly reay for first flight.
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recapen(at)earthlink.net
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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Congrats...mine came in a bit heavier...but I know the reasons. I don't regret any one of them.
You can placard it heavier - you're the manufacturer. Mine is placarded heavier - but I'll probably never see that since my phase I.
Ralph
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:34 pm Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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I seem to recall official empty weight includes oil but no fuel or windshield wiper fluid.
Sent from my iPadWahoo!
On May 18, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
[quote] The biggest variable (usually) is paint weight. Especially with 2-part urethanes. That 'professional' (I mean really good looking, not done by a professional) paint job comes with a weight penalty. And pick up a bolt of cloth if you think cloth is light! It's all relative.
Oh yeah, there's also the accuracy of the weighing.
Were you truly 'empty'? Engine oil??? No fuel???
Linn
thomas sargent wrote: | Quote: | I just weighed my RV-6A plane this morning. It is "completely finished", which is to say all fairings are installed and it is painted, ready to go.
The total weight was 1076 lbs, which was about 50 more than I'd hoped. Although, I gather this is pretty typical for these planes. Van claims 985lbs. I can't imagine how you could reduce the weight 90 pounds. CG is quite good, though.
It has a Catto wooden prop (only 17 lbs) and no vacuum system. It's not an IFR panel although I do have a Dynon D10A, VM1000 engine monitor, plus the usual airspeed, VSI, altimeter, Lift Reserve Indicator, an SL-30 radio and Garmin transponder. The AFP fuel injection is probably a bit heavier than a carburetor. The interior is a D.J. Lauritsen cloth interior which I think is light.
Van's max gross is 1650. I gather (from just about everybody, including people who know what they are talking about) that this is a very conservative number. Am I correct that if I, as the builder, test the plane at, say 1700 lbs, that I can then placard it at 1700 max gross?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A nearly reay for first flight.
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
rums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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sarg314(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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The tanks were empty. There was 8 qt of oil. That is the "empty" weight, as they define it. CG came out about 1/2" behind the forward limit. Any passengers, fuel or baggage is going to move the CG aft, so I have plenty of margin there. That's obviously the way Van designed it.
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I seem to recall official empty weight includes oil but no fuel or windshield wiper fluid.Â
Sent from my iPadWahoo!
On May 18, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | The biggest variable (usually) is paint weight. Especially with 2-part urethanes. That 'professional' (I mean really good looking, not done by a professional) paint job comes with a weight penalty. And pick up a bolt of cloth if you think cloth is light! It's all relative.
Oh yeah, there's also the accuracy of the weighing.Â
Were you truly 'empty'? Engine oil??? No fuel???
Linn
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--
Tom Sargent
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Rick Galati
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Location: Lake St. Louis MO.
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:49 am Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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This is not meant as a direct challenge to reported empty weight claims made by an individual builder but in my experience, I take most such reports with a healthy dose of skepticism. Out of denial, people can fudge the numbers when they get on a bathroom scale in the morning. In the certified world of production aviation, the only reliable and accurate measurement is derived from using certified scales and because of cost, most RV builders do not use certified scales. Everybody is not on the same page. The absolute worst type scales are the so-called Ruggles scales Aircraft Spruce sells. Relatively inexpensive, they are little more than bathroom scales with a lever type extension that acts as a multiplier. So inaccurate, when I weighed my -6A using Ruggles scales, I had to move the aircraft on and off the scales TEN TIMES because I got a different reading each time. There was a 40 pound spread between the high end and the low end of the readings. I ended up accepting an average to satisfy completing that part of the documenting process. I openly wonder how many builders would use the lowest Ruggles scale measurement and then proudly tout how light their RV is! Since that time, I weighed my -8 using far more accurate digital scales that our EAA Chapter invested in. Just for grins, I did three separate measurements and the total weight did not vary by a single pound. Still, our EAA Chapter approved scales are not certified scales but I am satisfied that my claim (1106 #) is about as accurate as you can get short of shelling out $100 or more to use the regulatory standard: certified scales.
Rick Galati
RV-6A
RV8
[quote][b]
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tomw(at)charterops.com
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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Just currious Rick, how did the EAA scales compare with the Ruggles average weight?
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com (rick6a(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] This is not meant as a direct challenge to reported empty weight claims made by an individual builder but in my experience, I take most such reports with a healthy dose of skepticism. Out of denial, people can fudge the numbers when they get on a bathroom scale in the morning. In the certified world of production aviation, the only reliable and accurate measurement is derived from using certified scales and because of cost, most RV builders do not use certified scales. Everybody is not on the same page. The absolute worst type scales are the so-called Ruggles scales Aircraft Spruce sells. Relatively inexpensive, they are little more than bathroom scales with a lever type extension that acts as a multiplier. So inaccurate, when I weighed my -6A using Ruggles scales, I had to move the aircraft on and off the scales TEN TIMES because I got a different reading each time. There was a 40 pound spread between the high end and the low end of the readings. I ended up accepting an average to satisfy completing that part of the documenting process. I openly wonder how many builders would use the lowest Ruggles scale measurement and then proudly tout how light their RV is! Since that time, I weighed my -8 using far more accurate digital scales that our EAA Chapter invested in. Just for grins, I did three separate measurements and the total weight did not vary by a single pound. Still, our EAA Chapter approved scales are not certified scales but I am satisfied that my claim (1106 #) is about as accurate as you can get short of shelling out $100 or more to use the regulatory standard: certified scales.
Rick Galati
RV-6A
RV8
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: just weighed N811WT |
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We used Ruggles, then 6 months later used certified scales. In our case the certified was 50 lbs lighter!!! And of course more accurate. I agree the Ruggles are highly inaccurate and not very repetitive, and when you multiply by 2 for the moment arm, you are doubling the error!
Sent from my iPhone
On May 19, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com (rick6a(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]This is not meant as a direct challenge to reported empty weight claims made by an individual builder but in my experience, I take most such reports with a healthy dose of skepticism. Out of denial, people can fudge the numbers when they get on a bathroom scale in the morning. In the certified world of production aviation, the only reliable and accurate measurement is derived from using certified scales and because of cost, most RV builders do not use certified scales. Everybody is not on the same page. The absolute worst type scales are the so-called Ruggles scales Aircraft Spruce sells. Relatively inexpensive, they are little more than bathroom scales with a lever type extension that acts as a multiplier. So inaccurate, when I weighed my -6A using Ruggles scales, I had to move the aircraft on and off the scales TEN TIMES because I got a different reading each time. There was a 40 pound spread between the high end and the low end of the readings. I ended up accepting an average to satisfy completing that part of the documenting process. I openly wonder how many builders would use the lowest Ruggles scale measurement and then proudly tout how light their RV is! Since that time, I weighed my -8 using far more accurate digital scales that our EAA Chapter invested in. Just for grins, I did three separate measurements and the total weight did not vary by a single pound. Still, our EAA Chapter approved scales are not certified scales but I am satisfied that my claim (1106 #) is about as accurate as you can get short of shelling out $100 or more to use the regulatory standard: certified scales.
Rick Galati
RV-6A
RV8
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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