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Need a frank answer

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: Need a frank answer

Installing my panel the other day, I discovered that the maximum sized hole you can cut in the sub-panel for the radio rack (according to page 41-4) is insufficient for four typical radio rack components. Yet, I have seen many panels on display that have been able to accomplish this feat.

Before I go back to the drawing board, I need an honest answer from somebody on how this can be accomplished - without compromising the structural integrity required on 41-4.



Here's the situation: PS 9000X, 430W, SL-40, GTX-330. They all stick through the sub-panel (the PS doesn't, but try putting a connector on the back with a turn radius). The real issue is the bottom inch or so of the sub-panel has to be cut for the GTX-330 to fit, unless you move the entire stack to the absolute top of the panel, which brings up other unwanted issues.

Cutting that bottom inch is unthinkable, but it's obvious some of you have found a way around this. What is it? I had a friend suggest a "C" channel all the way across the bottom of the sub-panel flange, where only the tiny flange is still intact. Assuming this is good engineering, has it been done?



I realize some folks will want to hedge on this, but I'd appreciate any "hear-say" that you might have heard....



Respectfully,

John

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_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: Need a frank answer

Tim did this, check out his site and the panel section great pictures to 

show how he did it.

Pascal



--------------------------------------------------

From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>

Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:25 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Need a frank answer



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Installing my panel the other day, I discovered that the maximum sized 

 hole you can cut in the sub-panel for the radio rack (according to page 

 41-4) is insufficient for four typical radio rack components. Yet, I have 

 seen many panels on display that have been able to accomplish this feat.

 Before I go back to the drawing board, I need an honest answer from 

 somebody on how this can be accomplished - without compromising the 

 structural integrity required on 41-4.



 Here's the situation: PS 9000X, 430W, SL-40, GTX-330. They all stick 

 through the sub-panel (the PS doesn't, but try putting a connector on the 

 back with a turn radius). The real issue is the bottom inch or so of the 

 sub-panel has to be cut for the GTX-330 to fit, unless you move the entire 

 stack to the absolute top of the panel, which brings up other unwanted 

 issues.

 Cutting that bottom inch is unthinkable, but it's obvious some of you have 

 found a way around this. What is it? I had a friend suggest a "C" channel 

 all the way across the bottom of the sub-panel flange, where only the tiny 

 flange is still intact. Assuming this is good engineering, has it been 

 done?



 I realize some folks will want to hedge on this, but I'd appreciate any 

 "hear-say" that you might have heard....



 Respectfully,

 John



 --------

 #40572 QB. Working on Cowling &amp; Panel

 N711JG reserved





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298130#298130

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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: Need a frank answer

I put on a .020 doubler angle on the front, and an .063 extruded AL  

piece on the back all the way across the width of the sub panel.  The  

front angle ties to the vertical bulkheads, the rear butts next to them.



No real engineering analysis done, but it worked in my buddies -10 for  

300+ hours and I'm doing the same.  This really stiffens up this area.  

YMMV

-Mike

This view is aft of the sub panel looking foreward and down

This view is fore of the sub panel looking back.



Sent from my iPhone



On May 18, 2010, at 9:25 PM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>  

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Installing my panel the other day, I discovered that the maximum  

 sized hole you can cut in the sub-panel for the radio rack  

 (according to page 41-4) is insufficient for four typical radio rack  

 components. Yet, I have seen many panels on display that have been  

 able to accomplish this feat.

 Before I go back to the drawing board, I need an honest answer from  

 somebody on how this can be accomplished - without compromising the  

 structural integrity required on 41-4.



 Here's the situation: PS 9000X, 430W, SL-40, GTX-330. They all stick  

 through the sub-panel (the PS doesn't, but try putting a connector  

 on the back with a turn radius). The real issue is the bottom inch  

 or so of the sub-panel has to be cut for the GTX-330 to fit, unless  

 you move the entire stack to the absolute top of the panel, which  

 brings up other unwanted issues.

 Cutting that bottom inch is unthinkable, but it's obvious some of  

 you have found a way around this. What is it? I had a friend suggest  

 a "C" channel all the way across the bottom of the sub-panel flange,  

 where only the tiny flange is still intact. Assuming this is good  

 engineering, has it been done?



 I realize some folks will want to hedge on this, but I'd appreciate  

 any "hear-say" that you might have heard....



 Respectfully,

 John



 --------

 #40572 QB. Working on Cowling &amp; Panel

 N711JG reserved





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298130#298130




	


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bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: Need a frank answer

Maybe the new versions of the manual are different than mine (original rev 0), the only guidance is that you need to reinforce with 3/4" .063 angle.  According to some info I had collected before doing mine, the total stack height you're looking at is 6.88" (I've got the same stack height).  The angle technique is actually described on page 41-3 on my revision.  



Bob

RV-10 N442PM



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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Need a frank answer

I want to thank everyone for the responses and private messages. I think that I've got a way out, because of the wording on 41-3. It actually says you can skip the lower horizontal angle if you cut below 3/4" of remaining metal; I was assuming that the 3/4" was sacrosanct. It sounds nuts - and I plan on talking with Vans about it - but I'm now guessing that my friend's idea of an angle or "c" channel the length of the very bottom flange would do the trick.



If Vans says differently, I'll let everyone know. Again, thanks for the replies.



John

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_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Need a frank answer

Just to close this thread, I talked to tech support at Van's today. Short answer is:    It's a VFR airplane, but if you guys want an IFR panel, you will have to cut some metal out of the sub-panel. There is no set rule, but the builder/engineer/god-like-creature must ensure that any resulting weakness due to cutting, is replaced with an equivalent structural integrity.

"nough said - I'm cutting away what I need and putting in some impressive metal support that would make a structural engineer cry  (in a good way).



John

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_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: Need a frank answer

I noticed the ones that Bob Newman at TCW put into his RV-10.  They look machined and very nice.  Too bad they don’t sell them.  

   

I think you could make something out of ¾” angle and do okay.  But these sure would be nice.  

   

Here's the link....  

   

http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/InstrumentPanel#  

   

And a few sneak peeks...  

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CAF84D.DE6FF590[/img]  

   

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CAF84D.DE6FF590[/img]  

   

[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01CAF84D.DE6FF590[/img]  

   

Phil  

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: Need a frank answer

John, just remember that you'll carry the added weight of the 

'impressive metal support' forever.  I added a 1/2" aluminum angle where 

I wanted the additional stiffness, and it serves as a 'shelf' for the 

bottom tray.  Also, think about the magnitude of stress (deceleration) 

in which your mod would make a difference .......

Linn .... hoping I don't open it up again

do not archive



johngoodman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Just to close this thread, I talked to tech support at Van's today. Short answer is:    It's a VFR airplane, but if you guys want an IFR panel, you will have to cut some metal out of the sub-panel. There is no set rule, but the builder/engineer/god-like-creature must ensure that any resulting weakness due to cutting, is replaced with an equivalent structural integrity.

 "nough said - I'm cutting away what I need and putting in some impressive metal support that would make a structural engineer cry  (in a good way).



 John



 --------

 #40572 QB. Working on Cowling &amp; Panel

 N711JG reserved





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298377#298377

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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