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clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: safety pins

I just got these pins in the mail. Different from what I have on the plane now. Are they OK to use?



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cowlingpins.php





Mark IIIC

SC

donaho1(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: Safety pins

That`s the same kind I have been using for the last ten years. So far 

so good.  FSII  N598LF

clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: safety pins

Thanks Lanny!

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: safety pins

You might also consider using stainless steel safety rings. I've been using them for 23 years. I got mine from a marine dealer. They are great for folding up the plane, because they are easy to put on and take off. Be careful on using those clip types as they can "unclip" if they are used close to the ground where grass can catch on them.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: Re: safety pins

RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT.  Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN.  NOT A GOOD THING.  The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings."  They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove.  They also don't poke holes in fingers.  West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available.  Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better).  The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire.

_________________
Jerry King

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:44 am Post subject: safety pins

Jerry, and others,

  

   I had this conversation about pins/rings recently with someone, although I can't remember who at the moment.

  

   Maybe in some applications on a plane, a latching type pin would work.  Maybe they could be installed on a plane where there is zero chance of ever popping loose.  Okay, fine.

   But, for me, on my plane, I choose to ONLY use the stainless steel rings...period.  I make enough mistakes in life, to not have to worry about some life-altering pin snapping loose and falling out!!

  

   When my life can depend on something as simple as the manner in which clevis pins are secured, why use something that "may" snag on something and pop loose, when something so easy is available... namely stainless steel rings.

  

   When you secure a ring in place, that sucker ain't NEVER coming loose, until you want it to!!

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

  

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: safety pins

 From: gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us

 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:26:34 -0700

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>

 

 RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings." They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove. They also don't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available. Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better). The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire.

 

 --------

 Jerry King

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#300228

 

 

 

 

======================

&gt================
	


[quote] 

 

 

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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: safety pins

McMaster Carr calls then cotter rings.:



http://www.mcmaster.com/#pins/=7f0r1z

[/url]They're available in four diameters, three wire sizes, regular and stainless steel.

 



Rick Girard

 Stainless Steel  —  Plain

3/16"-1/4".048"5/8"[url=http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=Pins&FT_1611=66910&FT_1554=67516&FT_147=60652&FT_137=60708&FT_1131=69895&FT_184=13416&FT_1782=71482&ppe=8&session=Pins;1611=66910;1554=67516;M;I]95390A316$9.73 per Pack of 100 1/4"-5/16".048"3/4"95390A31710.23 per Pack of 100 3/8"-7/16".060"1"95390A3187.00 per Pack of 50 7/16"-1/2".072"1-1/8"95390A3199.98 per Pack of 50

 

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 1:26 PM, racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>

  

 RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT.  Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN.  NOT A GOOD THING.  The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings."  They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove.  They also don't poke holes in fingers.  West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available.  Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better).  The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire.

  

 --------

 Jerry King

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#300228

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 [b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: safety pins

Hi All,

 Been a mechanic for over 40 years and STILL learn something new almost every day. Cotter rings sound great , if for no other reason

than the spring pins that came with my firestar2 often hurt my fingers , am going to order some cotter rings soon as McMaster carr opens.

Thanks .

Frank Goodnight

Brownsville, TX

PS: Got my airplane back together again , Flew 1.5 hrs today Can't wait to get back out to the high country so I can get in some high density

altitude practice. The plane will have shed about 75 lbs ( extra fuel and camping gear) Hope for better results this time around. Should be

at Los Lumas , New Mexico middle of next  week. 

  



From: racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 1:26:34 PM

Subject: Re: safety pins



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>



RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT.  Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN.  NOT A GOOD THING.  The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings."  They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove.  They also don't poke holes in fingers.  West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available.  Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better).  The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire.



--------

Jerry King





Read this topic online here:

lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: Safety pins

Here is a tip to use when you use cotter rings in  lieu of cotter pins, take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend the leading edge  of the ring 1/4" 15 degrees back. this will make them easy to put on and  off.  Pete

   [quote][b]

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: safety pins

FWIW, and IMHO: Cotter rings are a huge improvement over cotter pins/clips in every case. I'm amazed the whole world/industry hasn't totally adopted them long ago. You won't be disappointed; use the Stainless ones. McMaster-Carr is a great outfit.do not archive 

Russ K



On Jun 6, 2010, at 5:34 PM, frank goodnight wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi All,

 Been a mechanic for over 40 years and STILL learn something new almost every day. Cotter rings sound great , if for no other reason

than the spring pins that came with my firestar2 often hurt my fingers , am going to order some cotter rings soon as McMaster carr opens.

Thanks .

Frank Goodnight

Brownsville, TX

PS: Got my airplane back together again , Flew 1.5 hrs today Can't wait to get back out to the high country so I can get in some high density

altitude practice. The plane will have shed about 75 lbs ( extra fuel and camping gear) Hope for better results this time around. Should be

at Los Lumas , New Mexico middle of next week. 

  



From: racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 1:26:34 PM

Subject: Re: safety pins



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>



RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT.  Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN.  NOT A GOOD THING.  The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings."  They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove.  They also don't poke holes in fingers.  West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available.  Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better).  The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire.



--------

Jerry King





Read this topic online here:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: safety pins

Mike/all , i used stainless saftey rings for the last 8 years

 I flew my KXP after finding one of the Kolb issued pins unhooked and hanging on my lift strut !Never a problem with the rings as you say a simple cure for a problem with my butt in the wager.

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly  



 

   From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 2:44:24 PM

Subject: RE: Re: safety pins



  Jerry, and others,

 

  I had this conversation about pins/rings recently with someone, although I can't remember who at the moment.

 

  Maybe in some applications on a plane, a latching type pin would work.  Maybe they could be installed on a plane where there is zero chance of ever popping loose.  Okay, fine.

  But, for me, on my plane, I choose to ONLY use the stainless steel rings...period.  I make enough mistakes in life, to not have to worry about some life-altering pin snapping loose and falling out!!

 

  When my life can depend on something as simple as the manner in which clevis pins are secured, why use something that "may" snag on something and pop loose, when something so easy is available... namely stainless steel rings.

 

  When you secure a ring in place, that sucker ain't NEVER coming loose, until you want it to!!

 

Mike  Welch

MkIII

 



 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: safety pins

 From: gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us

 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:26:34 -0700

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>

 

 RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings." They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove. They also don't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available. Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better). The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire.

 

 --------

  Jerry King

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#300228

 

 

 

 

======================

================

 

 

 


	


  Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. See how.  	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: Safety pins

"lhaggerty" wrote:  << Here is a tip to use when you use cotter rings in lieu of cotter pins, take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend the leading edge of the ring 1/4" 15 degrees back. this will make them easy to put on and off.  Pete >>  

   

   

The SS rings sold at the sailboat shops come with this offset (bend) already in place.  

Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin.  

   

Ten years ago, at Ralph B’s recommendation, I installed these safety rings on all the clevis pins on my Mark-3 because I fold/unfold my plane for each flight.  Excellent tip – easy to use, and I never need to worry about ‘em coming off.  Thanks again, Ralph!  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Sandia Park, NM  

Do not archive  

      [quote][b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:44 am Post subject: Safety pins

Someone posted sizes at McMaster-Carr.  What is the best single size to use?I get eyestrain trying to put in those grasshopper legs.

BB

windy here today but lots of things to do.



On 7, Jun 2010, at 12:56 PM, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  "lhaggerty" wrote:  << Here is a tip to use when you use cotter rings in lieu of cotter pins, take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend the leading edge of the ring 1/4" 15 degrees back. this will make them easy to put on and off.  Pete >>

 

 

The SS rings sold at the sailboat shops come with this offset (bend) already in place.

Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin.

 

Ten years ago, at Ralph B’s recommendation, I installed these safety rings on all the clevis pins on my Mark-3 because I fold/unfold my plane for each flight.  Excellent tip – easy to use, and I never need to worry about ‘em coming off.  Thanks again, Ralph!

 

Dennis Kirby

Sandia Park, NM

Do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		  



style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com

style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject: Safety pins

At 12:56 PM 6/7/2010, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  The SS rings sold at the sailboat shops come with this offset (bend) already in place.



 Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. 	


 Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.



 -Dana

 --

  Inflation is a result of legalized counterfeiting.    [quote][b]

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Safety pins

 	  Quote: 	
		   Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote:



Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.



-Dana 	




Dana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring tension. In all the years using them, I've never seen a hint of them ever coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them.



Ralph B

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: safety pins

ME EITHER

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly  



 

   From: Ralph B <ul15(at)juno.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 7:41:31 PM

Subject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph B" <ul15(at)juno.com (ul15(at)juno.com)>

 	  Quote: 	
		    Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote:

 

 Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.

 

 -Dana


	




Dana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring tension. In all the years using them, I've never seen a hint of them ever  coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them.



Ralph B



--------

Ralph B

Original Firestar 447

N91493 E-AB

1000 hours

23 years flying it

Kolbra 912UL

N20386

2 years flying it

120 hrs





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronic========================

          [quote][b]

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: safety pins

Ralph,Are you going to Oshkosh this year?I would love to meet you

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly  



 

   From: Ralph B <ul15(at)juno.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 7:41:31 PM

Subject: Re: safety pins



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph B" <ul15(at)juno.com (ul15(at)juno.com)>

 	  Quote: 	
		    Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote:

 

 Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.

 

 -Dana


	




Dana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring tension. In all the years using them, I've never seen a hint of them ever  coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them.



Ralph B



--------

Ralph B

Original Firestar 447

N91493 E-AB

1000 hours

23 years flying it

Kolbra 912UL

N20386

2 years flying it

120 hrs





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronic========================

          [quote][b]

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: safety pins

Dana

In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more  

in  use; admittedly mostly in  boats;  I've never even  heard of one  

coming loose by itself.

Seems impossible. I question your info source.

Russ K

do not archive

On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Ralph B wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

>  Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote:

>

> Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on  

> the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the  

> bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.

>

> -Dana

 Dana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under  

 vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring  

 tension. In all the years using them, I've never seen a hint of  

 them ever coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them.



 Ralph B



 --------

 Ralph B

 Original Firestar 447

 N91493 E-AB

 1000 hours

 23 years flying it

 Kolbra 912UL

 N20386

 2 years flying it

 120 hrs





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300419#300419

rmurrill(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:35 pm Post subject: safety pins

Had them come half way off on at least two occasions on a Tornado racing 

catamaran on pins that were removed maybe once a year on mast spreader 

wires. Sheets..i.e. ropes did slide by them occasionally, but mostly high 

vibration and lots of load unload cycles on the pins.  Changed to no lead in 

and never had a further problem.  Observed several occasions of turning 

blocks pulling out of slide tracks when circular pins came undone from 

sliding on decks on local racing monohulls.  Personal paranoia.. probably 

..but I used the unbent entry pins on my past airplanes and will use on my 

eventually to be completed MkIII.

---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: safety pins

 	  Quote: 	
		   In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more  in 

 use; admittedly mostly in  boats;  I've never even  heard of one  coming 

 loose by itself.

 Seems impossible. I question your info source.

 Russ K


	






May depend on the application the safety rings are used.



Sailboats probably are not subjected to the same high frequency vibration 

two stroke powered Kolb aircraft are.



SS is not nearly as stress resistance as carbon steel.



I use bolts and nyloc nuts.  No safety clips or rings.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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