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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: Underseat Fuel System (+cooling issues) |
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Frans,
smart ideas there and there and the best part of
them is that they all are free to use for
everybody if person just happens to like them!
During the building phase I read much of the
cooling problems.
My solution: I have no oil radiator at all!
In the tunnel there is only the water rad !
My Europa is cooling (or in fact adjusting or
controlling) the oil temp by the aid of the
oil-water exchanger.
That is a simple aluminium block between the foot
wells.
Water and oil inputs and outputs.
It is size like a typical brick.
The oil temp is following the water temp like a
humble slave: when the water temp goes upp, the
oil temp is sligtly less and the when water temp
goes down, the oil temp is again slightly more.
The cooling system includes also a water
thermostat.
I think it is "The Must" at least when flying
during Finnish winter time.
The engine warming time is minimized as is also
engine wear, the cockpit is well heated and engine
temp is fixed.
All the water cooled cars do have water
thermostats...
(OK - I know - some of you are tempted to think a
thermostat is a risk. Well - please do not install
thermostats in that case - just fly!)
Terveisin, Raimo Toivio
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 +150 hrs
Grounded so far and it is in it´s home hangar
because she is waiting for a new "Europa Hall" in
the EFTP and that will be completed next Monday
!!!
37500 Lempäälä
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to
www.rwm.fi
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Frans Veldman" <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:26 AM
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Underseat Fuel System
| Quote: |
<frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
On 06/08/2010 09:53 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> I have drainage holes there also but blocked
> them by glued pieces of
> blue foam.
> If some free fuel occurs, it will immediately
> melt it´s way out.
Smart idea!
I put all fuel related stuff (pumps, filters,
valves, flow sensors) in a
sealed box, with a hatch to the underside of the
plane. From there I can
access the gascolator, and if there develops a
leak in the dozen or so
T's and other connections, it will leak out via
the hatch. I won't even
have a fuel smell inside the cockpit.
But still, I like your idea to have a few "melt
holes" at strategic
places. It seems the tank can leak too! So, now
I have found a use for
my scrap blue foam.
Frans
browse
Un/Subscription,
Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
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List Admin.
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: Underseat Fuel System (+cooling issues) |
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On 06/11/2010 04:39 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
| Quote: | My solution: I have no oil radiator at all!
In the tunnel there is only the water rad !
|
That should also be better than the tandem radiator setup. How does it
behave in warm weather? Can you fly normally in temperatures of 35 degrees?
| Quote: | The cooling system includes also a water thermostat.
I think it is "The Must" at least when flying during Finnish winter time.
|
Well, you could achieve the same with a cowl flap I think.
| Quote: | (OK - I know - some of you are tempted to think a thermostat is a risk.
Well - please do not install thermostats in that case - just fly!)
|
The reason I don't like thermostats is that you will still have the
cooling drag, due to dragging air through the radiator, while you
actually don't want to cool anything.
With a cowl flap that closes off the air flow through the radiator, you
can also prevent overcooling, but at the same time you reduce drag.
Frans
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: Underseat Fuel System (+cooling issues) |
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How does it
| Quote: | behave in warm weather? Can you fly normally in
temperatures of 35 degrees?
|
+35 degrees here is definetely not a common
situation in (Great) Finland but around 25-30C -
no problem - even with a full power and climbing (at)
70 knots.
So, it behaves well! And has behaved well three
years and over 150 hrs.
(BTW, during last May Finland was one week the
hottest place in whole Europa including Italy and
other southernmost places)
| Quote: | >
Well, you could achieve the same with a cowl
flap I think.
|
That is true, but: a thermostat is automatic and a
cowl flap is manual (or maybe you have an
automatic motorized cowl flap including an
electric thermostat  )
Old timer cars did have manual curtains front of
the rads...today´s cars have been updated some
years ago by thermostats...do they?
Old timer engines have also manual mixture and
manual ignition controls and so.
OK: automatic = uncontrolled, manual = pilot
controlled. That is good.
Maybe you are right. The pilot controlled is
better. That is why I have pilot controlled gears.
You have automatic. They are (automatically) down
and tracted.
| Quote: |
The reason I don't like thermostats is that you
will still have the
cooling drag, due to dragging air through the
radiator, while you
actually don't want to cool anything.
With a cowl flap that closes off the air flow
through the radiator, you
can also prevent overcooling, but at the same
time you reduce drag.
|
OK Frans!
You close your cooling flap. How much faster you
are flying after that? And how long (before you
have to open it again)?
How many extra grams?
What about if it will be seized to the closed
position?
OK, this has been wrote by your personal D.D.
from Finland only, do not care. Kwaak kwaak.
Raimo OH-XRT
BTW what is The Date of The Texel Fly Inn - I do
like to meet you (or your wife in fact) there!
Would be wonderful and a real pleasure there to
check our planes in EVERY direction you know.
R
(zero hours 2010)
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: Underseat Fuel System (+cooling issues) |
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On 06/11/2010 08:09 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
| Quote: | How does it
> behave in warm weather? Can you fly normally in temperatures of 35
> degrees?
+35 degrees here is definetely not a common situation in (Great) Finland
|
Neither here... but I intent to use my airplane to go to places, and I
might find myself on a hot airfield someday.
| Quote: | but around 25-30C - no problem - even with a full power and climbing (at)
70 knots.
|
Ok, sounds good.
| Quote: | You close your cooling flap. How much faster you are flying after that?
|
5 knots difference between the flap open (which is about the fixed
position of a standard Europa aircraft) and cruise setting (= almost
closed, flush with the bottom of the fuselage).
You have a wheel to retract, I have a cowl flap to retract. Both save a
few knots. You think it is worth it (otherwise why do you have a mono)
and I think it is worth it (but I prefer to have 3 wheels instead of 4).
Maybe we can do some racing someday.
| Quote: | And how long (before you have to open it again)?
|
I don't need to open it for cruising and landing, but to take some of
the workload away in the event I have to do a go around, opening the
cowl flap is on my downwind checklist. If it fails to open I will just
land without a go around.
| Quote: | How many extra grams?
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Well, I think it is lighter than the fixed standard cowling of the Europa.
| Quote: | What about if it will be seized to the closed position?
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Then I hate having to use full power.
| Quote: | BTW what is The Date of The Texel Fly Inn - I do like to meet you (or
your wife in fact) there! Would be wonderful and a real pleasure there
to check our planes in EVERY direction you know.
|
I don't remember the date, but we will be there. And I will remember you
in due time for that!
Frans
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thomas(at)scherer.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: Underseat Fuel System (+cooling issues) |
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