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Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

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tomcostanza

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

Has anyone had interference between strobes and Nav/Coms?  And if so, did you do anything to reduce it?



I ran a seat-of-the-pants experiment by running one strobe on the bench.  I found a lot of interference on a broadcast AM radio, but almost none with a comm radio.  The little I did notice seemed to be coming from the power line and not the antenna (when I turned the volume down, I still heard it), and with the engine running, I doubt I would be able to hear it anyway.  I'm more concerned about the nav or gps receivers.



I'm asking because I need to run wires and don't know if I need to keep the strobe wires away from other wires, and if so, how far.  It will complicate things if I do (drill more holes in structural members, etc.), so I'd like to bundle all the wires together.  On the other hand, if I need to keep them separate, I'd rather do the work while I'm building, than try to retrofit a fix after the plane is built.

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_________________
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
-- in year 17 of a 3 year project

Sam

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

Tom, I have an unresolved strobe noise problem in my composite aircraft.  For the record, the radio is an ICOM A210 and they are Sky Brite Strobes with a Bob Archer antenna.



I think the noise is broadcast by the power supply and picked up by the antenna.

 



I say unresolved because I haven't bothered to trace it it yet.  I did try an inline filter to the Strobe +12V supply, which didn't seem to do anything but I find all the noise goes away when I have the strobe switch in the OFF position.

 



Sam



On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 AM, tomcostanza <Tom(at)costanzaandassociates.com (Tom(at)costanzaandassociates.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>

 

 Has anyone had interference between strobes and Nav/Coms?  And if so, did you do anything to reduce it?

 

 I ran a seat-of-the-pants experiment by running one strobe on the bench.  I found a lot of interference on a broadcast AM radio, but almost none with a comm radio.  The little I did notice seemed to be coming from the power line and not the antenna (when I turned the volume down, I still heard it), and with the engine running, I doubt I would be able to hear it anyway.  I'm more concerned about the nav or gps receivers.

  

 I'm asking because I need to run wires and don't know if I need to keep the strobe wires away from other wires, and if so, how far.  It will complicate things if I do (drill more holes in structural members, etc.), so I'd like to bundle all the wires together.  On the other hand, if I need to keep them separate, I'd rather do the work while I'm building, than try to retrofit a fix after the plane is built.

  

 --------

 Clear Skies,

 Tom Costanza

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300698#300698

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

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_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

Sam I would suggest you run the strobes or radio off a separate 12 volt source to see it that helps. If it changes for the better then you know the problem is in the supply voltage.   

Tim Andres    

 (rnbraud(at)yahoo.com)   

        

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins

 Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 7:12 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question  

  

   

Tom, I have an unresolved strobe noise problem in my composite aircraft.  For the record, the radio is an ICOM A210 and they are Sky Brite Strobes with a Bob Archer antenna.    

   

    

I think the noise is broadcast by the power supply and picked up by the antenna.  

    

   

    

I say unresolved because I haven't bothered to trace it it yet.  I did try an inline filter to the Strobe +12V supply, which didn't seem to do anything but I find all the noise goes away when I have the strobe switch in the OFF position.  

    

   

    

Sam  

    

     

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 AM, tomcostanza <Tom(at)costanzaandassociates.com (Tom(at)costanzaandassociates.com)> wrote:  

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>

 

 Has anyone had interference between strobes and Nav/Coms?  And if so, did you do anything to reduce it?

 

 I ran a seat-of-the-pants experiment by running one strobe on the bench.  I found a lot of interference on a broadcast AM radio, but almost none with a comm radio.  The little I did notice seemed to be coming from the power line and not the antenna (when I turned the volume down, I still heard it), and with the engine running, I doubt I would be able to hear it anyway.  I'm more concerned about the nav or gps receivers.

 

 I'm asking because I need to run wires and don't know if I need to keep the strobe wires away from other wires, and if so, how far.  It will complicate things if I do (drill more holes in structural members, etc.), so I'd like to bundle all the wires together.  On the other hand, if I need to keep them separate, I'd rather do the work while I'm building, than try to retrofit a fix after the plane is built.

 

 --------

 Clear Skies,

 Tom Costanza

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300698#300698

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

   

  

   

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tomcostanza

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

Sam,



Ditto what Tim said.  The easiest thing to do would be to borrow a hand-held receiver.  If possible, you might also connect it to the ship's power to see if the symptoms change.  If you only get interference while connected to the ship's power, it's probably coming in through the power wiring and not the antenna.



My concern was that I would experience the same issue, since I will also be using Archer wingtip antennas, and the strobe will only be a few inches away.  Someone suggested, and Bob may confirm, that grounding the shield at both ends gives you an electromagnetic shield (what we want), as opposed to grounding at only one end (electrostatic shield).

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_________________
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
-- in year 17 of a 3 year project

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

At 05:40 AM 6/16/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>



Sam,



Ditto what Tim said.  The easiest thing to do would be to borrow a 

hand-held receiver.  If possible, you might also connect it to the 

ship's power to see if the symptoms change.  If you only get 

interference while connected to the ship's power, it's probably 

coming in through the power wiring and not the antenna.



My concern was that I would experience the same issue, since I will 

also be using Archer wingtip antennas, and the strobe will only be a 

few inches away.  Someone suggested, and Bob may confirm, that 

grounding the shield at both ends gives you an electromagnetic 

shield (what we want), as opposed to grounding at only one end 

(electrostatic shield).


	


    What is the nature of the noise? Is it a 'pop' each time

    the strobe fires or is it a whine that sweeps in synchronization

    with the strobe firing? Is the noise affected by adjusting

    volume on the radio? When there is no signal being received

    by the radio and the background noise is squelched, can

    the noise be heard?



    For the most part, shielding of the strobe wiring has little

    or zero benefit for noise reduction. The 'pop' phenomenon

    is most often associated with radiated noise from the

    strobe tube and is generally worse when the victim receiver's

    antenna is mounted close to the tube. The whining noise is

    usually conducted on the 14v power lines but it can get into

    the system via the radio or the external audio processing

    like the intercom.



    You first need to evaluate the questions above to identify

    the mode of propagation and exactly WHICH system is being

    victimized.

   Bob . . .

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Sam

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135

Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:55 am Post subject: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

I did that.  Still had the strobe noise.



Sam



On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net (tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 [quote]              

Sam I would suggest you run the strobes or radio off a separate 12 volt source to see it that helps. If it changes for the better then you know the problem is in the supply voltage.   

Tim Andres    

 (rnbraud(at)yahoo.com)    

        

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins

 Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 7:12 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question  

  

   

Tom, I have an unresolved strobe noise problem in my composite aircraft.  For the record, the radio is an ICOM A210 and they are Sky Brite Strobes with a Bob Archer antenna.    

   

    

I think the noise is broadcast by the power supply and picked up by the antenna.  

    

   

    

I say unresolved because I haven't bothered to trace it it yet.  I did try an inline filter to the Strobe +12V supply, which didn't seem to do anything but I find all the noise goes away when I have the strobe switch in the OFF position.  

    

   

    

Sam  

  

  

     

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 AM, tomcostanza <Tom(at)costanzaandassociates.com (Tom(at)costanzaandassociates.com)> wrote:  



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>

 

 Has anyone had interference between strobes and Nav/Coms?  And if so, did you do anything to reduce it?

 

 I ran a seat-of-the-pants experiment by running one strobe on the bench.  I found a lot of interference on a broadcast AM radio, but almost none with a comm radio.  The little I did notice seemed to be coming from the power line and not the antenna (when I turned the volume down, I still heard it), and with the engine running, I doubt I would be able to hear it anyway

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question

At 05:40 AM 6/16/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>



Sam,



Ditto what Tim said.  The easiest thing to do would be to borrow a 

hand-held receiver.  If possible, you might also connect it to the 

ship's power to see if the symptoms change.  If you only get 

interference while connected to the ship's power, it's probably 

coming in through the power wiring and not the antenna.



My concern was that I would experience the same issue, since I will 

also be using Archer wingtip antennas, and the strobe will only be a 

few inches away.  Someone suggested, and Bob may confirm, that 

grounding the shield at both ends gives you an electromagnetic 

shield (what we want), as opposed to grounding at only one end 

(electrostatic shield).


	


    What is the nature of the noise? Is it a 'pop' each time

    the strobe fires or is it a whine that sweeps in synchronization

    with the strobe firing? Is the noise affected by adjusting

    volume on the radio? When there is no signal being received

    by the radio and the background noise is squelched, can

    the noise be heard?



    For the most part, shielding of the strobe wiring has little

    or zero benefit for noise reduction. The 'pop' phenomenon

    is most often associated with radiated noise from the

    strobe tube and is generally worse when the victim receiver's

    antenna is mounted close to the tube. The whining noise is

    usually conducted on the 14v power lines but it can get into

    the system via the radio or the external audio processing

    like the intercom.



    You first need to evaluate the questions above to identify

    the mode of propagation and exactly WHICH system is being

    victimized.

   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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