 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
woodsie
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: New Zealand
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: rivets... |
 |
|
Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS skeleton. So far so good.   Now I’m fixing the skin, and wanted to pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I can't use the squeezer. OK – Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Woodsie
waiting for Empennage to arrive  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:33 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
At this point in time, if you do not have a local EAA chapter with a Technical Counselor who can teach you, I would strongly suggest you plan a trip to Oshkosh around the end of this month and go to as many of the forums on sheet metal work as you can. You will learn a lot there, that will be invaluable as you move forward with this project.
Van’s gives some instruction on riveting techniques in the builders manual, and there is a lot more information available from EAA, including a recently issued book on sheetmetal work, but it’s hard to teach through a book something that requires as much “feel” as riveting. Participating in a hands-on clinic at OSH is the quickest way to learn. If you are going to invest $100K + in building this airplane, the cost of a trip to OSH, even if you can only go for a day or two, is money well spent.
Jack Phillips
# 40610 – wings (but lately spending all my time working on my hangar)
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Woods
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:24 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: rivets...
Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS skeleton. So far so good. Now I’m fixing the skin, and wanted to pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I can't use the squeezer. OK – Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony | Quote: | | [b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[b] |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:53 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
Where are you located? If you are near another RV-builder (and you can't make it to Oshkosh), then I'd suggest getting someone locally to help you (or you help them) for a day or two so you can get the hang of it.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Jul 1, 2010, at 3:23 AM, Tony Woods wrote:
| Quote: | Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS skeleton. So far so good. Now I’m fixing the skin, and wanted to pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I can't use the squeezer. OK – Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
| Quote: |
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tsts4
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: Re: rivets... |
|
|
| Quote: | | I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the head |
Tony,
For normal riveting, you would do just the opposite. Place the rivet set of the gun against the manufactured head and skin, and the bucking bar against the "tail" (the protuding stub) to form the shop head. What you describe is called back riveting and requires a special back riveting set with a spring loaded collar. In any event, practice on some scrap first. As Jack said, try and find another builder or tech counselor to give you some hands-on (riveting is not hard just takes practice) and check out these videos from EAA: http://eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html lots of good info there.
Also make sure you're not using too much air pressure. I run about 35-40 psi for an AN426-3-3 to 3-5 rivet for a 3X gun. For 4-x rivets I go up to 60 psi.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rbibb
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 37
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:46 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
Its not a hard skill to acquire but I wouldn't plan on learning it on your
airplane. Get some scrap Aluminum, drill soem holes, rivet until you gain
confidence. Shouldn't take long to gain confidence. That's how I did it
on my RV-4 years ago. Advantage of the -4 was there was lost's of scrap
aluminum to play with....
| Quote: | Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
skeleton. So far so good. Now I’m fixing the skin, and wanted to
pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
can't use the squeezer. OK – Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I
guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten
surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the
protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
You have already received some good suggestions. If you give in your
signature your airport or other general location, you might be surprised
how many RV's are under construction, with builders ready to help each
other. Get some scrap aluminum, and take a couple pieces. Start drilling
and dimpling them, so you can practice riveting. You can just put them
in a vice to hold them. If you don't already have a back rivet plate and
back rivet set for your rivet gun, you will want them. Like a squeezer,
wherever you can back rivet, you will want to do so, because it gives
such nice results with low risk of marks and "smileys". However you
plan to rivet two pieces together, try that method out on your scrap
pieces first, until you are happy with how the practice pieces come out.
That is how you test your air pressure, your technique for holding the
specific bucking bar, how long a burst from the gun you need, etc.
Kelly
KCHD
EAA Tech Counselor
kit 40866
On 7/1/2010 12:23 AM, Tony Woods wrote:
| Quote: |
Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
skeleton. So far so good. Now I’m fixing the skin, and wanted to
pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
can't use the squeezer. OK – Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?
I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat
tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to
hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
*
*
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
The suggestion to find an EAA chapter/members is the best guidance you'll get at this point ..... even if you have to drive a ways.
You'll get the benefits of a tech counselor and a flight adviser if they have one. And members love to help each other.
The second best 'learning tool' is Vans toolbox. Especially if you don't have any riveting experience.
I bought one (and put it together) even though I'd done hard rivets years ago. I actually use mine to carry tools in!!
Linn
do not archive
rbibb(at)tomet.net (rbibb(at)tomet.net) wrote: [quote] | Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: rbibb(at)tomet.net (rbibb(at)tomet.net)
Its not a hard skill to acquire but I wouldn't plan on learning it on your
airplane. Get some scrap Aluminum, drill soem holes, rivet until you gain
confidence. Shouldn't take long to gain confidence. That's how I did it
on my RV-4 years ago. Advantage of the -4 was there was lost's of scrap
aluminum to play with....
| Quote: | Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
skeleton. So far so good. Now I’m fixing the skin, and wanted to
pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
can't use the squeezer. OK – Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I
guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten
surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the
protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
|
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
Tony,
You have the general idea, however you need a little more education. You are describing the back riviting method that works well on a large flat surface such as a table. I would suggest that you learn the air force method of riviting for wat you want to do. I will try to describe briefly what to do. The rivit gun with a flat driver should be used on the rivit head outside of the exterior skin and the bucking bar inside.
Start by placing the bar alongside of the rivit contacting the skin. You begin by applying very light tings with the driver to the rivit head. This will pull the skins tight. Next give the rivit a very short hit which will expand the rivit a few thousants and hold the sheets together. Next,
give the rivit gun final hit that will finish the rivit and create a buck tail. The buck tail should be approximately 0ne and a half times the diameter of the rivit. Note: a bargain basement rivit gun will usually produce lousy jobs. There is no cheap way out. I would suggest either Avery or Cleveland for rivit tools. If you wish to discuss this, call me (at) 920 619 6968
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one,
1, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
[quote]
Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS skeleton. So far so good. Now I’m fixing the skin, and wanted to pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I can't use the squeezer. OK – Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:10 am Post subject: Re: rivets... |
|
|
Since this is basic instruction:
It's obvious once you learn the skill; Dick (above) didn't explicitly say it, but you need to move the bucking bar to the rivet tail after the first light tap to set the skins together. Hold the bar firmly and square to the rivet tail; but apply more pressure to the gun than the bucking bar, or else the rivet will back out.
Also, never pull the gun away until after you've released the trigger. I'm sure we've all learned that the hard way!
Finally, back-riveting is easier to do with less cosmetic damage than "normal" riveting. Unfortunately you often can't get at the tail with the gun. Buy a special back-rivet set tool, and a massive steel plate for the front side. Any steel plate will do, you don't have to get a special one.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rwwende
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "Tony Woods" <twoods(at)sesa.af>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: rivets...
Ok.=C2=A0 I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS = skeleton.=C2=A0 So far so good. =C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=E2=80=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2=A0 I can't use the = squeezer.=C2=A0 OK =E2=80=93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?=C2=A0 I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
woodsie
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
Hey thank you very much everyone! I have found a retired aircraft engineer down here to give me some help, and will be getting started on a toolbox this weekend... J
Tony Woods
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods(at)sesa.af>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: rivets...
Ok.=C2=A0 I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS = skeleton.=C2=A0 So far so good. =C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=E2=80=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2=A0 I can't use the = squeezer.=C2=A0 OK =E2=80=93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?=C2=A0 I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567890123
~
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Woodsie
waiting for Empennage to arrive |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
woodsie
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
OK – I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique sorted out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got the whole tool kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc etc. Much of it I'm still looking at and wondering what it does, but looking forward to finding out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet head is formed against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods(at)sesa.af>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: rivets...
Ok.=C2=A0 I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS = skeleton.=C2=A0 So far so good. =C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=E2=80=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2=A0 I can't use the = squeezer.=C2=A0 OK =E2=80=93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?=C2=A0 I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567890123
~
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Woodsie
waiting for Empennage to arrive |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tsts4
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: rivets... |
|
|
Woodie,
Correct. Once you do it a few times it will all click.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a part,
including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections leave that up to
your experience. If you are using bucking bar with rivet gun on the
manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed against the bucking bar
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dmaib(at)mac.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
Mary and I used that bucking bar http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-bar.aspx extensively while riveting our tailcone. I back riveted from the inside while she held the bucking bar on the manufactured heads on the exterior. It worked great and we get lots of compliments on the riveting. I found during the build that my number one preference was to squeeze the rivet. If that was not possible, then back riveting was choice number two. If that would not work then shooting the rivet with the gun on the manufactured head and the bucking bar on the tail was choice number three. The pneumatic squeezer was a very gentlemanly way to rivet. I loved using that tool!
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:08 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a part, including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections leave that up to your experience. If you are using bucking bar with rivet gun on the manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed against the bucking bar. In back riveting the shop head is formed by the rivet gun. In some cases you can back rivet with a large round bucking bar, such as http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-bar.aspx for places where you can't lay the sheet metal against the back rivet plate.
If I recall correctly, some of the vertical stab is much easier to do with an assistant holding the bucking bar.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
| Quote: |
OK – I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique sorted out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got the whole tool kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc etc. Much of it I'm still looking at and wondering what it does, but looking forward to finding out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet head is formed against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com (rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com)
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: rivets...
Ok.=C2=A0 I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS = skeleton.=C2=A0 So far so good. =C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=E2=80=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2=A0 I can't use the = squeezer.=C2=A0 OK =E2=80=93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?=C2=A0 I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
012345 678901 23
~
4
|
5
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
woodsie
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
Thanks heaps guys! That is a huge help to my confidence! J
Woodsie
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 2:09 p.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: rivets...
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a part, including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections leave that up to your experience. If you are using bucking bar with rivet gun on the manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed against the bucking bar. In back riveting the shop head is formed by the rivet gun. In some cases you can back rivet with a large round bucking bar, such as http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-bar.aspx for places where you can't lay the sheet metal against the back rivet plate.
If I recall correctly, some of the vertical stab is much easier to do with an assistant holding the bucking bar.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
OK – I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique sorted out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got the whole tool kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc etc. Much of it I'm still looking at and wondering what it does, but looking forward to finding out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet head is formed against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com (rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com)
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: rivets...
Ok.=C2=A0 I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS = skeleton.=C2=A0 So far so good. =C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=E2=80=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2=A0 I can't use the = squeezer.=C2=A0 OK =E2=80=93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?=C2=A0 I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution |
~
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com |
01
23456789 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
1 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
2 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
3 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
4 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
5 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
6 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
7 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
8 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
9 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
0 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
1
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Woodsie
waiting for Empennage to arrive |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rv10(at)colohan.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
FYI -- I just looked over the Isham tool kit, and have a couple of comments:
- it doesn't come with a hand squeezer. You may be able to use the pneumatic squeezer for everything, but personally I like the level of control a hand-squeezer gives me. (Aka, it takes more deliberate effort to make a "whoops" for my beginner skills.) I've found that I can use most any hand squeezer for 3/32" rivets, but I can only really hand-squeeze 1/8" rivets using the Cleveland Main Squeeze. (The Avery one and other cheaper ones don't have enough leverage for me.)
- I just started my RV-10 horizontal stabilizer, and realized I needed to order more 3/32" clecos. I had 300, now I have 500. (The RV-10 upgrade Isham offers bumps you up to 500 clecos, so if you have that you are golden.)
- don't trust the rivet lengths given by Van's. Check the length with a rivet gauge before setting them. (Drilling them out after if they are too short is _painful_!)
- the toolbox is a good project to learn on. But you may find yourself wanting to do more before your riveting feels "perfect". Either buy and build more toolboxes, buy the sportair practice kit (you assemble a small wing segment), or get some scrap aluminum and practice, practice, practice. (If there is a sportair workshop in your area, go take the course for a real confidence builder.)
- Buy a few handfuls of super-long rivets (both 3/32" and 1/8", universal and flush head) and a rivet cutter. Then you can make rivets any length you need on demand. Better to order this now than to wait until you need this...
Read this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=59436
Chris
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks heaps guys! That is a huge help to my confidence! J
Woodsie
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 2:09 p.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: rivets...
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a part, including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections leave that up to your experience. If you are using bucking bar with rivet gun on the manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed against the bucking bar. In back riveting the shop head is formed by the rivet gun. In some cases you can back rivet with a large round bucking bar, such as http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-bar.aspx for places where you can't lay the sheet metal against the back rivet plate.
If I recall correctly, some of the vertical stab is much easier to do with an assistant holding the bucking bar.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
OK – I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique sorted out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got the whole tool kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc etc. Much of it I'm still looking at and wondering what it does, but looking forward to finding out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet head is formed against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com (rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com)
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: rivets...
Ok.=C2=A0 I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS = skeleton.=C2=A0 So far so good. =C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=E2=80=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2=A0 I can't use the = squeezer.=C2=A0 OK =E2=80=93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?=C2=A0 I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
~
01
234567 890 1234 56789 01
2
|
--
Chris
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fdombroski
Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 33
Location: Westfield NJ
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:59 am Post subject: Re: rivets... |
|
|
If you go on YouTube and search "riveting" you will find many good instructional videos...
Cheers
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Frank Dombroski
Multiple Offender RV-8, 7A, 10 x 2
RV-10 2.0 N46VT 2015
KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: rivets... |
|
|
I bought the ISHM tool kit for the RV -10 it had everything including a hand squeezer and a pneumatic squeezer. I have added a lot more # 3 clecos when I got to the emp in the build process. They are a great company to deal with.
John G. Cumins
40864 emp fiberglassing the HZ stab tips and Vert stab tips.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 12:00 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: rivets...
FYI -- I just looked over the Isham tool kit, and have a couple of comments:
- it doesn't come with a hand squeezer. You may be able to use the pneumatic squeezer for everything, but personally I like the level of control a hand-squeezer gives me. (Aka, it takes more deliberate effort to make a "whoops" for my beginner skills.) I've found that I can use most any hand squeezer for 3/32" rivets, but I can only really hand-squeeze 1/8" rivets using the Cleveland Main Squeeze. (The Avery one and other cheaper ones don't have enough leverage for me.)
- I just started my RV-10 horizontal stabilizer, and realized I needed to order more 3/32" clecos. I had 300, now I have 500. (The RV-10 upgrade Isham offers bumps you up to 500 clecos, so if you have that you are golden.)
- don't trust the rivet lengths given by Van's. Check the length with a rivet gauge before setting them. (Drilling them out after if they are too short is _painful_!)
- the toolbox is a good project to learn on. But you may find yourself wanting to do more before your riveting feels "perfect". Either buy and build more toolboxes, buy the sportair practice kit (you assemble a small wing segment), or get some scrap aluminum and practice, practice, practice. (If there is a sportair workshop in your area, go take the course for a real confidence builder.)
- Buy a few handfuls of super-long rivets (both 3/32" and 1/8", universal and flush head) and a rivet cutter. Then you can make rivets any length you need on demand. Better to order this now than to wait until you need this...
Read this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=59436
Chris
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
Thanks heaps guys! That is a huge help to my confidence! J
Woodsie
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 2:09 p.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: rivets...
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a part, including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections leave that up to your experience. If you are using bucking bar with rivet gun on the manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed against the bucking bar. In back riveting the shop head is formed by the rivet gun. In some cases you can back rivet with a large round bucking bar, such as http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-bar.aspx for places where you can't lay the sheet metal against the back rivet plate.
If I recall correctly, some of the vertical stab is much easier to do with an assistant holding the bucking bar.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Tony Woods <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)> wrote:
OK – I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique sorted out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got the whole tool kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc etc. Much of it I'm still looking at and wondering what it does, but looking forward to finding out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet head is formed against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com (rwendell(at)hydro-splash.com)
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods(at)sesa.af (twoods(at)sesa.af)>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: rivets...
Ok.=C2=A0 I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS = skeleton.=C2=A0 So far so good. =C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=E2=80=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2=A0 I can't use the = squeezer.=C2=A0 OK =E2=80=93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?=C2=A0 I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution |
~
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com |
01
234567
89 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
1 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
2 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
3
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
4 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
5 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
6
--
Chris
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
7 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
8 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
9 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
0 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
1 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
2 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
3 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
4 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
5 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
6 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
7 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
8 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
9 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
0 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
1 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
2 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
3 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
4 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
5 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
6
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
