 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: LEARN! |
 |
|
Hello Gang and Guru's:
I want to extent a learning situation that just happened to me in
hopes of saving someone out there time, money and maybe some one's
life.
I was flying a friend’s plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the pattern.
I announced the 45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very
Rough, Baulked and Kicked.
Landed without additional incident.
Shut down and pulled the prop through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.
Next day did a compression check - Confirmed - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air
rushing out of the exhaust.
Pulled the cylinder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found
three in the exhaust pipe.
Ordered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and buttons.
BEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIPE and
SUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.
Inspected with a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!
Installed the NEW cylinder.
Did a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.
Taxied to the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]
Did a Run-Up all was WELL.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?
I have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throttle ON the runway just
before take off.
RPM dropped from 1800 down to 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.
WE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !
Taxied back.
Pulled the spark plug.
And did a Compression check.
Cyl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.
LQQKed inside and the piston had dings all over the face.
Those out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
There was a piece of Valve still in the system.
BUT WAIT!
YES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1
Cylinder INTAKE Spider.
I think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNOW I WAS!
I kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.
I APOLOGIZED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A
NEW CYLINDER. OUCH!
Not happy with my previous inspection – I am my own worst critic - I
pulled off ALL the cylinders.
Upon pulling of Cyl #3--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk
of valve about 3/8" across.
It TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.
So, what do you do ... Do you do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per
above or do you OPEN ALL the INTAKES?
Guess what I am going to do from now on!
And in addition I am going to pull the Carb too!
Barry
'Always a student'
‘A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man learns from
the mistakes of others.'
I made this one – You Learn!
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dfortnam(at)AOL.COM
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: LEARN! |
|
|
Barry,
Thanks for sharing this story!
Doug Fortnam
--
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: LEARN! |
|
|
I had a customer with the same experience over San Francisco bay. He made it to San Rafael. When I pulled the cylinder, the valve head was intact in the cylinder. Lots of dents on the piston. We opted to replace just that cylinder and get it to Auburn. Then, all new ported and polished cylinders.
You're lucky. You might have taken off and had that chunk bounce around in a few other cylinders as well.
I had a turbo Corvair that ingested a washer. It chewed up the turbo that then deposited pieces all though the engine. What a mess.
Gary
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 3:06:00 PM
Subject: LEARN!
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
Hello Gang and Guru's:
I want to extent a learning situation that just happened to me in
hopes of saving someone out there time, money and maybe some one's
life.
I was flying a friend’s plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the pattern.
I announced the 45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very
Rough, Baulked and Kicked.
Landed without additional incident.
Shut down and pulled the prop through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.
Next day did a compression check - Confirmed - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air
rushing out of the exhaust.
Pulled the cylinder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found
three in the exhaust pipe.
Ordered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and buttons.
BEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIPE and
SUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.
Inspected with a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!
Installed the NEW cylinder.
Did a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.
Taxied to the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]
Did a Run-Up all was WELL.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?
I have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throttle ON the runway just
before take off.
RPM dropped from 1800 down to 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.
WE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !
Taxied back.
Pulled the spark plug.
And did a Compression check.
Cyl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.
LQQKed inside and the piston had dings all over the face.
Those out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
There was a piece of Valve still in the system.
BUT WAIT!
YES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1
Cylinder INTAKE Spider.
I think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNOW I WAS!
I kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.
I APOLOGIZED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A
NEW CYLINDER. OUCH!
Not happy with my previous inspection – I am my own worst critic - I
pulled off ALL the cylinders.
Upon pulling of Cyl #3--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk
of valve about 3/8" across.
It TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.
So, what do you do ... Do you do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per
above or do you OPEN ALL the INTAKES?
Guess what I am going to do from now on!
And in addition I am going to pull the Carb too!
Barry
'Always a student'
‘A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man learns from
the mistakes of others.'
I made this one – You Learn!
http://forums.matronics.com[/url]http://www.matronics.com/co===================
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamey
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject: LEARN! |
|
|
I still have the valve head in my desk drawer beside me. Not sure I’d call it intact but about 2/3 of it are hereJ The issue occurred over Sausalito just after dark (ugh) on my way back from looking at the Bonanza I ended up buying. Apparently I offended my Tiger. The engine was at right around 1000 hours which is when the exhaust valve issues seem to show up.
Similarly on my Porsche-Diesel tractor when we rebuilt the engine here’s what we saw on the head:
http://tinyurl.com/29na9nw
Little fellow swallowed a nut from the intake at some pointJÂ Those went back on with lock washers and loc-tite!
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:08 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: LEARN!
I had a customer with the same experience over San Francisco bay. He made it to San Rafael. When I pulled the cylinder, the valve head was intact in the cylinder. Lots of dents on the piston. We opted to replace just that cylinder and get it to Auburn. Then, all new ported and polished cylinders.
You're lucky. You might have taken off and had that chunk bounce around in a few other cylinders as well.
I had a turbo Corvair that ingested a washer. It chewed up the turbo that then deposited pieces all though the engine. What a mess.
Gary
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 3:06:00 PM
Subject: LEARN!
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
Hello Gang and Guru's:
I want to extent a learning situation that just happened to me in
hopes of saving someone out there time, money and maybe some one's
life.
I was flying a friend’s plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the pattern.
I announced the 45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very
Rough, Baulked and Kicked.
Landed without additional incident.
Shut down and pulled the prop through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.
Next day did a compression check - Confirmed - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air
rushing out of the exhaust.
Pulled the cylinder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found
three in the exhaust pipe.
Ordered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and buttons.
BEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIPE and
SUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.
Inspected with a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!
Installed the NEW cylinder.
Did a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.
Taxied to the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]
Did a Run-Up all was WELL.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?
I have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throttle ON the runway just
before take off.
RPM dropped from 1800 down to 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.
WE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !
Taxied back.
Pulled the spark plug.
And did a Compression check.
Cyl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.
LQQKed inside and the piston had dings all over the face.
Those out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
There was a piece of Valve still in the system.
BUT WAIT!
YES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1
Cylinder INTAKE Spider.
I think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNOW I WAS!
I kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.
I APOLOGIZED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A
NEW CYLINDER. OUCH!
Not happy with my previous inspection – I am my own worst critic - I
pulled off ALL the cylinders.
Upon pulling of Cyl #3--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk
of valve about 3/8" across.
It TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.
So, what do you do ... Do you do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per
above or do you OPEN ALL the INTAKES?
Guess what I am going to do from now on!
And in addition I am going to pull the Carb too!
Barry
'Always a student'
‘A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man learns from
the mistakes of others.'
I made this one – You Learn!
http://www.ma" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/co===================
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
0123456789
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11:35:00
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: LEARN! |
|
|
Jamey, I didn't know you had a Porsche tractor. What year was it manufactured? Why don't you buy a car? A 356?
Cliff
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamey
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: LEARN! |
|
|
Two tractors actually (restored 1958 Junior 108L and 1961 Super 329 under construction). My in-laws have the cars including 356s. Being a good Midwestern boy I have a weakness for old red tractorsJ How’s your 356 coming? Amazing how similar the engines are to aircraft engines.
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 6:50 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: LEARN!
Jamey, I didn't know you had a Porsche tractor. What year was it manufactured? Why don't you buy a car? A 356?
Cliff
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: James Courtney (jamey(at)jamescourtney.net)
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: LEARN!
I still have the valve head in my desk drawer beside me. Not sure I’d call it intact but about 2/3 of it are hereJ The issue occurred over Sausalito just after dark (ugh) on my way back from looking at the Bonanza I ended up buying. Apparently I offended my Tiger. The engine was at right around 1000 hours which is when the exhaust valve issues seem to show up.
Similarly on my Porsche-Diesel tractor when we rebuilt the engine here’s what we saw on the head:
http://tinyurl.com/29na9nw
Little fellow swallowed a nut from the intake at some pointJ Those went back on with lock washers and loc-tite!
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:08 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: LEARN!
I had a customer with the same experience over San Francisco bay. He made it to San Rafael. When I pulled the cylinder, the valve head was intact in the cylinder. Lots of dents on the piston. We opted to replace just that cylinder and get it to Auburn. Then, all new ported and polished cylinders.
You're lucky. You might have taken off and had that chunk bounce around in a few other cylinders as well.
I had a turbo Corvair that ingested a washer. It chewed up the turbo that then deposited pieces all though the engine. What a mess.
Gary
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 3:06:00 PM
Subject: LEARN!
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
Hello Gang and Guru's:
I want to extent a learning situation that just happened to me in
hopes of saving someone out there time, money and maybe some one's
life.
I was flying a friend’s plane, AA5B, and we just got back to the pattern.
I announced the 45 and just as I did the engine began to run Very
Rough, Baulked and Kicked.
Landed without additional incident.
Shut down and pulled the prop through - NO COMPRESSION on #1.
Next day did a compression check - Confirmed - ZERO COMPRESSION - Air
rushing out of the exhaust.
Pulled the cylinder - Exhaust valve was missing BIG PIECES - Found
three in the exhaust pipe.
Ordered a NEW cylinder - piston, rings, wrist pin, rocker pin and buttons.
BEFORE installing the New cylinder I inspected the INTAKE PIPE and
SUMP SPIDER for any more broken parts of the valve.
Inspected with a light - my fingers and magnet. NONE FOUND!
Installed the NEW cylinder.
Did a short time start up at low RPM and all was WELL.
Taxied to the runway [1000 RPM MAX.]
Did a Run-Up all was WELL.
DO YOU KNOW WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?
I have a habit to do a Run-Up To Full Throttle ON the runway just
before take off.
RPM dropped from 1800 down to 1500. AND the engine Baulked Heavy.
WE AIN'T GOING NO WHERE! ! !
Taxied back.
Pulled the spark plug.
And did a Compression check.
Cyl #1 (The New one) was 60/80.
LQQKed inside and the piston had dings all over the face.
Those out there with experience KNOW what happened ...
There was a piece of Valve still in the system.
BUT WAIT!
YES, I did a Visual - Physical - and - Magnetic Inspection of the #1
Cylinder INTAKE Spider.
I think I was more PISSED than the customer. I KNOW I WAS!
I kicked myself in the ass a few dozen times.
I APOLOGIZED to the customer and PROMISED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF A
NEW CYLINDER. OUCH!
Not happy with my previous inspection – I am my own worst critic - I
pulled off ALL the cylinders.
Upon pulling of Cyl #3--- Guess what fell out of the INTAKE ... a hunk
of valve about 3/8" across.
It TOTALLY ELUDED my inspection.
So, what do you do ... Do you do the STANDARD - Pull & Inspect as per
above or do you OPEN ALL the INTAKES?
Guess what I am going to do from now on!
And in addition I am going to pull the Carb too!
Barry
'Always a student'
‘A smart man learns from his mistakes - An intelligent man learns from
the mistakes of others.'
I made this one – You Learn!
http://www.ma" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/co===================
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution |
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11:35:00 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0 |
123456789 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
0 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
1 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
2 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
3 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
4 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
5 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
6 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
7 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
8 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
9 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
0
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11:36:00
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
