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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:24 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 [quote][b]
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velo
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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We were able to install the180 degree latches from Sean. If you haven’t painted the outside of the doors, these work really great. The latch cam engages early, lining up the door frame for the pins, and the door closes securely. The cam keeps the center of the door tight against the door frame. I don’t know how the door will ever come off when it is latched this way. The installation was simple too.
Rick
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door Latch Redux
Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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I could not see putting the clunky Van’s latch on the airplane. It is just plain ugly. I installed the 180 degree Plane Around system and recommend it with caveats and comments:
<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>It works as advertised but at $470 for the retrofit kit it is overpriced. Perhaps some competition will help drive it down to a more value orientated price.
<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Be very careful not to strip out the threads in the nylon block. I did and ended up with a less than satisfactory repair by melting some of the nylon shaving you get fitting the blocks to fill then re-tap the holes.
<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>I built up the bottom of the door to be flush across the door sill and had already finish painted the interior. Being very careful with a Dremmel Tool I cut a slot for the nylon catch (photos attached). The placement of the catch ended up slightly below the sill and does not interfere with getting in or out of the plane.
<![if !supportLists]>4. <![endif]>I already had the Rivet Head machined pins and pin blocks so I did not purchase the ones from Plane Around.
Carl Froehlich
RV-10 (systems install)
RV-8A (550 hrs)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 4:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door Latch Redux
Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 [/b][/quote]http://forums.matronics.com[/url] - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] [/quote]
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Door Latch Redux |
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I'm going with Matt Banks' mod, that Vern Darley used. I haven't seen anything better yet.
John
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#40572 Phase One complete in 2011 |
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Albert Gardner
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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On the other hand:
I don't believe anyone has lost a door when it was installed properly and then closed properly. The issue seems to be that either the pins do not penetrate the door frame sufficently to secure it or the sealing material makes it more difficult to close the door and the pins were not engaged before flight. I think that if we verify the doors are closed and latched we would have no problem with the existing latch system.
Albert Gardner
N9914RV
Yuma, Az
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door Latch Redux
Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV |
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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Albert
I agree 100% with your post. The problem is, being mere mortals, we will make mistakes. The question is how often and what are the consequences. If we can eliminate the risk, so much the better.
Given there have already been so door departures in flight, it would seem that a little preventative medicine is in order.
Just my $0.02
Cheers
Les
#40643
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: July-07-10 5:45 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door Latch Redux
On the other hand:
I don't believe anyone has lost a door when it was installed properly and then closed properly. The issue seems to be that either the pins do not penetrate the door frame sufficently to secure it or the sealing material makes it more difficult to close the door and the pins were not engaged before flight. I think that if we verify the doors are closed and latched we would have no problem with the existing latch system.
Albert Gardner
N9914RV
Yuma, Az
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door Latch Redux
Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
0 [quote][b]
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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Mine is the touchy feely system. Touch each pin once after the doors are closed and touch each pin again before takeoff. I did remake the pins extra long and cut to length as the location of the latch gear can alter the required length.
[quote] ---
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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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Has anyone had an issue with the doors with the aftermarket pins and aluminum versus plastic that Vans sells in their kits? I know of one builder who upgraded his and tells me his doors close every time now without an issue, which wasn't the case before he installed them.
From: Albert Gardner (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 4:45 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Door Latch Redux
On the other hand:
I don't believe anyone has lost a door when it was installed properly and then closed properly. The issue seems to be that either the pins do not penetrate the door frame sufficently to secure it or the sealing material makes it more difficult to close the door and the pins were not engaged before flight. I think that if we verify the doors are closed and latched we would have no problem with the existing latch system.
Albert Gardner
N9914RV
Yuma, Az
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door Latch Redux
Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
0 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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nukeflyboy
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Door Latch Redux |
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You won't find a consensus on this question. The after market latches look and work good, but I can't see tossing $500 into the fix. The Van's latch, which I have seen and tried on Bill Steppling's 10, works just fine and is free. The two hand operation does not bother me and frankly, I don't know many aircraft doors/canopies that you can operate with one hand.
Doing nothing is not an option for me. Being in the nuclear power business makes me cautious and conservative when it comes to safety. I also know a little about human factors engineering and in my opinion the doors in their unmodified state are an accident waiting to happen.
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_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying |
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Ron.McGann(at)ausawd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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Pascal et al,
I have retained the standard Door design, and simply replaced the Delrin blocks with aluminium ones I made myself from ¼” stock (ie retain the basic Al tube pins). I have no issues with door closure or security.
I do follow Albert’s checklist and confirm pin penetration twice during preflight, and I ALWAYS close the pax side door from the outside.
Cheers
Ron
VH-XRM flying in Oz
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2010 11:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Door Latch Redux
Has anyone had an issue with the doors with the aftermarket pins and aluminum versus plastic that Vans sells in their kits? I know of one builder who upgraded his and tells me his doors close every time now without an issue, which wasn't the case before he installed them.
From: Albert Gardner (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 4:45 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Door Latch Redux
On the other hand:
I don't believe anyone has lost a door when it was installed properly and then closed properly. The issue seems to be that either the pins do not penetrate the door frame sufficently to secure it or the sealing material makes it more difficult to close the door and the pins were not engaged before flight. I think that if we verify the doors are closed and latched we would have no problem with the existing latch system.
Albert Gardner
N9914RV
Yuma, Az
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door Latch Redux
Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
| Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
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AirMike
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: Door Latch Redux - split vote for Vans fix |
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I tend to be in Dave "Nukeflyboy's" camp. I am not that sold on the Van's fix, but I did install it on the Pilot side only. I want to use it for a few months and then tender an opinion before putting it on the passenger side. The two touch system is not that great, but it is a solid item after installation. Installation was about 5 hrs as you want the fix right and exact. The reverse detent is pretty fail safe at low speed, but how it will operate at 100+ kts is a real unknown. I presume that Vans tested it....????,,?>?>??>>???
One bonus is that the fit is loose, so when you land on a hot day you can open the door latch and get a small bit of air in the cabin
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold. |
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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:47 am Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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Ask me at OSH.
I have handles and pins from iflyrv10.com. I’m just finishing trimming the doors and hope to have the hardware installed before OSH.
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:55 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Door Latch Redux
Has anyone had an issue with the doors with the aftermarket pins and aluminum versus plastic that Vans sells in their kits? I know of one builder who upgraded his and tells me his doors close every time now without an issue, which wasn't the case before he installed them.
From: Albert Gardner (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 4:45 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Door Latch Redux
On the other hand:
I don't believe anyone has lost a door when it was installed properly and then closed properly. The issue seems to be that either the pins do not penetrate the door frame sufficently to secure it or the sealing material makes it more difficult to close the door and the pins were not engaged before flight. I think that if we verify the doors are closed and latched we would have no problem with the existing latch system.
Albert Gardner
N9914RV
Yuma, Az
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door Latch Redux
Hi
A few weeks back there was a great thread on door latches.
Is there any consensus as to what the best solution is - Sean's latches / 90 or 180 degree etc? Are there other options worth pursuing? I'll assume that the latches from the iron works at Van's don't make the cut.
Cheers
Les
#40643 0123456789012345678
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler |
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: Door Latch Redux |
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Early on in the discussions Van's said they have not tested the SB latch and it would be too dangerous to test. I tend to agree.
I also agree that if the doors are built correct you should never have a problem with the doors. My indicator light work great, I wired all four pins to one light.
After seeing Sean's system work I was impressed and decided to buy one too. I have really liked it and it makes it almost impossible not to close correctly.
I could have a jacket hanging out the back that may keep the rear pin from going in but I would still have an indicator light on and the cam should keep the door on.
If you are still evaluating the different designs just wait a couple of weeks for Oshkosh.
I also really like his 45 degree pins. I have the stock seals from Van's and my pilot side rear has the largest gap that has problems with the bullet style where the 45 degree system allows you to close the largest gap.
It will be fun opening and closing all the doors and different systems. I want to find a non-bias judge to evaluate all the "third latch" systems and award the winner with something.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 9:39:40 PM
Subject: Re: Door Latch Redux
--> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net (Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net)>
I tend to be in Dave "Nukeflyboy's" camp. I am not that sold on the Van's fix, but I did install it on the Pilot side only. I want to use it for a few months and then tender an opinion before putting it on the passenger side. The two touch system is not that great, but it is a solid item after installation. Installation was about 5 hrs as you want the fix right and exact. The reverse detent is pretty fail safe at low speed, but how it will operate at 100+ kts is a real unknown. I presume that Vans tested it....????,,?>?>??>>???
One bonus is that the fit is loose, so when you land on a hot day you can open the door latch and get a small bit of air in the cabin
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B - finally done
Read this topic online
[quote][b]
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Door Latch Redux |
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| Quote: | I do follow Albert’s checklist and confirm pin penetration twice during preflight, and I ALWAYS close the pax side door from the outside.
Cheers
Ron
VH-XRM flying in Oz |
I would agree but I can see a passenger sweating bullets in a long taxi line finally yanking it open for air, with the apology that they will make sure it's closed before takeoff....
John
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_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011 |
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Ron B.
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 103
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Door Latch Redux |
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I can see someone opening it up after you closed it and went into the hangar to get something you forgot. They are thinking how hard can it be to close? I would rather have a door that others can close . I will still close the door for my passengers but if they mistakenly were the last ones to close the door I would expect it to be close.
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