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Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

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MalcolmH

Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 15

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

After visiting Alec Janaway to buy a s/h mono trailer he demonstrated his UL260i engine which he has fitted to his Escapade a very fine engine it appears as well. More details can be found here:



http://www.ulpower.com/



Vaughn Teegarden from the US is in the process of fitting one but there is no information on the above sight.



They seem a very good engine option, neater and easier to install than the Rotax and prices seem comparable.



So, has anyone else considered fitting one of these engines and if so what were the stumbling blocks that prevented you from going ahead.



I've contacted the factory regarding engine mounts and cowlings and was not able to speak to anyone with any technical authority and still waiting for a response (whats going on there?)



Regards



Malcolm (Europa Mono 121)

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:56 am Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Hi Malcolm,



I studied the drawings a while ago and compared to Rotax. I also visited 

the Ulpower stand at Aero Friedrichshafen.

Items:

1.

- used as is with standard exhaust and standard muffler with cabin heat 

shroud the engine CofG will be a little forward of that of Rotax 914

- plane of propeller about the same

2.

- I would prefer engine between footwells (port rear cylinder just ahead 

of port footwell), but then standard muffler in the way

- extended prop flange is a standard option

- custom exhaust system modification required to put muffler below 

instead of behind rear of sump (or go to a 2-muffler system like C152 

perhaps)

- ulpower do engine mounts (you supply measurements and money)

4.

- new cowling required providing for cylinder head cooling and oil cooling

5.

- the S-models need premium fuel

- I would consider 350i (regular fuel) while  planning not to exceed 

2900rpm /115hp

6.

- which light weight prop for relatively large 4-cylinder direct drive?

- Ulpower have tested Airmaster/Warp on (I believe) 350iS on the ground

A commonly accepted Europa installation would be nice.

Sofar I am still leaning to carburetors, water cooling and gearbox.



Regards,

Jan de Jong



MalcolmH wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 After visiting Alec Janaway to buy a s/h mono trailer he demonstrated his UL260i engine which he has fitted to his Escapade a very fine engine it appears as well. More details can be found here:



 http://www.ulpower.com/



 Vaughn Teegarden from the US is in the process of fitting one but there is no information on the above sight.



 They seem a very good engine option, neater and easier to install than the Rotax and prices seem comparable.



 So, has anyone else considered fitting one of these engines and if so what were the stumbling blocks that prevented you from going ahead.



 I've contacted the factory regarding engine mounts and cowlings and was not able to speak to anyone with any technical authority and still waiting for a response (whats going on there?)



 Regards



 Malcolm (Europa Mono 121)

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:51 pm Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

On 05/11/2010 03:31 PM, MalcolmH wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   So, has anyone else considered fitting one of these engines and if so

 what were the stumbling blocks that prevented you from going ahead.


	


What about fuel consumption?

Compared to the Rotax the combustion chamber is twice as large, and the

RPM is about half of that of the Rotax. Bigger lower revving engines

usually consume more fuel (Compare old style American cars to European

cars).



I found it worrying that on the ulpower site there are even figures for

alternator performance, but not for fuel consumption... Their FAQ seems

to be targetted against Rotax (why not watercooling? why no hydraulic

valve lifters?), but not a single word is spoken about fuel consumption...



With only 50% more fuel consumption than the Rotax, not only operational

costs increases substantially, but the endurance of the Europa decreases

to about two hours, severely limiting flying operation.



So, an answer on the fuel consumption of this engine would be my top

priority, before even looking more closely to the engine.



Frans

MalcolmH

Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 15

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Thanks for your input



1). Length and clash with footwells:

I have the Classic cowlings and I agree the engine length seems to be about 2.5" to 3" to long to be accommodated within these cowlings. I understand the XS cowlings are 4" longer so shouldn't be a problem with these. Of course the foot-wells on the classic aren't as long as the XS so I may have more room to play with. I tried comparing the UL260i with the 912 dimensions and the 912 looks to be even longer (563 as opposed to 523).

ULPOWER have a 3d model of the engine (.stp) which can be downloaded. Does anyone have a 3d model of the europa? 



2). Height

I cant find a measurement for the height of the Rotax engine above the engine centreline; the UL260 is 177mm. Dont know if this would be within the top cowling.



3). Engine Choice

I imagined the 260i at 97hp was more than capable of propelling the Europa. Especially as the 80hp 912UL is a popular choice. The 260i was as smooth running and quiet as the 912UL but without the complication of the dual carbs and water circuit etc. What were your reasons for preferring the higher horsepower model?



4). Cowling

I would hope to apply minor modifications to the classic or XS cowling if a new one is required it wouldn't be for me.



5). Prop

They say that Airmaster/Warp would be a good combination but not flight tested.



6). Fuel Economy.

I agree most manufacturers give fuel economy at say 75% at 10000ft. I've been told (and shown records in a flight log book) that 12 - 15l/hr are being achieved on quite draggy airplanes. The Europa should match this, especially with a CS prop.

I'm currently flying an Ikarus C42 with 912UL and on local flights economy is about 12l/hr but getting back from somewhere into a stiff headwind that goes up to about 15/16l/hr!



7). Prop Speed

I had a private email concerning prop tip speed being high with direct drive engines. I cant get my head round how this should be any different from a geared engine. Any comments.



I would want a fairly trouble free installation, if cowling's foot-wells, exhausts etc need modification I will stick with the 912. 



Thanks again for the inputs so far, any other thoughts?



Regards



Malcolm (Europa Mono 121)



p.s. if anyone does post a comment which warrants a response, you wont get one for a couple of weeks as I'm on holiday from tomorrow

varoum55

Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Hi Malcolm,



This is my first post.  I have been learning about building an A/C for the past 5 years.  An Europa XS monowheel with an ULPower engine would suit me nicely.



I have found this link for the ULPower on Yahoo group discussion  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UL-Power-Aero-Engines/?m=1



The ULPower web site in the FAQ is saying this about using the Jabiru 2200 engine mount:



http://www.ulpower.com/engines/faq/jabiru-mount.html



As for the fuel comsuption, this link is talking about it.  http://www.hyperflite.co.uk/fuel-consumption.html



And also this link as well:  http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YO04TFG9vvROTiXa76QmmY4JBK8Q5aMmzVJ2UsIoy7g6Fx74TkWHDnDnb0Jo-LLdiT9KHAvAhmRy0-yyqRjbqp-qXOEmOpg/Twister%20article%20LA%20Mag%20Dec%202009.pdf



Is the engine mount from Jabiru good for the ULPower 260i engine?



Marc

MontrÃ©al

g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Marc



I am writing this from a UK perspective and things may be different where

you are.



David Stanbridge (owner of Europa) is interested in the UL260i engine but it

is not likely to be followed up in the foreseeable future.  The full cost of

clearing a new engine will run to tens of thousands of (GB)pounds and

probably take at least a year.



To explain this further:-

1) you are going to need a new engine mount, which will need proper stress

calculation and consideration of weight and balance.

2) you will need a new cowl and this will need testing to demonstrate that

the cooling is effective.

3) you will need a suitable prop.  This is more difficult than you may think

due to resonance problems and other issues.



To give an examples, in 1997 Europa did a lot of work on a BMW engine.  This

was dropped when torsional vibration problems could not be overcome.

Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours

Europa Club Mods Specialist

e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com

varoum55

Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Thanks Ian,



Here is a link in French about the engine.  For those not reading French.  The fuel consumption is 12 liters per hour compare to a Rotax at 16 liters per hour.  Also they will have a turbo version with 30HP more for a 6 kilos increase.



For those reading French:  http://www.ulpower.com/news/press/links/14.pdf



There is a FWF installation available in the USA for the CH750 and CH601/650.  Check the link:  http://www.flywithgus.net/FirewallForwardKits.html



Please a FWF for the Europa XS )

RobHousman

Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Irvine, CA

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:10 pm Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

..and for those reading English (apparently with an IP address in an

English speaking country) go to http://www.ulpower.com/



Best regards,



Rob Housman

Irvine, CA 

Europa XS Tri-Gear

A070

Airframe complete



--

Jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Guys,

I remember reading on one of the post or talking to someone about it.  

If you contact Gus at the link below I believe he can tell you, but  

someone has purchased one of the UL engines and is getting ready to  

put it in his Europa. I believe he was close to the end stage on that  

endeavor. Not sure though.



Jeff R.  N128LJ Gold Rush





On Jul 11, 2010, at 8:52 PM, varoum55 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks Ian,



 Here is a link in French about the engine.  For those not reading  

 French.  The fuel consumption is 12 liters per hour compare to a  

 Rotax at 16 liters per hour.  Also they will have a turbo version  

 with 30HP more for a 6 kilos increase.



 For those reading French:  http://www.ulpower.com/news/press/links/14.pdf



 There is a FWF installation available in the USA for the CH750 and  

 CH601/650.  Check the link:  http://www.flywithgus.net/FirewallForwardKits.html



 Please a FWF for the Europa XS )





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304535#304535

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

On Jul 11, 2010, at 7:18 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I remember reading on one of the post or talking to someone about it. If you contact Gus at the link below I believe he can tell you, but someone has purchased one of the UL engines and is getting ready to put it in his Europa. I believe he was close to the end stage on that endeavor. Not sure though.

	




Jeff/All,

That would be Vaugn Teegarden...n914va(at)bvunet.net (n914va(at)bvunet.net)



Fred

BTW, if I were looking for an engine today, I would take a serious look at Eggenfelner's new derivative of the Honda Fit engine, though I'm not crazy about his radiator set up nor it's implications for the cowl...see:

	http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/products/Products.html

(includes two youtube videos)



 [quote][b]

steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:09 am Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

At the recent AeroExpo show at Booker I know that the UL team met with the 

Swift team to discuss the installation in a Europa. I can only echo Ian 

Rickards comments that in the UK it will cost time and money to get the 

installations together and this engine does not necessarily sit as the 

highest priority for the Company at present (I speak as an outsider without 

clear knowledge of Swift's intentions).

I went to have a look at the show stand and discussed the engine with the UL 

team. Not being a qualified engineer it did not mean a lot to me so I cannot 

pass comment on its pros and cons against the Rotax.

All I can say is my 912S continues to work wonders at an economical rate and 

performance.

Regards

Steve Pitt

G-SMDH

---

thoulihan(at)blueyonder.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

The web site is mainly in English and has a number of links to magazine articles in English ( or Czech or German and Dutch)



try www.ulpower.com/



Tim



 On 12 July 2010 02:52, varoum55 <jrmjoseph(at)videotron.ca (jrmjoseph(at)videotron.ca)> wrote:

[quote] --> Europa-List message posted by: "varoum55" <jrmjoseph(at)videotron.ca (jrmjoseph(at)videotron.ca)>

 

 Thanks Ian,

 

 Here is a link in French about the engine.  For those not reading French.  The fuel consumption is 12 liters per hour compare to a Rotax at 16 liters per hour.  Also they will have a turbo version with 30HP more for a 6 kilos increase.

  

 For those reading French:  http://www.ulpower.com/news/press/links/14.pdf

 

 There is a FWF installation available in the USA for the CH750 and CH601/650.  Check the link:  http://www.flywithgus.net/FirewallForwardKits.html

  

 Please a FWF for the Europa XS )

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304535#304535

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

MalcolmH

Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

I have been in contact with Europa and ULS with regard to installation of the UL260i engine.



I fully endorse what Ian and others have said. The Europa is not high on Swifts priorities and although they would be willing to provide data for ULS to design and build an engine mount, thats about as far as it would go. 



ULS have stated to me that they would provide an engine mount, at some cost!! (forget what they quoted)



I have neither the will nor the experience to take on such a job so I'm taking the tried and tested Rotax 912S route. Besides my kit (121) has so far been 15 years in being beautifully built by Gerry Cole (finishing by me) and needs to be flying. So I'm taking the easy option.



I notice on the ULS website that someone has (or is in the process of) fitting one to their XS tri although no link for further info is available. Is that the same as the one referred to in the posts above. Strange, it states the aircraft is being built in the USA but the photo shows a UK registration?

Jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:03 am Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Fred,Thats a very interesting engine and price. As far as autos & bikes go there isn't a better engine than a honda. (My opinion only)

It's nice to see they're pricing it based on normal business practices instead of... "it's what Rotax charges". I love good old competition / capitalism. I'm going to keep an eye on that one.

Regards,



 Jeff R.  N128LJ Gold Rush



 

  

On Jul 11, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Fred Klein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

On Jul 11, 2010, at 7:18 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I remember reading on one of the post or talking to someone about it. If you contact Gus at the link below I believe he can tell you, but someone has purchased one of the UL engines and is getting ready to put it in his Europa. I believe he was close to the end stage on that endeavor. Not sure though.

	




Jeff/All,

That would be Vaugn Teegarden...n914va(at)bvunet.net (n914va(at)bvunet.net)



Fred

BTW, if I were looking for an engine today, I would take a serious look at Eggenfelner's new derivative of the Honda Fit engine, though I'm not crazy about his radiator set up nor it's implications for the cowl...see:

	http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/products/Products.html

(includes two youtube videos)



  	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:14 pm Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

On Jul 12, 2010, at 6:49 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thats a very interesting engine and price. As far as autos & bikes  

 go there isn't a better engine than a honda. (My opinion only)


	


Jeff...I have to agree...BTW, if you drill down within those links I  

sent, I believe you'll find that the Eggenfelner variant is from the  

Honda racing engine which is designed to redline (at) 9 grand and last  

thru a full racing season without any maintenance (or so they claim).



Fred

loboloda(at)execulink.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:51 pm Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Sorry but it can't be done, if it is producing the same horsepower as  

a Rotax it will be burning more or less the same amount of fuel.



Dave C-FBZI  912S

On 11-Jul-10, at 9:52 PM, varoum55 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Here is a link in French about the engine.  For those not reading  

 French.  The fuel consumption is 12 liters per hour compare to a  

 Rotax at 16 liters per hour.  Also they will have a turbo version  

 with 30HP more for a 6 kilos increase.



 For those reading French:  http://www.ulpower.com/news/press/links/ 

 14.pdf



 There is a FWF installation available in the USA for the CH750 and  

 CH601/650.  Check the link:  http://www.flywithgus.net/ 

 FirewallForwardKits.html



 Please a FWF for the Europa XS )





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304535#304535

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

I spoken to Eggenfellner and plan to go see the engine in the next 60 days - not sure I will learn much but I always have to see stuff.

 

 He tells me that a turbo normalized version in on the way as well.

 

 I tend to agree Honda quality has always been pretty good.

 

 I understand that Bowman in Canada has been flying behind a CAM100 but I can get hold of him to ask.  As i understand his solution was to have two radiators.

 

 Anyway once i have seen it I will report back.

 

 Will

 

 

 

 JEFF ROBERTS wrote: [quote]Fred,   Thats a very interesting engine and price. As far as autos & bikes go there isn't a better engine than a honda. (My opinion only)

   It's nice to see they're pricing it based on normal business practices instead of... "it's what Rotax charges". I love good old competition / capitalism. I'm going to keep an eye on that one.

   

   

   Regards,

   

         Jeff R.  N128LJ Gold Rush

   

   

   

         

   

      On Jul 11, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Fred Klein wrote:

       	  Quote: 	
		       

          On Jul 11, 2010, at 7:18 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:

           	  Quote: 	
		  I remember reading on one of the post or talking to someone about it. If you contact Gus at the link below I believe he can tell you, but someone has purchased one of the UL engines and is getting ready to put it in his Europa. I believe he was close to the end stage on that endeavor. Not sure though.

       	
     

     

     Jeff/All,

     

     

     That would be Vaugn Teegarden...n914va(at)bvunet.net (n914va(at)bvunet.net)

     

     Fred

     

     

     BTW, if I were looking for an engine today, I would take a serious look at Eggenfelner's new derivative of the Honda Fit engine, though I'm not crazy about his radiator set up nor it's implications for the cowl...see:

     

     

           http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/products/Products.html

     

     

     (includes two youtube videos)

     

     

     

      	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
     

   



 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
 [b]

Galaxy UL Power Engines

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Wing Farm Wiltshire England

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine. UK Agent.

Hi all.



 I am Mark Jones from Galaxy Microlights down at Wing Farm in  Wiltshire and I am a UK Dealer for the UL Power Engines. I Have a UL260i fitted to my Escapade Microlight and it will be available for engine demonstrations very soon once I have the noise test completed.



 I have been talking with Europa and some interested builders ref fitting the UL260i engine for a while now and as I understand it there are a good number of builders interest.



 As far as firewall forward is concerned, UL Power via, Galaxy Microlights, can supply an engine mount for the Europa but I will need some data to be able to design, build, test and supply the mount ready to fit.  I am also looking into the cowling's for the UL260i installation too, but I will need an aircraft with and engine fitted to be able to get the best design. 



  All sales and parts supply are through the UK agents and I am obviously willing to discuss the engine with you and how we can help with an installation in a Europa. I will endeavor to answer most of the questions you are likely to put to me. 



 I supply the engine as a FULL engine package, which includes all parts to fit and run the engine in its basic instalation. Nothing else to buy. The package also incudes the crate, shipping, VAT and 4 ltrs of oil. The engine mount, propellor and cowls will be at additional cost at this stage, but I hope to do a full package once it has all been perfected, fitted and proven.



 Best Regards

Mark Jones

07841 614577

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

In response to Mark's post, l have experience of submitting Mods to the LAA, especially structural and powerplant installations.  I have various delegated authority signatures, inc active work as a CVE for submissions to the UK CAA and major suppliers to the Aerospace world.



The UL260i is used by Lambert Aircraft in their M106 and M108 planes.  I have a good relationship with them, l am sure Filip will divulge some real-world issues and running costs.  We recently did a comparison against the Rotax 912ULS for a foreign client - l was very surprised by the relative operational merits of the UL260i.



If Mark is willing to fulfil:



 	  Quote: 	
		  As far as firewall forward is concerned, UL Power via, Galaxy Microlights, can supply an engine mount for the Europa but I will need some data to be able to design, build, test and supply the mount ready to fit. I am also looking into the cowling's for the UL260i installation too, but I will need an aircraft with and engine fitted to be able to get the best design. 	




It is normal for us to be able to clear a new engine mount/installation by stress analysis.  This reduces the onus on tests.  We do this using FE tools and hand calcs showing compliance to the chosen regs.  Depending on whether Galaxy wishes to retain IPR for the mount or not we could introduce it as a Standard Mod (with Ian Rickard doing his stuff from the Europa Club).  This is subject to discussion.



Technically the stress analysis requirement is clear, we already have a cockpit and mount FE model (used for the Flyer Mag Europa with BRS and RV style taildragger gear) which is validated.  A mount for the UL engine would be drawn up and evaluated/optimised.  Some extrapolation of loads based on potential prop/hub combinations would be made (to avoid additional incremental mods later on).  We consider the inertial, gyroscopic and torsional loading.  Influence on whole aircraft inertias should be minimal provided the mass/CG is not too different.



We do not yet have a CAD model of the standard cowl, this is desirable as a clash analysis (using a CAD engine/installation) can be done which will enable clearances to be defined.  A CAD model could be generated quickly using some 3D scanning equipment and any standard Europa (any member have access to this?).  This would be a good opportunity to optimise the inlet/outlet areas (to prevent the same situation as with the XS).



It is s shame that Swift is too busy to assist with this task.  Speaking to their guys at AeroExpo it is evident that a lot of things are happening in the background. As with most things in this world, supply and demand dictate progress.



Regards

JW

Galaxy UL Power Engines

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Wing Farm Wiltshire England

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine

Here in the UK Galaxy UL Engines is working with a customer at the moment to fit a UL260iS 107hp engine to a Europa Swiss Taildragger in place of a Subaru.  Work is in progress, engine mout sorted.



 We hope to have  the Basic demonstrated instalation ready for the Flying Show at NEC over the weekend of 26 -27 Nov.



 Regards

Mark Jones

Galaxy UL Engines

UK UL Power Agent.

07841 614577

_________________
"If a Test Pilot tells you something thats so bloody complicated you don't understand it, then its all Balls" R,J Mitchell

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