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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

I happen to look through a recent Trade a Plane paper and noticed two very low time( under 200 hrs)RV10s for sale. Both had IO 540s and at least one had a three blade MT prop. They had a good instrument cluster, paint and looked finished. 

  

 I was quite surprised at the low asking prices, one was 178k and the other was around 180K. For such low hours, unknown whether these are rebuilt engines, I found it a little depressing. I have about 160K into my plane and sparce instrumentation.  I built it for the mission,  have no other desires and I am very please with the results. I am almost finished. If I sold for 20K over cost, and I have nearly 2300hours on a QB wing and Fuse, of course I made mods that make it not too stock, I would have paid myself eight dollars an hour. 

  

 I know the market is depressed, but! 

  

 I guess I will have to believe I am comparing apples and oranges. My highest paid employee in the dental office gets paid a little over four times that amount. 

  

 What's up!

  

 JOhn Gonzalez 409, engine sensor connections

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

I too am surprised at low sale values on RV-10's. To find  a comparable new aircraft you would spend around 300+.  I guess the whole  amateur built thing doesn't help.  Knowing what I know now, I would not be  hesitant to buy a used RV-10 because they are such a good buy.  After  building one (not done yet) it would be easy to see if the build was  subpar. So I think it is only education to the buyer that is needed to get the  resale higher.

 [quote]   ---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Yep, that's the depressed market.  We're probably at the point now

where our planes are worth just what we paid, and nothing for

the labor...since they're only worth what someone can/will pay.

Combine that with the fact that with 300 flying, RV-10's are

now common enough that if you want one, there are some you

can buy....it's not like 10 people are shopping and there's only

1 plane to purchase. Add in that many builders built theirs

to sell, so it brought prices down by increasing supply.



Now, if they end up having the 100LL issue, then what MAY

end up being more valuable are carbureted O-540 RV-10's

with 8:1 pistons, since lower compression might keep

those planes flying on Premium Auto fuel.



But, I know I said it long ago and others have too...you're

building this plane for YOU, and if you fly it and keep

it and maintain it, it should treat you nice and help keep

your costs lower than if you bought something "off the shelf".



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive



On 7/21/2010 10:38 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I happen to look through a recent Trade a Plane paper and noticed two

 very low time( under 200 hrs)RV10s for sale. Both had IO 540s and at

 least one had a three blade MT prop. They had a good instrument cluster,

 paint and looked finished.



 I was quite surprised at the low asking prices, one was 178k and the

 other was around 180K. For such low hours, unknown whether these are

 rebuilt engines, I found it a little depressing. I have about 160K into

 my plane and sparce instrumentation. I built it for the mission, have no

 other desires and I am very please with the results. I am almost

 finished. If I sold for 20K over cost, and I have nearly 2300hours on a

 QB wing and Fuse, of course I made mods that make it not too stock, I

 would have paid myself eight dollars an hour.



 I know the market is depressed, but!



 I guess I will have to believe I am comparing apples and oranges. My

 highest paid employee in the dental office gets paid a little over four

 times that amount.



 *What's up!*



 JOhn Gonzalez 409, engine sensor connections



 *

 *

bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

John, welcome to the world of experimental aviation where we build to learn.  Very rarely will you ever see a homebuilt sell for what’s into it, especially one that’s been flown a bit (not “spec” built).  I have almost 100K into my RV7A and I’m sure there’s no way I could sell it for anything near that with 300 hrs on it.  Our RV10 will be the same way, we’ll have 200K into it the day its done, and even with G900, new engine and prop etc…the market won’t pay me a cent for my labor…  

But we have nice airplanes and that’s what its about.  

   

Bob Brown  

40871  

fwf  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez

 Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:39 AM

 To: RV 10 group

 Subject: Resale on RV 10  

  

  

   

I happen to look through a recent Trade a Plane paper and noticed two very low time( under 200 hrs)RV10s for sale. Both had IO 540s and at least one had a three blade MT prop. They had a good instrument cluster, paint and looked finished. 

  

 I was quite surprised at the low asking prices, one was 178k and the other was around 180K. For such low hours, unknown whether these are rebuilt engines, I found it a little depressing. I have about 160K into my plane and sparce instrumentation.  I built it for the mission,  have no other desires and I am very please with the results. I am almost finished. If I sold for 20K over cost, and I have nearly 2300hours on a QB wing and Fuse, of course I made mods that make it not too stock, I would have paid myself eight dollars an hour. 

  

 I know the market is depressed, but! 

  

 I guess I will have to believe I am comparing apples and oranges. My highest paid employee in the dental office gets paid a little over four times that amount. 

  

 What's up!

  

 JOhn Gonzalez 409, engine sensor connections   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
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       [quote][b]

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

I sure wish someone had explained the birds and the bees to me 6 

years ago. It sure sounded like fun back then, but now upon hearing even 

this news, makes me wonder what kind of insanity i inflicted upon 

myself. I will gladly save them some sanity, and tell them to buy a 

flying aircraft, like most other sane people do!



Jae

40533 still

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

I can see another primer war on the horizon.....



Deems  - packing up the money sucking monster for another excursion to 

fulfill a dream - Davis

 	  Quote:

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Ahhh, but then it isn't such a bargain for the buyer.

If YOU build it, and YOU keep it, YOU are the repair person

and you don't have to pay gobs of money for maintenance

on it....and YOU have the skills to rebuild any banged

up parts from hangar rash, and so on.  But if someone

else buys it, they're going to have annual inspection costs,

and many buyers won't have the skill to build parts

and save money, and they'll pay for maintenance.  I could

have saved a ton of money on the actual airplane if I

had just bought a used Bonanza, and they're nice planes.

But you'll not only get as good or better performance, but

lower maintenance costs, if you build...plus, it's a zero-timed

airframe, which is worth a lot in itself.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 7/21/2010 12:14 PM, Jae Chang wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I sure wish someone had explained the birds and the bees to me 6 years

 ago. It sure sounded like fun back then, but now upon hearing even this

 news, makes me wonder what kind of insanity i inflicted upon myself. I

 will gladly save them some sanity, and tell them to buy a flying

 aircraft, like most other sane people do!



 Jae

 40533 still

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Jae



It is the journey not the destination that makes building fun (albeit

frustrating at times). I am having a wonderful time turning AL into scrap,

epoxy into dust while watching my hair grow greyer. No second thoughts here

(at least today!).



Cheers



Les



#40643 - Off to KOSH in 2 days



--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

I can't believe what I'm hearing.... sorry guys, I thought we built the airplane to not only experience the build, but to fly it.... for many years.  No one could have told me how much I was going to enjoy the build, coupled with the satisfaction and special feelings that you have when it finally flies.  This should go down as one of ones best lifetime achievements and so much to be proud of.  Then as a bonus, we have the opportunity to be part of an extended family.  Hate to think I'd buy the house of my dreams and then sit around and worry about it's FMV.  

 Sorry, I guess that's my 4 cents worth.

 Don McDonald

 Now living in a great airpark and flying an unbelievable plane.



--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>

Subject: Re: Resale on RV 10

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:14 AM



 --> RV10-List message posted by: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com (jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com)>



    I sure wish someone had explained the birds and the bees to me 6 years ago. It sure sounded like fun back then, but now upon hearing even this news, makes me wonder what kind of insanity i inflicted upon myself. I will gladly save them some sanity, and tell them to buy a flying aircraft, like most other sane people do!



Jae

4.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.co========================



	


 [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

I concur...If my shop burned down I would find a way to order another as 

soon as I can with a smile on my face : )



---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

And don’t forget the modern avionics.   

   

Your choice is this (at best):  

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CB28C4.6D0FBC80[/img]  

   

Or this:  

[img]cid:image004.jpg(at)01CB28C6.71573F50[/img]  

   

I have a certified 6 place plane that I spent $3,800 on an Auto Pilot repair less than 90 flight hours ago. The AP is now DOA. If I were to have it repaired again it COULD be closer to $12,000. How long can I expect that to last? Who knows but with OBAM and the products available to the Experimental market you will spend less and have better performance riding in all new hardware rather than something well over 30 years old.   

By the way I am selling a certified plane at the end of this week for just under $100K that I have over $170K “invested”. The RV-10 is looking like a better value every day. If you take the long view of a plane built for $200K, flown for 10 years and sold for $165K  that equates to a $292 base monthly cost. Not free but not bad either. If you buy a $200K Bentley and drive it sparingly for 10 years it may be worth $50K that is why I have sworn off of any more Bentley’s. J  

   

To Tim’s point of professional builders driving down the price of -10’s in the used market place. I suspect the “professional builders” will build one or maybe two before they come to the same conclusion; “I am earning minimum wage” while having a lot of $ wrapped in the plane.   

   

Flying a plane you build and maintain: PRICELESS  

   

Robin  

Do Not Archive  

   

   

   

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Amen Brother!  You said it.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 7/21/2010 12:52 PM, Don McDonald wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I can't believe what I'm hearing.... sorry guys, I thought we built the

 airplane to not only experience the build, but to fly it.... for many

 years. No one could have told me how much I was going to enjoy the

 build, coupled with the satisfaction and special feelings that you have

 when it finally flies. This should go down as one of ones best lifetime

 achievements and so much to be proud of. Then as a bonus, we have the

 opportunity to be part of an extended family. Hate to think I'd buy the

 house of my dreams and then sit around and worry about it's FMV.

 Sorry, I guess that's my 4 cents worth.

 Don McDonald

 Now living in a great airpark and flying an unbelievable plane.



 --- On *Wed, 7/21/10, Jae Chang /<jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>/* wrote:

     From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>

     Subject: Re: Resale on RV 10

     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:14 AM



     

     <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com

     <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>>



     I sure wish someone had explained the birds and the bees to me 6

     years ago. It sure sounded like fun back then, but now upon hearing

     even this news, makes me wonder what kind of insanity i inflicted

     upon myself. I will gladly save them some sanity, and tell them to

     buy a flying aircraft, like most other sane people do!



     Jae

     4.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"

     target=_blank>http://www.matronics.co========================



 *

 *

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:54 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Well said Don and Robin. 

Building and Flying a airplane you built has always been my dream. And every

time I fly my Rv-10 my grin gets bigger. I had so much fun building and the

best thing was meeting all the people building and flying there RV-10s. New

friends for life what can be better.



Geoff 

Geoff Combs

President

Aerosport Modeling & Design

8090 Howe Industrial Parkway 

Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110

614-834-5227p

614-834-5230f

www.aerosportmodeling.com

--

_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:54 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Since the beginning of time, when Randy first rolled out #40006, I have kept a database of every listed, sold and rescended RV-10 that passed over the net. Some can slip by but not many.  Boy do I have a lot of pictures of finished ones. It has been enlightening to say the least to see the number of non(yet to be licensed) pilots, RC pilots, and First Time offenders who have taken the plunge... Successfully.  And yes, I was onboard back in the day of James McClow and his progress to that point.  

  

 It has been amazing at the number of flying RV-10s that go "Listed" shortly after the build is complete.  I do not believe it is about the lousy fiberglass fabbed parts.  I do conclude it is the "Walter Mitty" in all of us.  Flying all over the US to do EAA Tech Inspections I get to see the good, the bad, the ugly and occassionally the exceptional build one .  Some guys are just skilled at caressing rivets.  Others are great at fabrication of carbon-fiber, avionics and ingenious improvements for the rest of us.  Some just have a pot of money to spend in the happiness of life's pursuits.

  

 For me, the RV-10 is a 21st Century Commanche with the perks of having "The Pride of Owner Built and Maintained".  Tim's site had a lot to do with the progress, ideas, motivation and what to do to tackle what initially seemed in-surmountable.  My last annual on a Beech B-95 Travel Air confirmed that any RV-10 is better than any certificated production aircraft (yes even a Cirrus).

  

 The marketplace has taken a major hit in the last five years.  Financial Markets reflect it and we are now postured to see a rebirth or resurgence  of activity.  There have been too many soles lost, there can always be improvements to what we do.  The current pricing reflects natural economic forces.  Supply/Demand/Risk/Profit.  For those waivering, STAY THE COURSE.  A less than completed kit is worth far less than the cost of just the parts.  The finished product is almost always worth more.  The accomplishment cannot be priced.  Take a moment and ask a repeat offender "Why?"  Surround yourselves with positive influences and share the journey with others.  Too quickly we forget our friend from Muscle Shoals who was doing quite well producing them in volume.  They are just a great all around project.

  

 If I began with all the names of friends, techniques learned, smiles encountered I would be even more verbose.  I am going to miss the Colliver's this week and wish them the best when they finally do cross the pond.

  

 This is a fine group of the best builders in the OBAM market - Worldwide.  Keep the faith.  The RV-10 has moved far beyond the niche market of a Lancair, an Epic, a GlaStar or other model VANS.  The beers will be on me at Camp Swampy.  See ya all in 2 days.

  

 Oh yeh and those beautiful ole DC-3s. Bring the "Big One ON!"

  

  



  John Cox



 

  From: Tim Olson

Sent: Wed 7/21/2010 9:02 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Resale on RV 10

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson mailto:Tim(at)myrv10.com%3EYep,%20that's%20the%20depressed%20market.%20%20We're%20probably%20at%20the%20point%20nowwhere%20our%20planes%20are%20worth%20just%20what%20we%20paid,%20and%20nothing%20forthe%20labor...since%20they're%20only%20worth%20what%20someone%20can/will%20pay.Combine%20that%20with%20the%20fact%20that%20with%20300%20flying,%20RV-10's%20arenow%20common%20enough%20that%20if%20you%20want%20one,%20there%20are%20some%20youcan%20buy....it's%20not%20like%2010%20people%20are%20shopping%20and%20there's%20only1%20plane%20to%20purchase.%20Add%20in%20that%20many%20builders%20built%20theirsto%20sell,%20so%20it%20brought%20prices%20down%20by%20increasing%20supply.Now,%20if%20they%20end%20up%20having%20the%20100LL%20issue,%20then%20what%20MAYend%20up%20being%20more%20valuable%20are%20carbureted%20O-540%20RV-10'swith%208:1%20pistons,%20since%20lower%20compression%20might%20keepthose%20planes%20flying%20on%20Premium%20Auto%20fuel.But,%20I%20know%20I%20said%20it%20long%20ago%20and%20others%20have%20too...you'rebuilding%20this%20plane%20for%20YOU,%20and%20if%20you%20fly%20it%20and%20keepit%20and%20maintain%20it,%20it%20should%20treat%20you%20nice%20and%20help%20keepyour%20costs%20lower%20than%20if%20you%20bought%20something%20%22off%20the%20shelf%22.Tim%20Olson%20-%20RV-10%20N104CDdo%20not%20archiveOn%207/21/2010%2010:38%20AM,%20John%20Gonzalez%20wrote: ([email]Tim(at)myrv10.com%3EYep,%20that\'s%20the%20depressed%20market.%20%20We\'re%20probably%20at%20the%20point%20nowwhere%20our%20planes%20are%20worth%20just%20what%20we%20paid,%20and%20nothing%20forthe%20labor...since%20they\'re%20only%20worth%20what%20someone%20can/will%20pay.Combine%20that%20with%20the%20fact%20that%20with%20300%20flying,%20RV-10\'s%20arenow%20common%20enough%20that%20if%20you%20want%20one,%20there%20are%20some%20youcan%20buy....it\'s%20not%20like%2010%20people%20are%20shopping%20and%20there\'s%20only1%20plane%20to%20purchase.%20Add%20in%20that%20many%20builders%20built%20theirsto%20sell,%20so%20it%20brought%20prices%20down%20by%20increasing%20supply.Now,%20if%20they%20end%20up%20having%20the%20100LL%20issue,%20then%20what%20MAYend%20up%20being%20more%20valuable%20are%20carbureted%20O-540%20RV-10\'swith%208:1%20pistons,%20since%20lower%20compression%20might%20keepthose%20planes%20flying%20on%20Premium%20Auto%20fuel.But,%20I%20know%20I%20said%20it%20long%20ago%20and%20others%20have%20too...you\'rebuilding%20this%20plane%20for%20YOU,%20and%20if%20you%20fly%20it%20and%20keepit%20and%20maintain%20it,%20it%20should%20treat%20you%20nice%20and%20help%20keepyour%20costs%20lower%20than%20if%20you%20bought%20something%20%22off%20the%20shelf%22.Tim%20Olson%20-%20RV-10%20N104CDdo%20not%20archiveOn%207/21/2010%2010:38%20AM,%20John%20Gonzalez%20wrote:[/email])

 	  Quote: 	
		   *What's up!*



 JOhn Gonzalez 409, engine sensor connections



 *

 *


	




[b]

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

I'll add that one could get a Cirrus Xi but it still would  never meet the customizing level we have with our planes and never even come  close to price.

  

 I'm with Don, the enjoyment I have received building this  plane has surpassed any other accomplishment I have done in the past. The  satisfaction of knowing this plane is exactly the way I designed it to look and  be is worth all the work and burnout's I go through. I'll be even more glad that  I know this plane so well that I can save a whole lot of money doing my own  work.. and knowing the engine or the crossed cables wont fail after an  annual since I know what "I" did to assure that..

 The day the FAA takes that privilege away from a builder will  be a sad day indeed..

  

 As long as the plane sits in the garage waiting for more  customizing, prices out there mean nothing, when I go to register the plane,  comparable pricing will be everything when the California taxman cometh, shame  that the plane isn't ready yet. When I go to sell it than it will be important,  until than let the economy make my purchases that much more  "affordable".

  

  

 Pascal

 



   From: Don McDonald (building_partner(at)yahoo.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:52 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Resale on RV 10

 



                   I can't believe what I'm hearing.... sorry guys, I thought we built        the airplane to not only experience the build, but to fly it.... for many        years.  No one could have told me how much I was going to enjoy the        build, coupled with the satisfaction and special feelings that you have        when it finally flies.  This should go down as one of ones best        lifetime achievements and so much to be proud of.  Then as a bonus,        we have the opportunity to be part of an extended family.  Hate to        think I'd buy the house of my dreams and then sit around and worry about        it's FMV.  

       Sorry, I guess that's my 4 cents worth.

       Don McDonald

       Now living in a great airpark and flying an unbelievable        plane.



--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Jae Chang        <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> wrote:



        	  Quote: 	
		  

From:          Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>

Subject: Re: RV10-List:          Resale on RV 10

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, July          21, 2010, 10:14 AM



         --> RV10-List message posted by: Jae Chang          <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com (jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com)>



             I sure wish someone had explained the birds and the bees to me 6          years ago. It sure sounded like fun back then, but now upon hearing even          this news, makes me wonder what kind of insanity i inflicted upon          myself. I will gladly save them some sanity, and tell them to buy a          flying aircraft, like most other sane people          do!



Jae

4.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"          target=_blank>http://www.matronics.co========================



	


[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

woodsie

Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: New Zealand

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:18 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

My 3 boys and I just finished our vertical stabiliser and man, we are pretty proud of that.  We all just sat back and looked at this shiny piece of aluminium and thought  - cool!  we just built part of an aeroplane!  It is one of the first things we have done together that actually has them scrambling to ditch the playstation and get on the tools when Dad gets home.  Wouldn’t trade it for anything.  

Tony Woods  

Bring on the Rudder!  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox

 Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2010 6:54 a.m.

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Resale on RV 10  

Since the beginning of time, when Randy first rolled out #40006, I have kept a database of every listed, sold and rescended RV-10 that passed over the net. Some can slip by but not many.  Boy do I have a lot of pictures of finished ones. It has been enlightening to say the least to see the number of non(yet to be licensed) pilots, RC pilots, and First Time offenders who have taken the plunge... Successfully.  And yes, I was onboard back in the day of James McClow and his progress to that point.    

It has been amazing at the number of flying RV-10s that go "Listed" shortly after the build is complete.  I do not believe it is about the lousy fiberglass fabbed parts.  I do conclude it is the "Walter Mitty" in all of us.  Flying all over the US to do EAA Tech Inspections I get to see the good, the bad, the ugly and occassionally the exceptional build one .  Some guys are just skilled at caressing rivets.  Others are great at fabrication of carbon-fiber, avionics and ingenious improvements for the rest of us.  Some just have a pot of money to spend in the happiness of life's pursuits.  

For me, the RV-10 is a 21st Century Commanche with the perks of having "The Pride of Owner Built and Maintained".  Tim's site had a lot to do with the progress, ideas, motivation and what to do to tackle what initially seemed in-surmountable.  My last annual on a Beech B-95 Travel Air confirmed that any RV-10 is better than any certificated production aircraft (yes even a Cirrus).  

The marketplace has taken a major hit in the last five years.  Financial Markets reflect it and we are now postured to see a rebirth or resurgence  of activity.  There have been too many soles lost, there can always be improvements to what we do.  The current pricing reflects natural economic forces.  Supply/Demand/Risk/Profit.  For those waivering, STAY THE COURSE.  A less than completed kit is worth far less than the cost of just the parts.  The finished product is almost always worth more.  The accomplishment cannot be priced.  Take a moment and ask a repeat offender "Why?"  Surround yourselves with positive influences and share the journey with others.  Too quickly we forget our friend from Muscle Shoals who was doing quite well producing them in volume.  They are just a great all around project.  

If I began with all the names of friends, techniques learned, smiles encountered I would be even more verbose.  I am going to miss the Colliver's this week and wish them the best when they finally do cross the pond.  

This is a fine group of the best builders in the OBAM market - Worldwide.  Keep the faith.  The RV-10 has moved far beyond the niche market of a Lancair, an Epic, a GlaStar or other model VANS.  The beers will be on me at Camp Swampy.  See ya all in 2 days.  

Oh yeh and those beautiful ole DC-3s. Bring the "Big One ON!"  

John Cox  

From: Tim Olson

 Sent: Wed 7/21/2010 9:02 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Resale on RV 10  

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson mailto:Tim(at)myrv10.com%3EYep,%20that's%20the%20depressed%20market.%20%20We're%20probably%20at%20the%20point%20nowwhere%20our%20planes%20are%20worth%20just%20what%20we%20paid,%20and%20nothing%20forthe%20labor...since%20they're%20only%20worth%20what%20someone%20can/will%20pay.Combine%20that%20with%20the%20fact%20that%20with%20300%20flying,%20RV-10's%20arenow%20common%20enough%20that%20if%20you%20want%20one,%20there%20are%20some%20youcan%20buy....it's%20not%20like%2010%20people%20are%20shopping%20and%20there's%20only1%20plane%20to%20purchase.%20Add%20in%20that%20many%20builders%20built%20theirsto%20sell,%20so%20it%20brought%20prices%20down%20by%20increasing%20supply.Now,%20if%20they%20end%20up%20having%20the%20100LL%20issue,%20then%20what%20MAYend%20up%20being%20more%20valuable%20are%20carbureted%20O-540%20RV-10'swith%208:1%20pistons,%20since%20lower%20compression%20might%20keepthose%20planes%20flying%20on%20Premium%20Auto%20fuel.But,%20I%20know%20I%20said%20it%20long%20ago%20and%20others%20have%20too...you'rebuilding%20this%20plane%20for%20YOU,%20and%20if%20you%20fly%20it%20and%20keepit%20and%20maintain%20it,%20it%20should%20treat%20you%20nice%20and%20help%20keepyour%20costs%20lower%20than%20if%20you%20bought%20something%20%22off%20the%20shelf%22.Tim%20Olson%20-%20RV-10%20N104CDdo%20not%20archiveOn%207/21/2010%2010:38%20AM,%20John%20Gonzalez%20wrote:> *What's up!*> > JOhn Gonzalez 409, engine sensor connections> > *> > > * > *What's up!* 	
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_________________
Woodsie
waiting for Empennage to arrive Smile

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:38 am Post subject: Resale on RV 10

One section at a time and each time there is the same level of  satisfaction when completed.

 Just wait until you get to the composites, they'll be  scrambling alright!!

 Pascal

  From: Tony Woods (twoods(at)sesa.af) 

 Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:16 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Resale on RV 10

My 3  boys and I just finished our vertical stabiliser and man, we are pretty proud of  that.  We all just sat back and looked at this shiny piece of aluminium and  thought  - cool!  we just built part of an aeroplane!  It is one  of the first things we have done together that actually has them scrambling to  ditch the playstation and get on the tools when Dad gets home.  Wouldn’t  trade it for anything. 

Tony Woods 

Bring on the  Rudder! 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John  Cox

Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2010 6:54 a.m.

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Resale on RV  10

Since the beginning of  time, when Randy first rolled out #40006, I have kept a database of every  listed, sold and rescended RV-10 that passed over the net. Some can slip by  but not many.  Boy do I have a lot of pictures of finished ones. It has  been enlightening to say the least to see the number of non(yet to be licensed)  pilots, RC pilots, and First Time offenders who have taken the plunge...  Successfully.  And yes, I was onboard back in the day of James McClow and  his progress to that point.  

It has been  amazing at the number of flying RV-10s that go "Listed" shortly after the build  is complete.  I do not believe it is about the lousy fiberglass fabbed  parts.  I do conclude it is the "Walter Mitty" in all of us.  Flying  all over the US to do EAA Tech Inspections I get to see the good, the bad, the  ugly and occassionally the exceptional build one .  Some guys are just  skilled at caressing rivets.  Others are great at fabrication of  carbon-fiber, avionics and ingenious improvements for the rest of us.  Some  just have a pot of money to spend in the happiness of life's  pursuits.

For me, the  RV-10 is a 21st Century Commanche with the perks of having "The Pride of Owner  Built and Maintained".  Tim's site had a lot to do with the progress,  ideas, motivation and what to do to tackle what initially seemed  in-surmountable.  My last annual on a Beech B-95 Travel Air confirmed that  any RV-10 is better than any certificated production aircraft (yes even a  Cirrus).

The  marketplace has taken a major hit in the last five years.  Financial  Markets reflect it and we are now postured to see a rebirth or resurgence   of activity.  There have been too many soles lost, there can always be  improvements to what we do.  The current pricing reflects natural economic  forces.  Supply/Demand/Risk/Profit.  For those waivering, STAY THE  COURSE.  A less than completed kit is worth far less than the cost of just  the parts.  The finished product is almost always worth more.  The  accomplishment cannot be priced.  Take a moment and ask a repeat offender  "Why?"  Surround yourselves with positive influences and share the journey  with others.  Too quickly we forget our friend from Muscle Shoals who was  doing quite well producing them in volume.  They are just a great all  around project.

If I began  with all the names of friends, techniques learned, smiles encountered I would be  even more verbose.  I am going to miss the Colliver's this week and wish  them the best when they finally do cross the pond.

This is a  fine group of the best builders in the OBAM market - Worldwide.  Keep the  faith.  The RV-10 has moved far beyond the niche market of a Lancair, an  Epic, a GlaStar or other model VANS.  The beers will be on me at Camp  Swampy.  See ya all in 2 days.

Oh yeh and  those beautiful ole DC-3s. Bring the "Big One ON!"

John  Cox

From: Tim  Olson

Sent: Wed 7/21/2010 9:02 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Resale on RV  10

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson mailto:Tim(at)myrv10.com%3EYep,%20that's%20the%20depressed%20market.%20%20We're%20probably%20at%20the%20point%20nowwhere%20our%20planes%20are%20worth%20just%20what%20we%20paid,%20and%20nothing%20forthe%20labor...since%20they're%20only%20worth%20what%20someone%20can/will%20pay.Combine%20that%20with%20the%20fact%20that%20with%20300%20flying,%20RV-10's%20arenow%20common%20enough%20that%20if%20you%20want%20one,%20there%20are%20some%20youcan%20buy....it's%20not%20like%2010%20people%20are%20shopping%20and%20there's%20only1%20plane%20to%20purchase.%20Add%20in%20that%20many%20builders%20built%20theirsto%20sell,%20so%20it%20brought%20prices%20down%20by%20increasing%20supply.Now,%20if%20they%20end%20up%20having%20the%20100LL%20issue,%20then%20what%20MAYend%20up%20being%20more%20valuable%20are%20carbureted%20O-540%20RV-10'swith%208:1%20pistons,%20since%20lower%20compression%20might%20keepthose%20planes%20flying%20on%20Premium%20Auto%20fuel.But,%20I%20know%20I%20said%20it%20long%20ago%20and%20others%20have%20too...you'rebuilding%20this%20plane%20for%20YOU,%20and%20if%20you%20fly%20it%20and%20keepit%20and%20maintain%20it,%20it%20should%20treat%20you%20nice%20and%20help%20keepyour%20costs%20lower%20than%20if%20you%20bought%20something%20%22off%20the%20shelf%22.Tim%20Olson%20-%20RV-10%20N104CDdo%20not%20archiveOn%207/21/2010%2010:38%20AM,%20John%20Gonzalez%20wrote: ([email]Tim(at)myrv10.com%3EYep,%20that\'s%20the%20depressed%20market.%20%20We\'re%20probably%20at%20the%20point%20nowwhere%20our%20planes%20are%20worth%20just%20what%20we%20paid,%20and%20nothing%20forthe%20labor...since%20they\'re%20only%20worth%20what%20someone%20can/will%20pay.Combine%20that%20with%20the%20fact%20that%20with%20300%20flying,%20RV-10\'s%20arenow%20common%20enough%20that%20if%20you%20want%20one,%20there%20are%20some%20youcan%20buy....it\'s%20not%20like%2010%20people%20are%20shopping%20and%20there\'s%20only1%20plane%20to%20purchase.%20Add%20in%20that%20many%20builders%20built%20theirsto%20sell,%20so%20it%20brought%20prices%20down%20by%20increasing%20supply.Now,%20if%20they%20end%20up%20having%20the%20100LL%20issue,%20then%20what%20MAYend%20up%20being%20more%20valuable%20are%20carbureted%20O-540%20RV-10\'swith%208:1%20pistons,%20since%20lower%20compression%20might%20keepthose%20planes%20flying%20on%20Premium%20Auto%20fuel.But,%20I%20know%20I%20said%20it%20long%20ago%20and%20others%20have%20too...you\'rebuilding%20this%20plane%20for%20YOU,%20and%20if%20you%20fly%20it%20and%20keepit%20and%20maintain%20it,%20it%20should%20treat%20you%20nice%20and%20help%20keepyour%20costs%20lower%20than%20if%20you%20bought%20something%20%22off%20the%20shelf%22.Tim%20Olson%20-%20RV-10%20N104CDdo%20not%20archiveOn%207/21/2010%2010:38%20AM,%20John%20Gonzalez%20wrote:[/email])> *What's up!*> > JOhn Gonzalez 409, engine sensor connections> > *> > > * > *What's up!* 	
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jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Resale on RV 10

Sorry everyone. I had to have my own Lindsay Lohan moment. Just gotta do the time and enjoy the accomplishment when it's done. 



Jae

40533

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Hmm,

RE: the fuel issue.....I don't see any carbureted models with lower than 

8.5:1 except a few 235hp models with 7.2 compression. Perhaps that is 

what you were referring to.

I suppose some may consider it a fuel issue, but the 4 cyl models with 

8.5 compression such as the 180hp fly just fine on premium mogas, IF the 

airframe has no issues and the fuel is mostly ethanol free, so don't see 

any reason why 2 more cyl at same compression should change that.

On 7/21/2010 9:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Now, if they end up having the 100LL issue, then what MAY

 end up being more valuable are carbureted O-540 RV-10's

 with 8:1 pistons, since lower compression might keep

 those planes flying on Premium Auto fuel.



 But, I know I said it long ago and others have too...you're

 building this plane for YOU, and if you fly it and keep

 it and maintain it, it should treat you nice and help keep

 your costs lower than if you bought something "off the shelf".



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: Resale on RV 10

Right on Kelly.  I run the crap out of my O-360 in my Pitts ..... on 

premium mogas.  Regular works OK as long as I don't get real wild.  Had 

to go back to 100 Lotsa Lead because of the ethanol.  Not sure if the 

PS-5 carb will tolerate the ethanol which is the only weak spot (ethanol 

wise) in the fuel system.  All the old Aeroquip rubber hoses have been 

changed to the braided teflon so no issues there.

Linn

Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Hmm,

 RE: the fuel issue.....I don't see any carbureted models with lower 

 than 8.5:1 except a few 235hp models with 7.2 compression. Perhaps 

 that is what you were referring to.

 I suppose some may consider it a fuel issue, but the 4 cyl models with 

 8.5 compression such as the 180hp fly just fine on premium mogas, IF 

 the airframe has no issues and the fuel is mostly ethanol free, so 

 don't see any reason why 2 more cyl at same compression should change 

 that.

 On 7/21/2010 9:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

>

> Now, if they end up having the 100LL issue, then what MAY

> end up being more valuable are carbureted O-540 RV-10's

> with 8:1 pistons, since lower compression might keep

> those planes flying on Premium Auto fuel.

>

> But, I know I said it long ago and others have too...you're

> building this plane for YOU, and if you fly it and keep

> it and maintain it, it should treat you nice and help keep

> your costs lower than if you bought something "off the shelf".

>

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

> do not archive

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