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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
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 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: buried antennas |
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Here's a good one.
A fellow Grumman owner, Horatio (the name is changed to protect the innocent), has always complained that his radios (comms) are really bad. He can hear sometimes, but not always. He can be heard almost never. Last year he went to Canada and was in fear of being shot down for crossing the border without talking to anyone. Oh, he tried, but couldn't reach anyone. He told me that, for the most part, the range on his radios was about 10 miles. He does have 4 GPSs in his plane though.
Dave had his antennas buried years ago. But, never really knew where. Last year, he found them: one was in the wing tip, the other in . . . . hold that thought. The one in the right wing tip looked kind of like a flat 12"x12" aluminum Christmas tree ornament. Last year, he came to me and asked me to install install another one of these ornaments in the left wing tip. I laughed, of course. There was no way I was going to waste my time installing another antenna that doesn't work. I told him I'd install two antennas in the dorsal fin if he wanted buried antennas (he was reluctant because he'd have to get it painted.) He hemmed and hawed for months, finally agreeing to the new antennas.
I prepped the dorsal fin channel and waited. He showed up yesterday. We went to work. What I found was amazing: lots of cutoff coax going into the spar and then going nowhere and an antenna in the right wing root. Yup. The second antenna was attached to the honeycomb bulkhead in the wing root. Put it this way, when you first step onto the wing walk, your first step is where the antenna was. I found the LORAN antenna in the other wing root. They had to have been installed with the wing off. I could not get to the screws. I had to cut the nuts off with a Dremel and then cut the antennas in half to get them out. The coax was sealed with some sort of epoxy where it goes into the cabin.
I wonder what he'll do when he's able to hear ATIS or AWOS 80 miles away. He may fly out of the local area again.
Gary
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Discover
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: buried antennas |
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With the dorsal fin hidden antenna I find there is a blond spot. It's pretty bad sometimes. I had to relay ATC to Stu, who has the hidden ant, and have to use the belly ant during all xcountries while using flight following. The dorsal ant works great for forward towers but loses aft towers quickly
Just a heads up......
On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:48 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:
[quote]Here's a good one.
A fellow Grumman owner, Horatio (the name is changed to protect the innocent), has always complained that his radios (comms) are really bad. He can hear sometimes, but not always. He can be heard almost never. Last year he went to Canada and was in fear of being shot down for crossing the border without talking to anyone. Oh, he tried, but couldn't reach anyone. He told me that, for the most part, the range on his radios was about 10 miles. He does have 4 GPSs in his plane though.
Dave had his antennas buried years ago. But, never really knew where. Last year, he found them: one was in the wing tip, the other in . . . . hold that thought. The one in the right wing tip looked kind of like a flat 12"x12" aluminum Christmas tree ornament. Last year, he came to me and asked me to install install another one of these ornaments in the left wing tip. I laughed, of course. There was no way I was going to waste my time installing another antenna that doesn't work. I told him I'd install two antennas in the dorsal fin if he wanted buried antennas (he was reluctant because he'd have to get it painted.) He hemmed and hawed for months, finally agreeing to the new antennas.
I prepped the dorsal fin channel and waited. He showed up yesterday. We went to work. What I found was amazing: lots of cutoff coax going into the spar and then going nowhere and an antenna in the right wing root. Yup. The second antenna was attached to the honeycomb bulkhead in the wing root. Put it this way, when you first step onto the wing walk, your first step is where the antenna was. I found the LORAN antenna in the other wing root. They had to have been installed with the wing off. I could not get to the screws. I had to cut the nuts off with a Dremel and then cut the antennas in half to get them out. The coax was sealed with some sort of epoxy where it goes into the cabin.
I wonder what he'll do when he's able to hear ATIS or AWOS 80 miles away. He may fly out of the local area again.
Gary
<IMG_0664.JPG>
[b]
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: buried antennas |
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Blond spot = blind spot
Or is it the other way around...
thru the associative property?
On Jul 27, 2010, at 4:07 PM, 923te <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]With the dorsal fin hidden antenna I find there is a blond spot. It's pretty bad sometimes. I had to relay ATC to Stu, who has the hidden ant, and have to use the belly ant during all xcountries while using flight following. The dorsal ant works great for forward towers but loses aft towers quickly
Just a heads up......
On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:48 PM, Gary Vogt <[url=mailto:teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM]teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | Here's a good one.
A fellow Grumman owner, Horatio (the name is changed to protect the innocent), has always complained that his radios (comms) are really bad. He can hear sometimes, but not always. He can be heard almost never. Last year he went to Canada and was in fear of being shot down for crossing the border without talking to anyone. Oh, he tried, but couldn't reach anyone. He told me that, for the most part, the range on his radios was about 10 miles. He does have 4 GPSs in his plane though.
Dave had his antennas buried years ago. But, never really knew where. Last year, he found them: one was in the wing tip, the other in . . . . hold that thought. The one in the right wing tip looked kind of like a flat 12"x12" aluminum Christmas tree ornament. Last year, he came to me and asked me to install install another one of these ornaments in the left wing tip. I laughed, of course. There was no way I was going to waste my time installing another antenna that doesn't work. I told him I'd install two antennas in the dorsal fin if he wanted buried antennas (he was reluctant because he'd have to get it painted.) He hemmed and hawed for months, finally agreeing to the new antennas.
I prepped the dorsal fin channel and waited. He showed up yesterday. We went to work. What I found was amazing: lots of cutoff coax going into the spar and then going nowhere and an antenna in the right wing root. Yup. The second antenna was attached to the honeycomb bulkhead in the wing root. Put it this way, when you first step onto the wing walk, your first step is where the antenna was. I found the LORAN antenna in the other wing root. They had to have been installed with the wing off. I could not get to the screws. I had to cut the nuts off with a Dremel and then cut the antennas in half to get them out. The coax was sealed with some sort of epoxy where it goes into the cabin.
I wonder what he'll do when he's able to hear ATIS or AWOS 80 miles away. He may fly out of the local area again.
Gary
<IMG_0664.JPG>
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
|
[b]
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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: buried antennas |
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With both antennas in the dorsal, the most forward antenna is acceptable aft. I've found I can hear those behind me, but they can't hear me. I just roll out and transmit, then roll back.
From: 923te <923te(at)att.net>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 2:29:21 PM
Subject: Re: buried antennas
Blond spot = blind spot
Or is it the other way around...
thru the associative property?
On Jul 27, 2010, at 4:07 PM, 923te <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | With the dorsal fin hidden antenna I find there is a blond spot. It's pretty bad sometimes. I had to relay ATC to Stu, who has the hidden ant, and have to use the belly ant during all xcountries while using flight following. The dorsal ant works great for forward towers but loses aft towers quickly
Just a heads up......
On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:48 PM, Gary Vogt < (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here's a good one.
A fellow Grumman owner, Horatio (the name is changed to protect the innocent), has always complained that his radios (comms) are really bad. He can hear sometimes, but not always. He can be heard almost never. Last year he went to Canada and was in fear of being shot down for crossing the border without talking to anyone. Oh, he tried, but couldn't reach anyone. He told me that, for the most part, the range on his radios was about 10 miles. He does have 4 GPSs in his plane though.
Dave had his antennas buried years ago. But, never really knew where. Last year, he found them: one was in the wing tip, the other in . . . . hold that thought. The one in the right wing tip looked kind of like a flat 12"x12" aluminum Christmas tree ornament. Last year, he came to me and asked me to install install another one of these ornaments in the left wing tip. I laughed, of course. There was no way I was going to waste my time installing another antenna that doesn't work. I told him I'd install two antennas in the dorsal fin if he wanted buried antennas (he was reluctant because he'd have to get it painted.) He hemmed and hawed for months, finally agreeing to the new antennas.
I prepped the dorsal fin channel and waited. He showed up yesterday. We went to work. What I found was amazing: lots of cutoff coax going into the spar and then going nowhere and an antenna in the right wing root. Yup. The second antenna was attached to the honeycomb bulkhead in the wing root. Put it this way, when you first step onto the wing walk, your first step is where the antenna was. I found the LORAN antenna in the other wing root. They had to have been installed with the wing off. I could not get to the screws. I had to cut the nuts off with a Dremel and then cut the antennas in half to get them out. The coax was sealed with some sort of epoxy where it goes into the cabin.
I wonder what he'll do when he's able to hear ATIS or AWOS 80 miles away. He may fly out of the local area again.
Gary
<IMG_0664.JPG>
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution===================================
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[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:22 am Post subject: buried antennas |
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now you see 'm, now you don't
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 8:29:33 PM
Subject: Re: buried antennas
With both antennas in the dorsal, the most forward antenna is acceptable aft. I've found I can hear those behind me, but they can't hear me. I just roll out and transmit, then roll back.
From: 923te <923te(at)att.net>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 2:29:21 PM
Subject: Re: buried antennas
Blond spot = blind spot
Or is it the other way around...
thru the associative property?
On Jul 27, 2010, at 4:07 PM, 923te <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | With the dorsal fin hidden antenna I find there is a blond spot. It's pretty bad sometimes. I had to relay ATC to Stu, who has the hidden ant, and have to use the belly ant during all xcountries while using flight following. The dorsal ant works great for forward towers but loses aft towers quickly
Just a heads up......
On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:48 PM, Gary Vogt < (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here's a good one.
A fellow Grumman owner, Horatio (the name is changed to protect the innocent), has always complained that his radios (comms) are really bad. He can hear sometimes, but not always. He can be heard almost never. Last year he went to Canada and was in fear of being shot down for crossing the border without talking to anyone. Oh, he tried, but couldn't reach anyone. He told me that, for the most part, the range on his radios was about 10 miles. He does have 4 GPSs in his plane though.
Dave had his antennas buried years ago. But, never really knew where. Last year, he found them: one was in the wing tip, the other in . . . . hold that thought. The one in the right wing tip looked kind of like a flat 12"x12" aluminum Christmas tree ornament. Last year, he came to me and asked me to install install another one of these ornaments in the left wing tip. I laughed, of course. There was no way I was going to waste my time installing another antenna that doesn't work. I told him I'd install two antennas in the dorsal fin if he wanted buried antennas (he was reluctant because he'd have to get it painted.) He hemmed and hawed for months, finally agreeing to the new antennas.
I prepped the dorsal fin channel and waited. He showed up yesterday. We went to work. What I found was amazing: lots of cutoff coax going into the spar and then going nowhere and an antenna in the right wing root. Yup. The second antenna was attached to the honeycomb bulkhead in the wing root. Put it this way, when you first step onto the wing walk, your first step is where the antenna was. I found the LORAN antenna in the other wing root. They had to have been installed with the wing off. I could not get to the screws. I had to cut the nuts off with a Dremel and then cut the antennas in half to get them out. The coax was sealed with some sort of epoxy where it goes into the cabin.
I wonder what he'll do when he's able to hear ATIS or AWOS 80 miles away. He may fly out of the local area again.
Gary
<IMG_0664.JPG>
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution===================================
|
|
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: buried antennas |
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You mean
Now you hear 'em now you don't
On Jul 28, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:
[quote]now you see 'm, now you don't
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)>
To: [url=mailto:teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com]teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 8:29:33 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: buried antennas
With both antennas in the dorsal, the most forward antenna is acceptable aft. I've found I can hear those behind me, but they can't hear me. I just roll out and transmit, then roll back.
From: 923te <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 2:29:21 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: buried antennas
Blond spot = blind spot
Or is it the other way around...
thru the associative property?
On Jul 27, 2010, at 4:07 PM, 923te <[url=mailto:923te(at)att.net]923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | With the dorsal fin hidden antenna I find there is a blond spot. It's pretty bad sometimes. I had to relay ATC to Stu, who has the hidden ant, and have to use the belly ant during all xcountries while using flight following. The dorsal ant works great for forward towers but loses aft towers quickly
Just a heads up......
On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:48 PM, Gary Vogt < (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)[url=mailto:teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM]teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | Here's a good one.
A fellow Grumman owner, Horatio (the name is changed to protect the innocent), has always complained that his radios (comms) are really bad. He can hear sometimes, but not always. He can be heard almost never. Last year he went to Canada and was in fear of being shot down for crossing the border without talking to anyone. Oh, he tried, but couldn't reach anyone. He told me that, for the most part, the range on his radios was about 10 miles. He does have 4 GPSs in his plane though.
Dave had his antennas buried years ago. But, never really knew where. Last year, he found them: one was in the wing tip, the other in . . . . hold that thought. The one in the right wing tip looked kind of like a flat 12"x12" aluminum Christmas tree ornament. Last year, he came to me and asked me to install install another one of these ornaments in the left wing tip. I laughed, of course. There was no way I was going to waste my time installing another antenna that doesn't work. I told him I'd install two antennas in the dorsal fin if he wanted buried antennas (he was reluctant because he'd have to get it painted.) He hemmed and hawed for months, finally agreeing to the new antennas.
I prepped the dorsal fin channel and waited. He showed up yesterday. We went to work. What I found was amazing: lots of cutoff coax going into the spar and then going nowhere and an antenna in the right wing root. Yup. The second antenna was attached to the honeycomb bulkhead in the wing root. Put it this way, when you first step onto the wing walk, your first step is where the antenna was. I found the LORAN antenna in the other wing root. They had to have been installed with the wing off. I could not get to the screws. I had to cut the nuts off with a Dremel and then cut the antennas in half to get them out. The coax was sealed with some sort of epoxy where it goes into the cabin.
I wonder what he'll do when he's able to hear ATIS or AWOS 80 miles away. He may fly out of the local area again.
Gary
<IMG_0664.JPG>
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution===================================
|
|
<IMG_0669.JPG>
<IMG_0671.JPG>
[b]
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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: buried antennas |
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I've received several emails off line about the buried antennas.
Summary: I first buried antennas in a Cheetah in 1990. On two occasions (in that plane) I could not talk to someone behind me. The first was a tower from an airport I was leaving (I think it was El Monte in SoCal). I responded but he called again. I rolled the plane to the left about 10 degrees, transmitted, then back straight. He heard me fine.
The second time was at Pine Mountain Lake. It's a fly-in community near Yosemite National Park. The person I was talking to was taxiing behind me around the park. As we rounded a bend, I transmitted and he heard me fine.
I buried the antennas in my second Cheetah also. Never had a problem.
I buried one antenna in about 10 other planes without problems being reported back to me.
I buried the antennas in my Tiger in 2004 about a month after I bought it. I've never had an incident where I couldn't talk to a tower or receive ATIS or anything else. In flight, in my Tiger, I've talked to planes over 300 miles away. Generally, I can pick up an ATIS 80 miles away over flat ground. I installed the buried antennas in the subject plane in the same fashion I did mine.
Now we wait and see.
From: 923te <923te(at)att.net>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 10:56:28 AM
Subject: Re: buried antennas
You mean
Now you hear 'em now you don't
On Jul 28, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:
| Quote: | now you see 'm, now you don't
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)>
To: (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 8:29:33 PM
Subject: Re: buried antennas
With both antennas in the dorsal, the most forward antenna is acceptable aft. I've found I can hear those behind me, but they can't hear me. I just roll out and transmit, then roll back.
From: 923te <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 2:29:21 PM
Subject: Re: buried antennas
Blond spot = blind spot
Or is it the other way around...
thru the associative property?
On Jul 27, 2010, at 4:07 PM, 923te < (923te(at)att.net)923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | With the dorsal fin hidden antenna I find there is a blond spot. It's pretty bad sometimes. I had to relay ATC to Stu, who has the hidden ant, and have to use the belly ant during all xcountries while using flight following. The dorsal ant works great for forward towers but loses aft towers quickly
Just a heads up......
On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:48 PM, Gary Vogt < (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM) (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM (teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here's a good one.
A fellow Grumman owner, Horatio (the name is changed to protect the innocent), has always complained that his radios (comms) are really bad. He can hear sometimes, but not always. He can be heard almost never. Last year he went to Canada and was in fear of being shot down for crossing the border without talking to anyone. Oh, he tried, but couldn't reach anyone. He told me that, for the most part, the range on his radios was about 10 miles. He does have 4 GPSs in his plane though.
Dave had his antennas buried years ago. But, never really knew where. Last year, he found them: one was in the wing tip, the other in . . . . hold that thought. The one in the right wing tip looked kind of like a flat 12"x12" aluminum Christmas tree ornament. Last year, he came to me and asked me to install install another one of these ornaments in the left wing tip. I laughed, of course. There was no way I was going to waste my time installing another antenna that doesn't work. I told him I'd install two antennas in the dorsal fin if he wanted buried antennas (he was reluctant because he'd have to get it painted.) He hemmed and hawed for months, finally agreeing to the new antennas.
I prepped the dorsal fin channel and waited. He showed up yesterday. We went to work. What I found was amazing: lots of cutoff coax going into the spar and then going nowhere and an antenna in the right wing root. Yup. The second antenna was attached to the honeycomb bulkhead in the wing root. Put it this way, when you first step onto the wing walk, your first step is where the antenna was. I found the LORAN antenna in the other wing root. They had to have been installed with the wing off. I could not get to the screws. I had to cut the nuts off with a Dremel and then cut the antennas in half to get them out. The coax was sealed with some sort of epoxy where it goes into the cabin.
I wonder what he'll do when he's able to hear ATIS or AWOS 80 miles away. He may fly out of the local area again.
Gary
<IMG_0664.JPG>
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
[/url][url=http://ums.matronics.com]ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution===================================
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<IMG_0671.JPG>
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[quote][b]
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