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DaveG601XL
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
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 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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I flew my Zenith 601XL/Jabiru 3300 airplane to Oshkosh 2010 and spent most of the week there. On my flight back to the Cincinnati area, I got bit by an oil level gremlin.
With the Jabiru 3300 engine I have seen it mentioned in various forums that the engine likes to only be serviced to the lower half of the hash-marked area of the dipstick. I do not recall any specific precautions around this statement, but I saw no reason for not heeding the advice. I think there is more than one dip stick configuration, but my engine is a 2007 model with the latest type of dip stick.
Since my engine has consumed very little oil over the past two years, I do not have to put a lot of oil in and kept it no higher than half full on the hash mark. Checking the oil level prior to my Oshkosh departure, the level was just into the lower end of the hash mark. For a short local flight, I would have just left it there and flown. Since I was going to be flying 4+ hours back to home, I decided to add some oil. After pouring some oil in, I noticed that I had about a quarter of a quart of oil left in the container so I just poured the rest in. Why I did that, I do not know, but it seemed safe to do. It’s only a quarter of a quart, right? Afterward, the level was still just inside the upper hash mark and within owners manual limits, right?
Well, after taking off and climbing out from Oshkosh, I noticed that my oil parameters were not what I used to. Any day of the week, I usually see 50 PSI and temperatures between 200-215 degrees F. When I initially leveled off at 1300 feet as directed in the Oshkosh NOTAM, I was seeing 35 PSI and temperatures of 215F and climbing. A few minutes later I was still at 35 PSI (and wavering) with the temperature climbing through 230F. In front of me was increasing areas of ground fog. The nearest airport to the south was reporting 2 miles of visibility and 200 feet ceilings. I certainly was not going to do VFR over the top with any doubt in my aircraft. I had just passed Fond Du Lac (FLD), which is one of the Oshkosh reliever airports during Airventure and it was still in VFR conditions. I radioed that I was coming in for a precautionary landing and they held everybody up for me (thanks guys!).
On the ground I pulled the cowling and could find nothing wrong other than a dip stick that was reading now a little over the full mark due to hot oil expansion. After much pondering, the only thing I could think of was to de-service the oil to a level more in tune with past practice. I pulled about a 1/3rd of a quart out and got in line for takeoff.
This time off, I was at a rock solid 50 PSI and around 205F almost all the way home. Go figure.
Your situation may certainly vary but I would say that the precaution of not filling the Jabiru 3300 engine to the full oil mark holds true for me.
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area
Last edited by DaveG601XL on Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rickey B.
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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Thanks for the insight, Dave!
Rick
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I flew my Zenith 601XL/Jabiru 3300 airplane to Oshkosh 2010 and spent most of the week there. On my flight back to the Cincinnati area, I got bit by an oil level gremlin.
With the Jabiru 3300 engine I have seen it mentioned in various forums that the engine likes to only be serviced to the lower half of the hash-marked area of the dipstick. I do not recall any precautions around this statement, but I saw no reason for not heeding the advice. I think there is more than one dip stick configuration, but my engine is a 2007 model with the latest type of dip stick.
Since my engine has consumed very little oil over the past two years, I do not have to put a lot of oil in and kept it no higher than half full on the hash mark. Checking the oil level prior to my Oshkosh departure, the level was just into the lower end of the hash mark. For a short local flight, I would have just left it there and flown. Since I was going to be flying 4+ hours back to home, I decided to add some oil. After pouring some oil in, I noticed that I had about a quarter of a quart of oil left in the container so I just poured the rest in. Why I did that, I do not know, but it seemed safe to do. It’s only a quarter of a quart, right? Afterward, the level was still just inside the upper hash mark, right?
Well, after taking off and climbing out from Oshkosh, I noticed that my oil parameters were not what I used to. Any day of the week, I usually see 50 PSI and temperatures between 200-215 degrees F. When I initially leveled off at 1300 feet as directed in the Oshkosh NOTAM, I was seeing 35 PSI and temperatures of 215F and climbing. A few minutes later I was still at 35 PSI (and wavering) with the temperature climbing through 230F. In front of me was increasing areas of ground fog. The nearest airport to the south was reporting 2 miles of visibility and 200 feet ceilings. I certainly was not going to do VFR over the top with any doubt in my aircraft. I had just passed Fond Du Lac (FLD), which is one of the Oshkosh reliever airports during Airventure and it was still in VFR conditions. I radioed in that I was coming in for a precautionary landing and they held everybody up for me (thanks guys!).
On the ground I pulled the cowling and could find nothing wrong other than a dip stick that was reading now a little over the full mark due to hot oil expansion. After much pondering, the only thing I could think of was to de-service the oil to a level more in tune with past practice. I pulled about a 1/3rd of a quart out and got in line for takeoff.
This time off, I was at a rock solid 50 PSI and around 205F almost all the way home. Go figure.
Your situation may certainly vary but I would say that the precaution of not filling the Jabiru 3300 engine to the full oil mark holds true for me.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
140+ hours and climbing!
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tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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David,
What you described is typical for my Jab/XL. I usually fly locally at about 1/3 mark and a little over 1/2 mark for long flights.
Tony Graziano
N493TG; 601XL; Jab 3300 with 589 smooth running minimal maintenance hours. First flight 6 July 05.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 3, 2010, at 8:35 AM, "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I flew my Zenith 601XL/Jabiru 3300 airplane to Oshkosh 2010 and spent most of the week there. On my flight back to the Cincinnati area, I got bit by an oil level gremlin.
With the Jabiru 3300 engine I have seen it mentioned in various forums that the engine likes to only be serviced to the lower half of the hash-marked area of the dipstick. I do not recall any precautions around this statement, but I saw no reason for not heeding the advice. I think there is more than one dip stick configuration, but my engine is a 2007 model with the latest type of dip stick.
Since my engine has consumed very little oil over the past two years, I do not have to put a lot of oil in and kept it no higher than half full on the hash mark. Checking the oil level prior to my Oshkosh departure, the level was just into the lower end of the hash mark. For a short local flight, I would have just left it there and flown. Since I was going to be flying 4+ hours back to home, I decided to add some oil. After pouring some oil in, I noticed that I had about a quarter of a quart of oil left in the container so I just poured the rest in. Why I did that, I do not know, but it seemed safe to do. It’s only a quarter of a quart, right? Afterward, the level was still just inside the upper hash mark, right?
Well, after taking off and climbing out from Oshkosh, I noticed that my oil parameters were not what I used to. Any day of the week, I usually see 50 PSI and temperatures between 200-215 degrees F. When I initially leveled off at 1300 feet as directed in the Oshkosh NOTAM, I was seeing 35 PSI and temperatures of 215F and climbing. A few minutes later I was still at 35 PSI (and wavering) with the temperature climbing through 230F. In front of me was increasing areas of ground fog. The nearest airport to the south was reporting 2 miles of visibility and 200 feet ceilings. I certainly was not going to do VFR over the top with any doubt in my aircraft. I had just passed Fond Du Lac (FLD), which is one of the Oshkosh reliever airports during Airventure and it was still in VFR conditions. I radioed in that I was coming in for a precautionary landing and they held everybody up for me (thanks guys!).
On the ground I pulled the cowling and could find nothing wrong other than a dip stick that was reading now a little over the full mark due to hot oil expansion. After much pondering, the only thing I could think of was to de-service the oil to a level more in tune with past practice. I pulled about a 1/3rd of a quart out and got in line for takeoff.
This time off, I was at a rock solid 50 PSI and around 205F almost all the way home. Go figure.
Your situation may certainly vary but I would say that the precaution of not filling the Jabiru 3300 engine to the full oil mark holds true for me.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
140+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307301#307301
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mhubel
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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Perhaps it would be a good place to get a word from Peter at Jabiru on
the unusually narrow range Jabiru engines will accept for oil levels. To
me this borders on a safety issue as it is not possible to have any
reasonable amount of extra oil in the sump.
Could not the sump have been made slightly larger to provide space for
the normal 2+ quart range we see in other aircraft engines between
minimum and maximum oil levels?
I know that Jabiru engines have a very low normal oil consumption rate
but the significant word there is "normal". A slight increase in
consumption during a long flight could spoil your day.
On 8/3/2010 9:46 AM, Beckman, Rick wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks for the insight, Dave!
Rick
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I flew my Zenith 601XL/Jabiru 3300 airplane to Oshkosh 2010 and spent most of the week there. On my flight back to the Cincinnati area, I got bit by an oil level gremlin.
With the Jabiru 3300 engine I have seen it mentioned in various forums that the engine likes to only be serviced to the lower half of the hash-marked area of the dipstick. I do not recall any precautions around this statement, but I saw no reason for not heeding the advice. I think there is more than one dip stick configuration, but my engine is a 2007 model with the latest type of dip stick.
Since my engine has consumed very little oil over the past two years, I do not have to put a lot of oil in and kept it no higher than half full on the hash mark. Checking the oil level prior to my Oshkosh departure, the level was just into the lower end of the hash mark. For a short local flight, I would have just left it there and flown. Since I was going to be flying 4+ hours back to home, I decided to add some oil. After pouring some oil in, I noticed that I had about a quarter of a quart of oil left in the container so I just poured the rest in. Why I did that, I do not know, but it seemed safe to do. It’s only a quarter of a quart, right? Afterward, the level was still just inside the upper hash mark, right?
Well, after taking off and climbing out from Oshkosh, I noticed that my oil parameters were not what I used to. Any day of the week, I usually see 50 PSI and temperatures between 200-215 degrees F. When I initially leveled off at 1300 feet as directed in the Oshkosh NOTAM, I was seeing 35 PSI and temperatures of 215F and climbing. A few minutes later I was still at 35 PSI (and wavering) with the temperature climbing through 230F. In front of me was increasing areas of ground fog. The nearest airport to the south was reporting 2 miles of visibility and 200 feet ceilings. I certainly was not going to do VFR over the top with any doubt in my aircraft. I had just passed Fond Du Lac (FLD), which is one of the Oshkosh reliever airports during Airventure and it was still in VFR conditions. I radioed in that I was coming in for a precautionary landing and they held everybody up for me (thanks guys!).
On the ground I pulled the cowling and could find nothing wrong other than a dip stick that was reading now a little over the full mark due to hot oil expansion. After much pondering, the only thing I could think of was to de-service the oil to a level more in tune with past practice. I pulled about a 1/3rd of a quart out and got in line for takeoff.
This time off, I was at a rock solid 50 PSI and around 205F almost all the way home. Go figure.
Your situation may certainly vary but I would say that the precaution of not filling the Jabiru 3300 engine to the full oil mark holds true for me.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
140+ hours and climbing!
|
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_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com |
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imap8ntr(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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Just my two cents lol
My jab 3300 J0250 uses 1 oz/hr of 100W or 1.5oz.hr of 15-50W. It certainly
doesnt seem to make a difference in oil temp or pressure if my dipstick (old
style) says between the bottom mark and a bit over half. That difference is
12 oz which would certainly give me between 8-12 hrs flying time. So in
reality I cant see flying for more than 4 hours which would use only 4-6oz
of oil or 1/4 of the dip stick. Thus it never has been an issue in the past
267 hrs on the aircraft. BTW my oil catch bottle hardly has any oil in it,
maybe 3-4oz annually so the oil is not being spilled over.
Just FYI
Ivan
Phoenix, AZ
---
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:23 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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I just can't see why this is. I flew 9.9 hours from my place to
Mitchell, SD, and didn't add any oil during that time. At Mitchell, I
added about 8 ounces of oil. I then flew non-stop for 4 hours to
oshkosh...actually Fond Du Lac (sp?), and added another 4 oz before
coming home. I'm still above the normal mark.
I started this trip with the oil above the normal mark, and I can't
see where there is any problem with this, either in oil consumption
or low power. I was, however, flying lean of peak which requires only
65-75% power, and I have an extra vent line attached to my fuel pump
block-off plate, and going into the catch can/puke jar. At Oshkosh, I
looked at the can and it showed 5 ounces of oil collected for those 14
+ hours of operation.
I just don't get it.....
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1030 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
| Quote: |
<mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Perhaps it would be a good place to get a word from Peter at
Jabiru on the unusually narrow range Jabiru engines will accept for
oil levels. To me this borders on a safety issue as it is not
possible to have any reasonable amount of extra oil in the sump.
Could not the sump have been made slightly larger to provide space
for the normal 2+ quart range we see in other aircraft engines
between minimum and maximum oil levels?
I know that Jabiru engines have a very low normal oil consumption
rate but the significant word there is "normal". A slight increase
in consumption during a long flight could spoil your day.
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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Guys;
It might be a good idea to visit the Jabiru web site to see if
they have any comment on oil levels/consumption etc there are several dipstick
lengths so that may be part of the problem you are seeing. They may have
better insight than Pete since they designed the engine.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 8/3/2010 10:23:16 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
mhubel(at)nemon.com writes:
Perhaps it would be a good place to get a word from Peter at Jabiru on
the unusually narrow range Jabiru engines will accept for oil levels. To
me this borders on a safety issue as it is not possible to have any
reasonable amount of extra oil in the sump.
Could not the sump have been made slightly larger to provide space for
the normal 2+ quart range we see in other aircraft engines between
minimum and maximum oil levels?
I know that Jabiru engines have a very low normal oil consumption rate
but the significant word there is "normal". A slight increase in
consumption during a long flight could spoil your day.
On 8/3/2010 9:46 AM, Beckman, Rick wrote:
| Quote: |
Rick"<Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com>
|
| Quote: |
Thanks for the insight, Dave!
Rick
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I flew my Zenith 601XL/Jabiru 3300 airplane to Oshkosh 2010 and spent
most of the week there. On my flight back to the Cincinnati area, I got bit
|
by an oil level gremlin.
| Quote: |
With the Jabiru 3300 engine I have seen it mentioned in various forums
that the engine likes to only be serviced to the lower half of the
|
hash-marked area of the dipstick. I do not recall any precautions around this
statement, but I saw no reason for not heeding the advice. I think there is
more than one dip stick configuration, but my engine is a 2007 model with the
latest type of dip stick.
| Quote: |
Since my engine has consumed very little oil over the past two years, I
do not have to put a lot of oil in and kept it no higher than half full on
|
the hash mark. Checking the oil level prior to my Oshkosh departure, the
level was just into the lower end of the hash mark. For a short local
flight, I would have just left it there and flown. Since I was going to be
flying 4+ hours back to home, I decided to add some oil. After pouring some oil
in, I noticed that I had about a quarter of a quart of oil left in the
container so I just poured the rest in. Why I did that, I do not know, but it
seemed safe to do. It’s only a quarter of a quart, right? Afterward,
the level was still just inside the upper hash mark, right?
| Quote: |
Well, after taking off and climbing out from Oshkosh, I noticed that my
oil parameters were not what I used to. Any day of the week, I usually see
|
50 PSI and temperatures between 200-215 degrees F. When I initially leveled
off at 1300 feet as directed in the Oshkosh NOTAM, I was seeing 35 PSI and
temperatures of 215F and climbing. A few minutes later I was still at 35
PSI (and wavering) with the temperature climbing through 230F. In front of
me was increasing areas of ground fog. The nearest airport to the south was
reporting 2 miles of visibility and 200 feet ceilings. I certainly was not
going to do VFR over the top with any doubt in my aircraft. I had just
passed Fond Du Lac (FLD), which is one of the Oshkosh reliever airports during
Airventure and it was still in VFR conditions. I radioed in that I was
coming in for a precautionary landing and they held everybody up for me (thanks
guys!).
| Quote: |
On the ground I pulled the cowling and could find nothing wrong other
than a dip stick that was reading now a little over the full mark due to hot
|
oil expansion. After much pondering, the only thing I could think of was to
de-service the oil to a level more in tune with past practice. I pulled
about a 1/3rd of a quart out and got in line for takeoff.
| Quote: |
This time off, I was at a rock solid 50 PSI and around 205F almost all
the way home. Go figure.
|
| Quote: |
Your situation may certainly vary but I would say that the precaution of
not filling the Jabiru 3300 engine to the full oil mark holds true for me |
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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don.honabach(at)pcperfect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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This is just my personal experience, but I flew to and from Oshkosh from Phoenix, AZ in my 601HDS with a 3300A last year. All told about 27 hour round trip (great trip by the way). Oil burn was effectively barely noticeable and I had no problem with starting the flight with oil at the mid-level.
Also, most of us are flying in planes with a 3 hour max range so checking the oil shouldn't be a major deal on long trips.
I've also noticed that oil temps are higher if you over-fill and I believe is standard for the engine. In my experience though it generally quickly spits out the stuff into the overflow bottle quick enough to get back into its "happy zone". However, while I've seen higher temps in the 5/10 degree mark, nothing like a 20 to 30 degree jump.
Don Honabach
601HDS (120 Hours)
--
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Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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In a message dated 8/3/2010 2:56:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com writes:
| Quote: |
I've also noticed that oil temps are higher if you over-fill and I believe is standard for the engine. In my experience though it generally quickly spits out the stuff into the overflow bottle quick enough to get back into its "happy zone". However, while I've seen higher temps in the 5/10 degree mark, nothing like a 20 to 30 degree jump.
|
I would agree that overfilling a Jab is a problem. We have seen similar issues inspired by "dump in the last of the bottle"
What people dont consider when they suggest a larger oil sump is that the Jab will operate with very little oil in the sump...like half a quart or less. I have put two full quarts in before on a 2200 with break-in problems....and it had oil pressure and good temps. It was being flown back from OshKosh by someone who didn't check the oil.
Now before everyone gets their panties in a bunch over the notion that Jabs will run two quarts low....I am simply saying that you already have two extra quarts in the sump when you fill it to the suggested mark. Of course it is wise to check the oil and keep it to the mark. Of course it is a good idea to track your oil consumption. But a larger oil sump is unnecessary because the oil consumption is so low (after break-in).
The real lesson here is to NOT OVERFILL.
Doug Koenigsberg
[quote][b]
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Jaba-who
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Cairns, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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From the mouth of Rod Stiff himself to my friend who described the exact same problem that started the thread.
The engine doesn't like too much oil because the heat dissipation in the oil cooling system has a fixed maximum rate and when you add too much oil the oil itself becomes a carrier of heat and delivers it back to the engine. Thus the engine makes its own and is delivered more resulting in the rise of overall temp.
We have two Jab 3300's here in my town and both of us have added too much oil once (New clean oil - can't see the level........just a little bit more ...oops!) and both had exactly the same result hence the call to Rod Stiff.
Rod recommended running them on levels toward the lower end of the hashed zone. Have done so since and temps are good all the time.
Jaba-who
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ronlee
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 Thoughts On Oil Level |
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In many engines overfilling with oil will cause it to foam. Foaming oil will not pump well and causes low oil pressure. Foaming oil does not absorb heat well. Foaming oil does not lubricate well. The bottom line is, do not overfill any engine with more oil then specified in the owners manual.
If your engine calls for three quarts of oil at oil change put only that much in and the see where it shows on the dipstick and never get over that point whenever adding oil. The incorrect oil level on the dipstick can be more pronounced on tail dragger's.
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Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona |
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