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Header wrap 3+ years later

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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

This is a short quip from another site, but some of you with other aircraft may find it interesting especially if you have wires or hoses close to an exhaust tube.



Hi All,





I was just giving an update to the older header wrap post and discussion from a few years back. It has been 3+ years now that I and others have installed the header wrap on the 4 exhaust down tubes. What have been the problems? NONE There have been no reported issue that I have heard about. It has not caused pipes to crack, fall off and hit a golfer on the 18th hole. Although that would be the only thing to get them out of paying the other person for the round he just lost.

It has done a good job protecting the wire insulation, hoses and other items in close proximity to the exhaust pipes radiant heat. It has also help contain any exhaust blow by down by the knuckles. It has helped protect the exhaust springs from the radiant heat. These pipes are stainless and not as susceptible to carbonization as a regular steel exhaust pipe.



So no issues I guess is a good thing to report.





Oh yes I almost forgot.

For those that think the wrap will cover up an exhaust break. I have seen at least a dozen of them on other aircraft, No CT's, and there is absolutely no question that a pipe breaks. It doesn't get a little pin hole. They tend to snap clean across because of the more brittle nature of stainless and you will hear it because sounds like someone just put headers on your exhaust system. The wrap by the way shreds into pieces. So if you had a break the wrap is the first thing to go and in no way hides a problem. There won't be any guess work as to where the break is. No you don't need to remove the wrap to do an exhaust pipe only inspection and if you do you will need to buy new wrap to replace it because if you pull it off you will destroy it. Exhaust breaks tend to be on more high time aircraft with 800 plus hours, but can happen with less.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:48 am Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

As you say roger, I had to remove a couple of my exhaust pipes to get an item on my engine the exhaust wrap had brittleized and fell away. Glad I had more. Stuff works great ! I bought the super deluxe titanium colored stuff Hoopdeedoo !

                                                   Dick Maddux

                                                   Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

Dick:

  

 Over the years there has been so much reported that the 'wrap' holds in moisture on those rainy non-flying days that it causes the joints and bolts to rust/corrode prematurely.  Have you found that to be the case?

   

 Barry

 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 7:48 AM, <Catz631(at)aol.com (Catz631(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]  As you say roger, I had to remove a couple of my exhaust pipes to get an item on my engine the exhaust wrap had brittleized and fell away. Glad I had more. Stuff works great ! I bought the super deluxe titanium colored stuff Hoopdeedoo !

                                                    Dick Maddux

                                                   Milton,Fl

 	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:22 am Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

Barry,

  When I removed the wrap there wasn't any corrosion under it. The stuff turns into a "relic" and won't hold water or moisture. You have to be careful with it or it will fall apart.

                                              Dick Maddux

                                              Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

Dick:

  

 I know this is a difficult question to answer...

 Did you notice any temperature drop in the engine compartment after installing the wrap?

 And... 

 What was your reason(s) for installing it?

  

 Barry

 



 

 On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <Catz631(at)aol.com (Catz631(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]  Barry,

  When I removed the wrap there wasn't any corrosion under it. The stuff turns into a "relic" and won't hold water or moisture. You have to be careful with it or it will fall apart.

                                               Dick Maddux

                                              Milton,Fl

 	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Header wrap 3+ years later

Hi Barry,



The wrap Mfg claims a 70% reduction in radiated and convective heat. I don't know if it is really that much, but if you land your plane would you put your hand on your exhaust pipes? Not without loosing some skin. I can land and put my hand on my pipes and keep my skin. With all the planes I have done the header wrap on I have not seen any downsides or any issues.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

ransman

Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Sweden

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

Interesting topic!



Sorry to interfere but do you have any pics from your installation?

I think the exhaust are really hot and too close to everything under the 

cowling



ransbuilder

sauli



---

_________________
"Cum propris suis alis volat"
He flies with his own wings

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:59 am Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

Barry,

  I installed the exhaust wrap cause Roger said to and I like the stuff Roger puts out. He is right on the "gnats ass" pretty much 100 percent of the time.

  I hope you got a chuckle out of that statement, but it is really true. (don't get the big head now Roger)

  Actually I saw it on a Rans S6 at my Rotax course a short time ago. It was the instructors plane and I asked him if it was a worth while endeavor. He said absolutely as it did lower the engine bay temps and protects the rubber components. Also,I have gone thru 2 Northstar fuel flow sending units which I had in my engine bay (close to the muffler) I believe their failure was due to heat.

  I also had all the hoses,fuel lines ,etc that were in close proximity to the exhaust pipes wrapped with protedtive material and just figured "why not wrap the exhaust pipes" so I did. The rubber engine mounts are close to the pipes also and the rubber surface had been scorched from the heat prior so the wrapping will help that area.

  I haven't noticed any difference in my EGT,CHT,etc. I have no way to measure the under cowl temp so don't what it would be.

  I am glad I did it if for no other reason that if I accidently touch the pipes while working on a hot engine,I don't burn myself (ask me how I know)

                            Dick

  [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Header wrap 3+ years later

Hi Ross,



What brand of wrap and where do you pick some up?

If you have an SLSA you will need to send in an LOA (Letter of Approval) to the aircraft Mfg. I did and it was no big deal. It actually became a fleet approval.



Thermo-Tech is very common. You can pick header wrap up at places like Checker auto, Auto Zone or Pep Boys. You need to get the 2" wide wrap and it is sold in a 50' length. For the standard Rotax exhaust tube that is about 15" long you need to cut a 68" piece. Dampen it. Don't soak it.  It takes very little water to moisten this stuff. You will need a hose clamp at the top and one for the bottom. Start at the top or exhaust port and wrap 2 spiral turns then put the first clamp on. Then spiral wrap all the way down. Only over wrap each edge by about 3/8"- 1/2" and no more. If you over wrap too much it hold in too much heat. When you get to the springs just go under them and wrap around the exhaust knuckle. This will help with any exhaust blow-by. Do not over wrap the springs. The springs need the cooler air. Once this is done apply the other clamp. That's it, just do the other three like that.

If you have an EGT probe, do not wrap around this. The material in the cloth warp interferes with the readings. It will make your EGT's swing 100F. Wrap up to about 1/4" before the probe and add a clamp then start 1/4" past the EGT probe, add a clamp and then on down. When your done let the engine run for 10 minutes or so. 



p.s.

When you start the engine for the first time it will smoke a little and smell like it's burning. That will go away after about 10 minutes and the wrap will burn and seat in place. It might give a faint burnt smell the first time out after you shut the engine down. That's normal and don't worry. Once this has been run a few times the wrap will be fragile so don't try and take it off and think you can reuse it. If you scrape it hard with a tool it could abrade.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:28 am Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

Roger & Gaggle:

  

 How would you handle mufflers?  Would you wrap them?

  

 Barry

 PS 

 Very kewl - WET - diver/instructor - retired.

 



 

 On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote] --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

Hi Barry,



The wrap Mfg claims a 70% reduction in radiated and convective heat. I don't know if it is really that much, but if you land your plane would you put your hand on your exhaust pipes? Not without loosing some skin. I can land and put my hand on my pipes and keep my skin. With all the planes I have done the header wrap on I have not seen any downsides or any issues.

  

--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

Rotax Repair Center

520-574-1080





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[b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Header wrap 3+ years later

No need usually to wrap a muffler so I would leave it alone.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Header wrap 3+ years later

On our 914 the oil hose from the sump to the tank is close to the muffler for several inches.  At least one Europa had that hose melt and rupture.  We are using teflon lined SS hose enclosed in Thermo Shield with no problems in 200 hours.  



Has anyone got any experience using wrap on the muffler to help the life of this hose?  We're a little concerned about the effects of wrapping just one surface of the muffler - would there be stress on the skin of the muffler where the wrap ends?  



Have similar concerns about wrapping the pipes.  Since they need to be unwrapped around the EGT connections and where they group and go into the turbo, does that cause stress?



Jim & Heather

Europa N241BW

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Header wrap 3+ years later

Hi All,



All hoses of oil and fuel should have the fire sleeve on it. The ends should be dip coated with "End Dip" and have a band clamp as per ASTM standards. The fire sleeve not only protects it from fire, but does a pretty fair job of insulating it from radiant heat off things like the muffler. Where you have a coolant line close to something hot or where it might rub take a piece of fire sleeve and cut it down the middle lengthwise and wrap it at the problem location and use either a couple of wire ties or safety wire to hold it in place.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:01 am Post subject: Header wrap 3+ years later

Roger & Gaggle:

  

 TEFLON hoses do not require a fire sleeve for fire protection.  But as you mention Roger, a sleeve does help in reducing heat both radiated and received.  BUT!  One area where a bit of heat shielding goes unnoticed are the metal connections.  The metal gets hotter than the hose.

   

 Barry

 On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

 

Hi All,



All hoses of oil and fuel should have the fire sleeve on it. The ends should be dip coated with "End Dip" and have a band clamp as per ASTM standards. The fire sleeve not only protects it from fire, but does a pretty fair job of insulating it from radiant heat off things like the muffler. Where you have a coolant line close to something hot or where it might rub take a piece of fire sleeve and cut it down the middle lengthwise and wrap it at the problem location and use either a couple of wire ties or safety wire to hold it in place.

 

--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

Rotax Repair Center

520-574-1080





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[b]

ultrapilot

Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 1

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Header wrap 3+ years later

Cheap place to buy header wrap is www.prosportgauges.com

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