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ejessee
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC
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 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:19 am Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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Hello,
Per my incident with the worn-out rubber spacers, I have to replace the strut fitting on the right side of my 701. I ordered one from Zenith, had it shipped next day air, and will have it painted tonight for installation on Saturday morning at KJFZ.
I am not the builder, so I am not intimately familiar with the attachment of the piece. I have a few questions I would appreciate help with.
1. Per the drawings, It looks like there are screws from the sides of the gear channel into the little fingers that insert parallel to the gear channel. Are these screws or bucked rivets.
2. Will I be able to access all the screws that hold the fitting in place by opening the access panel or will I need to remove the passenger seat panel?
3. anyone ever done this? If so, any tips on jacking up the plane for the operation?
Thanks for your help.
By the way, I also purchased a complete set of the "rubber" spacers now supplied by Zenith, they look like they should work and last much better. I hope so.
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Ernest Jessee
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JohnDRead(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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Hi Ernest;
I took a look at my, still under construction 701, there are quite a few bolts under the seat pan which can be reached with difficulty through the access hatch. Though it will be a pain I think it would be better to take the seat pan out to do the work. None of the rivets are bucked. also with the seat pan out you will be able to back drill all of the hole into the new fitting. You should look on the www.zenith.com web site to see if there is a 701 builder near you who could help since you are not the original builder. As far as jacking up the aircraft, I think I would make a low saw horse and place it in front of the gear. Good luck with the work. Just work steadily and remember it is supposed to be educational!
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 8/5/2010 8:20:47 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, eejessee(at)us.ibm.com writes:
| Quote: | --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com>
Hello,
Per my incident with the worn-out rubber spacers, I have to replace the strut fitting on the right side of my 701. I ordered one from Zenith, had it shipped next day air, and will have it painted tonight for installation on Saturday morning at KJFZ.
I am not the builder, so I am not intimately familiar with the attachment of the piece. I have a few questions I would appreciate help with.
1. Per the drawings, It looks like there are screws from the sides of the gear channel into the little fingers that insert parallel to the gear channel. Are these screws or bucked rivets.
2. Will I be able to access all the screws that hold the fitting in place by opening the access panel or will I need to remove the passenger seat panel?
3. anyone ever done this? If so, any tips on jacking up the plane for the operation?
Thanks for your help.
By the way, I also purchased a complete set of the "rubber" spacers now supplied by Zenith, they look like they should work and last much better. I hope so.
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read this topic online here:
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rrsharp(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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Also Ernest, should you not be aware, you will need the customized-head (concave) riveter head to pull the four Avex A5 rivets.
Ralph
CH701 - Jabiru 2200
[quote] ---
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Flydog1966(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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And prolly a snake,or angle drill. And some way to support the wing. When you start drilling into the steel, the bit is going to walk,the existing aluminum hole will become elongated/sloppy. A transfer punch might help.
In a message dated 8/5/2010 6:41:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rrsharp(at)cox.net writes:
[quote] Also Ernest, should you not be aware, you will need the customized-head (concave) riveter head to pull the four Avex A5 rivets.
Ralph
CH701 - Jabiru 2200
[quote] ---
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ejessee
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: Re: replacing a strut fitting |
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Thanks all,
I have the riveter with the concave head.
I have built a short saw horse to support the fusalage.
I expected I would mark the holes with a sharpie, then center-punch them and drill them on the ground to avoid slopping the aluminum holes.
I'll go to Harbor Freight and get an Angle drill tonight.
I have bought 2x4's to build a support for the wing.
Thank you very much for all your help.
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Ernest Jessee
N4931M |
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dix39(at)charter.net
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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You probably already know this, but just in case, the concave head riveter is not a standard concave head but a modified one. I'm replacing all the rivets in a 701 because the previous builder didn't use the correct head.
Best of luck,
Steve
---- ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com> wrote:
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com>
Thanks all,
I have the riveter with the concave head.
I have built a short saw horse to support the fusalage.
I expected I would mark the holes with a sharpie, then center-punch them and drill them on the ground to avoid slopping the aluminum holes.
I'll go to Harbor Freight and get an Angle drill tonight.
I have bought 2x4's to build a support for the wing.
Thank you very much for all your help.
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read
[quote][b]
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ejessee
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: replacing a strut fitting |
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Thanks. I purchased my manual rivet puller from Zenith.
Bought a close-quarters right angel drill at Harbor Freight for $29 -- it will surely last long enough to install the fitting. I'll take my rechargeable Dewalt just in case.
Thanks again all for your help. I'll be in touch. I'm leaving for Va at 4AM tomorrow morning.
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Ernest Jessee
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Flydog1966(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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I did not know that. Exactly how is it different?
No worries, I've got the Zenith one. Just curious.
In a message dated 8/6/2010 4:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dix39(at)charter.net writes:
| Quote: |
You probably already know this, but just in case, the concave head riveter is not a standard concave head but a modified one. I'm replacing all the rivets in a 701 because the previous builder didn't use the correct head. |
[quote][b]
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bobkat
Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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Holy Smokers, Flydog! Unbelievable! What a job! Are you removing EVERY rivet and replacing them? Just curious.....
From: Flydog1966(at)aol.com (Flydog1966(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:23 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: replacing a strut fitting
I did not know that. Exactly how is it different?
No worries, I've got the Zenith one. Just curious.
In a message dated 8/6/2010 4:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dix39(at)charter.net (dix39(at)charter.net) writes:
| Quote: |
You probably already know this, but just in case, the concave head riveter is not a standard concave head but a modified one. I'm replacing all the rivets in a 701 because the previous builder didn't use the correct head. |
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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Flydog1966(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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No, not me. that was dix39. I was asking what is the difference between a standard concave riveter head, and the Zenith modified concave rivet head.
In a message dated 8/6/2010 9:32:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bobkat(at)btinet.net writes:
| Quote: | Holy Smokers, Flydog! Unbelievable! What a job! Are you removing EVERY rivet and replacing them? Just curious.....
From: Flydog1966(at)aol.com (Flydog1966(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:23 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: replacing a strut fitting
I did not know that. Exactly how is it different?
No worries, I've got the Zenith one. Just curious.
In a message dated 8/6/2010 4:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dix39(at)charter.net (dix39(at)charter.net) writes:
| Quote: |
You probably already know this, but just in case, the concave head riveter is not a standard concave head but a modified one. I'm replacing all the rivets in a 701 because the previous builder didn't use the correct head. |
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
====================================
List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
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ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
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tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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Curt Thompson
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Redmond, WA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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In the ZAC Construction Manual, 4th ed, page 9, it talks about the modified rivet head. I’ve made my own and also bought some from Zenith (with the pneumatic squeezer). I think there was some instructions on how to make them in one of the videos (maybe Mark Townsend knows which one). My results look pretty close to what I get with the zenith head.
Several years ago, in the Zenair Newsletter #147 (March/April 2005) there is a method describing how to test the Avex rivets. This is how I tested a batch of my rivets:
For A4’s, I cut two .032’ AL pieces 20mm by about 80mm. For A5’s, I used .040” AL. Rivet the two together with 10mm overlap. Make sure you pull the rivets with the cupped puller head as Zenith describes/sells. Now pull the pieces apart lengthwise until they break. I used a fish scale with a 10:1 lever arm I made. Then I multiplied my readings by 10. I calibrated my scale with a bucket of water but it was pretty close anyway.
The ZAC spec says that A4’s should be 110lbs and the A5’s should be 175 lbs. I did several and they averaged out to 150 lbs and 295 lbs (respectively).
As far as replacing all of the rivets in a plane because the wrong rivet head was used, I don’t know if I would do that. The rivets are designed to hold in shear. I wonder if the head makes all that much difference. Maybe if the head was not folded over tight then there would be more corrosion (“smoked” rivets) but you should be inspecting for that. It seems to me that drilling a rivet out and replacing it might make the connection weaker due to the stretched hole the rivet is going back into.
It would be great if someone posted a closeup picture of a rivet pulled with the wrong rivet head.
Curt
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flydog1966(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 4:59 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: replacing a strut fitting
No, not me. that was dix39. I was asking what is the difference between a standard concave riveter head, and the Zenith modified concave rivet head.
In a message dated 8/6/2010 9:32:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bobkat(at)btinet.net writes:
| Quote: |
Holy Smokers, Flydog! Unbelievable! What a job! Are you removing EVERY rivet and replacing them? Just curious.....
From: Flydog1966(at)aol.com (Flydog1966(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:23 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: replacing a strut fitting
I did not know that. Exactly how is it different?
No worries, I've got the Zenith one. Just curious.
In a message dated 8/6/2010 4:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dix39(at)charter.net (dix39(at)charter.net) writes:
| Quote: |
You probably already know this, but just in case, the concave head riveter is not a standard concave head but a modified one. I'm replacing all the rivets in a 701 because the previous builder didn't use the correct head. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ====================================List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List==================================== |
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dix39(at)charter.net
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: replacing a strut fitting |
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In a message dated 8/6/2010 4:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_dix39(at)charter.net_ (mailto:dix39(at)charter.net) writes:
I bought my 701 with the wings, fuse, etc assembled thinking all I had to do was put the pieces together. When I got it home and started reading the manuals and looking at the plans I realized things were not good, the rivets had been installed using a flush head. I talked to Chris at Oshkosh after I learned this, and his advise was to replace them. Mine is an older 701, so I am planning to build it to the new higher gross while replacing rivets.
The older manual describes how to modify a full dome head to form the rivets correctly, but I bought mine from Zenith. After I got it I pulled a few rivets using a full dome, flush, and Zenith heads for comparison. The Zenith head looked like a somewhat flattened and wider full dome, but much closer to a full dome than a flush. That's the way I remember it, but that was several years ago before other priorities interfered with airplane building.
At that point I was going to sell the 701 and everything that went with it. All I sold was the mid time O-200 with a new ignition system, and a new Warp Drive prop. I'm going to try a 1915 GP VW with the Valley Engineering 1.6 : 1 redrive simply because I found it for a price I could afford. I will miss the reliability and power of the O-200, but the VW should be more economical and a little lighter.
That's my story .........
Steve
---- Flydog1966(at)aol.com wrote:
No, not me. that was dix39. I was asking what is the difference between a
standard concave riveter head, and the Zenith modified concave rivet head.
In a message dated 8/6/2010 9:32:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
bobkat(at)btinet.net writes:
Holy Smokers, Flydog! Unbelievable! What a job! Are you removing
EVERY rivet and replacing them? Just curious.....
From: _Flydog1966(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Flydog1966(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:23 PM
To: _zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: replacing a strut fitting
I did not know that. Exactly how is it different?
No worries, I've got the Zenith one. Just curious.
You probably already know this, but just in case, the concave head riveter
is not a standard concave head but a modified one. I'm replacing all the
rivets in a 701 because the previous builder didn't use the correct head.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
[quote][b]
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bryanekholm
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: Re: replacing a strut fitting |
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I hope this picture helps. There are 12 3/16' bolts plus the four A5 rivets.
Bryan
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