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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: safety pins

At 09:14 PM 6/7/2010, russ kinne wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>



 Dana

 In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more  

 in  use; admittedly mostly in  boats;  I've never even  heard of one  

 coming loose by itself.

 Seems impossible. I question your info source. 	


 IIRC it was on this list, a couple of years ago when the same subject came up.



 -Dana

 --

  Duelling is legal in Paraguay as long as both parties are registered blood donors.    [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: safety pins

Aviation accident investigation has had the phrase, "well that's never happened before." written into a report more than once I would bet. For that reason alone I would not modify the cotter rings for easy removal. The very slight improvement isn't worth it to me. I had them on my trike when I bought it and I've removed them all for the unmodified versions. For what it's worth, if you insert a fingernail between the two wires of the ring and then turn the clevis pin acts as a wedge as you spin the ring through the hole. Easy one hand installation and removal.

As for the safety clip, their one advantage is that you can secure them at the point of use by inserting a piece of cord through the loop, knotting and melting the loose end. Had them on my hang gliders like that for years.

 Check on assembly, double check on preflight. Never had either one go unclipped or uninstalled.

Rick Girard



On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote] At 09:14 PM 6/7/2010, russ kinne wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com (russkinne(at)mac.com)>



 Dana



 In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more  

 in  use; admittedly mostly in  boats;  I've never even  heard of one  

 coming loose by itself.

 Seems impossible. I question your info source.

	


 IIRC it was on this list, a couple of years ago when the same subject came up.



 -Dana

 --

  Duelling is legal in Paraguay as long as both parties are registered blood donors.    

 	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: Re: safety pins

 	  Quote: 	
		   from Chris Davis:



Ralph, Are you going to Oshkosh this year?I would love to meet you

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly  	




Chris, I'll be there weather permitting. I am there from Saturday to Wednesday morning. I usually park the Kolbra on the west side of the ultralight runway and camp on the other side of the fence in the picture. The EAA wants me to park on the east side of the runway, but I like to camp with access to showers, toilet, and car so we can drive into town for dinner and stay out of traffic. We can see the afternoon airshow and sip on our drinks from that campground.



Ralph

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Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:07 am Post subject: safety pins

> Chris, I'll be there weather permitting. I am there from Saturday to 

Wednesday morning. I usually park the Kolbra on the west side of the 

ultralight runway and camp on the other side of the fence in the picture. 

The EAA wants me to park on the east side of the runway, but I like to camp 

with access to showers, toilet, and car so we can drive into town for dinner 

and stay out of traffic. We can see the afternoon airshow and sip on our 

drinks from that campground.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Ralph


	




Ralph:



That's a good looking bird.



I know exactly where you are parked.



Reminds me of the many years spent in the UL Camp with friends.



Are many people camping with their airplanes on the east side of the 

airstrip since they started allowing that?



Big problem camping where spectators can see your airplane is pushing it to 

your tie down spot.  UL and Lt Planes aren't authorized to taxi like the 

rest of the Oshkosh fleet of visiting aircraft.  EAA still treats us like 

bastard children way down on the south end.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: Re: safety pins

 	  Quote: 	
		  John Hauck:



Ralph:



That's a good looking bird.



I know exactly where you are parked.



Reminds me of the many years spent in the UL Camp with friends.



Are many people camping with their airplanes on the east side of the 

airstrip since they started allowing that?



Big problem camping where spectators can see your airplane is pushing it to  your tie down spot.  UL and Lt Planes aren't authorized to taxi like the 

rest of the Oshkosh fleet of visiting aircraft.  EAA still treats us like 

bastard children way down on the south end.



john h

mkIII 	




John and others,



Camping on the east side means pushing the plane and it's harder going to the strip because it's uphill slightly. One advantage of parking there is your plane gets more attention and you could get in an EAA video. Only a few of us park on the west side now, but I do it for convenience. Maybe this year the EAA will not allow me to park there.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

gotime242

Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 52
Location: West Palm Beach, FL

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: Re: safety pins

Sorry for bringing this thread up out of the grave, but i have a quick question. 



I have the safety pins (but just ordered safety rings)....when i picked the plane up the previous owner would put TWO safety pins in each hole. So..so far i have done the same. Anyone else do this? I kinda of worry that they might interfere with each other, and maybe give it reason to come loose....but on the other hand just one in there seems kind of weak. 



Thoughts?



Thanks

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: safety pins

> I have the safety pins (but just ordered safety rings)....when i picked the plane up the previous owner would put TWO safety pins in each hole. So..so far i have done the same. Anyone else do this? I kinda of worry that they might interfere with each other, and maybe give it reason to come loose....but on the other hand just one in there seems kind of weak. 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Thoughts?


	


  Yeah.  One safety ring in round hole is worth two pins in a bunch!

 

Confucius

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: Re: safety pins

If you can get two safety rings into a clevis pin hole, it is likely that they are too darned small.  Personally, I prefer to use as large a wire diameter as will fit into the hole; but that is not necessary.  Be careful if you are using tiny rings (small O.D.) as they may require excessive stretching during insertion into a large pin.  You don't want the coils to have a permanent spread.

_________________
Jerry King

gotime242

Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 52
Location: West Palm Beach, FL

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: Re: safety pins

I was saying two safety pins in the hole. The rings i just ordered are about 1" and some .80" OD...hopefully those work well.

dchristn(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: safety pins

A friend of mine addressed my worries about those safety pins by saying that all the stress is on the thing it is attached to not on the safety pin itself.  The only thing the safety pin is there to do is make sure that thing doesn’t fall out.  It does the same job as a nut on a bolt.  It is your job to check those safety pins every so often to make sure they are there and correctly fastened.  If you fold up everything after every flight, as I do, You are basically performing that check before and after each flight.  In my the estimation, two safety pin in the same hole is like superglueing your belt and suspenders to your trousers.  Since buying my Firestar I I’ve changed out all the safety pins with brand new stainless steel safety pins from Home depot.  They work great and are a lot less expensive.  

This advice was given to me by the gentleman who owns Airtech, Inc. in southeast Louisiana and has been involved with Ultralight and LSA aircraft for more years then we’d both like to admit to.  

   

Doug Christian  

Kolb Firestar I  

   

   

       [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Safety pins

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  



 Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.



 -Dana

 	




The rings with the ends bent can most definitely work themselves off under vibration.   This seems like it would be impossible, but there are enough reliable reports out there to know it can happen.   I personally know a person this started to happen to, luckily he could see this ring slowly starting to work itself off, and was able to land before it was gone.  He said the ring just very slowly started to work off, and slowly kept going and going as he watched disbelief, he found a place to land before it was gone.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: safety pins

Just to make it clear, I use the NON bent cotter rings on my Kolb, they are much less likely to come off than safety pins.  Safety pins can pop open by tall grass, or anything that brushes up or pushes on them.



As far as the bent cotter rings for boats, sailboats do not experience the high frequency, high amplitude vibrations throughout the hull that can work these loose, so they are perfect for their purpose on boats, but not in planes.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

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