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kf30hm(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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I plan to add an Aux. electric fuel pump on my Kitfox 3 with 582. What is the best arangement, parallel or series? I plan to use the pulse driven original fuel pump most of the time. The current pump has two outlets, one for each carb. How have others been doing it?
Harold McConnell
KF3, 582, IVO 2 blade medium, C box
NE North Dakota
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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Parallel. Too many times series results in over pressure if they end up on at the same time.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
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jridgway
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 64
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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I have a question on this based on my own experience and the two
recommendations so far on this thread. I ran a 912 rather than the 582, but
had the Facet pump in series. At first, I used to run it on first start and
take off only because of the angle of attack and reduced head pressure to
the engine mounted pump. Then I got lazy and never used it except on one
instance when I had fuel flow issues due to too tight firesleeve clamps
impeding fuel flow and to test it from time to time. This was a very simple
system and I never had a hint of overpressure problems.
With a parallel aux pump, as I see it, you would need check valves to
prevent the aux pump from simply setting up a circular fuel flow around the
parallel lines. If you are worried about over pressure complications, in a
series set-up, why not simply put a pressure regulator between the engine
mounted pump and the carburetors. Much cleaner in my opinion and fewer
parts to give grief if something fails.
Or - what am I missing?
Lowell
--------------------------------------------------
From: "jridgway" <jridgway(at)academicplanet.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:04 PM
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Aux. electric fuel pump
| Quote: |
<jridgway(at)academicplanet.com>
probably should also add a pressure regulator after the "t" on the output
side. I was told to set it at 4-5 lbs. Do not want to overpressure the
float valves. Think there are other post on this issue..good luck..jack
[Wink] [Wink] [Arrow] [Arrow]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310745#310745
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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Hi Harold,
Some main engine pumps don't do well with in series setups.
Rotax had problems with in series systems because of to high a pressure and flow(912). This was one of the reasons they recalled a number of pumps. You are much better off with it in parallel. The mechanical pump on the Rotax has been working since late 1989 and on many planes without them and usually very reliable. Many people with high wing aircraft don't even have aux. pumps. Check valves are easy to come by and a good idea if you are set up in parallel. I have had both types of planes with and without aux. fuel pumps. I never use them unless there was a failure or an engine starting to quit. I would turn it on before I started the first time during the day just to hear it run for a few seconds, then just start on the engine fuel pump. I have also used these pumps as fuel transfer pumps from an aux. tank to the main.The Faucet pump is probably the most common. If you over pressure the system it will go past the needle valve in the carbs and over flow out the vent tubes then into the airbox, air cleaner or out to no where depending on how you have your system setup and how old a system you have.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
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icubob(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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a pressure regulator adds another failure point, so do check valves. i had a pressure regulator in my series system. after finding out one of the failure modes of the regulator was no flow at all i removed the regulator. i use a series set up and i dont have any overflow issues . i did at first but fiddled with spring pressure in the mech. pump and i have no problems now and i think the series has the least failure points.
bob noffs
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)>
I have a question on this based on my own experience and the two recommendations so far on this thread. I ran a 912 rather than the 582, but had the Facet pump in series. At first, I used to run it on first start and take off only because of the angle of attack and reduced head pressure to the engine mounted pump. Then I got lazy and never used it except on one instance when I had fuel flow issues due to too tight firesleeve clamps impeding fuel flow and to test it from time to time. This was a very simple system and I never had a hint of overpressure problems.
With a parallel aux pump, as I see it, you would need check valves to prevent the aux pump from simply setting up a circular fuel flow around the parallel lines. If you are worried about over pressure complications, in a series set-up, why not simply put a pressure regulator between the engine mounted pump and the carburetors. Much cleaner in my opinion and fewer parts to give grief if something fails.
Or - what am I missing?
Lowell
--------------------------------------------------
From: "jridgway" <jridgway(at)academicplanet.com (jridgway(at)academicplanet.com)>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:04 PM
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Aux. electric fuel pump
[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jridgway" <jridgway(at)academicplanet.com (jridgway(at)academicplanet.com)>
probably should also add a pressure regulator after the "t" on the output side. I was told to set it at 4-5 lbs. Do not want to overpressure the float valves. Think there are other post on this issue..good luck..jack
[Wink] [Wink] [Arrow] [Arrow]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310745#310745
s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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[b]
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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Lowell:
I can't speak for the 912 but I do know that at least some C180/185's have
an electric auxiliary pump which autlmatically comes on when the throttle is
full open. There is also a switch to turn on the pump manually. The POH, I
believe, states to turn on the auxiliary pump for takeoff. That system is
definitely set up in series.
I wouldn't presume to say either parallel or series is better. I think the
series would be lighter and less complex because it wouldn't have multiple
feed lines and check valves. On the other hand if you are looking for
redundancy then a complete parallel system is the only way to go.
Noel
--
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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leach(at)farmside.co.nz
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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Like Lowell I have a 912 with a Facet pump in series on my Avid. I
installed the auxilliary pump to try and improve starting and it seems to
have been successful. I only turn it on for a few seconds to prime the
carbs before cold starting and then turn it off again. I test ran the
engine on the ground with both pumps going for about an hour at about half
throttle. There was no sign of any fuel overflow from the carbs. I have
had this setup for 200 hours flying with no problems but I have never used
the aux pump except for cold starting.
Brian
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jridgway
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Aux. electric fuel pump |
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If you do not want to run a pressure regulator then run your electric pumps in parallel and just use it during T/O, LANDING, and OVER HAZARD AREAs. THOUGHTS ?????
Jack
Do check it during preflight runup. Have a fuel pressure guage?
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