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Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

I am once again seriously looking at trading my 582 for an HKS and was trying to do a little reading up on it here.  It seems in 2007 there was quite a bit of conversation about it and one subscriber named Dave, Aerobatics(at)AOL.COM was talking about having a side by side comparison with the two engines.



So Dave, did the fly off ever happen?  What were the results?



I assume there are now more people flying with HKSs and I would love to hear you chime in.  Are people thinking it flies side by side with the 582?  Slightly less powerful?  Same as a 503?  What prop have you tried, what works?  I think I will be alright if my take off run increases 100 feet dual (oh no, 350 feet to take off) and my rate of climb suffers less the 100 fpm.  I would love to hear what people are saying now though since it is not a small chunk of money to make the change.  Yes I know it is cheaper over the long run.



Thanks to anyone who can shed more light.



James

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Mnflyer

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

Hi, I converted my Model III 4.5 years ago and now have 430 hrs on the HKS. In my opinion it is equal to the 582 when it comes to power, TO roll and climb my cruise increased about 5 mph fuel consumption went from 4.5 gph to 3 gph operating costs are 1/2 of what the 582 was about $12.5 vs $25.00, TBO is now 1000 hrs. Yes the cost is more than overhauling the 582 would be but in the not to long run it is much less money, I now figure my engine cost me little or no money vs the cost for 2 overhauls and the extra fuel. I no longer have to rejet every spring and fall spark plugs last 200 hrs vs 25. I have found that a 2 blade Warp Drive prop has been working good, some guys are now going to the Aerolux prop and seem very impressed and happy with it.  The HKS is not a 503 in any comparison it is a full 60 hp engine and needs the right propeller to produce it rated power and preformance.

_________________
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III

aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

try youtube kitfox short field 582 kf 2--

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

582 in action    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1qKTvHOAg&feature=fvsr

Let's see a HKS movie please before you say that the power is the same.

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

Mnflyer

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

 	  dave wrote: 	
		  582 in action    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1qKTvHOAg&feature=fvsr

Let's see a HKS movie please before you say that the power is the same. 	




I have 277 hrs flying a 582 and now 430 flying the HKS how many hours do you have flying a HKS?

Anyone can make a video look good not a real measure of performance.

_________________
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

GB, what size Warp are you turning?

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

 	  Mnflyer wrote: 	
		   	  dave wrote: 	
		  582 in action    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1qKTvHOAg&feature=fvsr

Let's see a HKS movie please before you say that the power is the same. 	




I have 277 hrs flying a 582 and now 430 flying the HKS how many hours do you have flying a HKS?

Anyone can make a video look good not a real measure of performance. 	




Well why not post some numbers? Or a video ?



My KF IV on 21 " wheels 90 - 92 mph (at) 2000 '

om Amphib  float  85-86 mph  (at) 2000'



582 rotax 



I have thousands of Rotax hours



zero HKS hours



What is your numbers ?

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

Contact the people at greenskyadventures.com  They have done quite a bit of work with the HKS/Kitfox combo and can sell you a complete firewall forward kit for the engine.



When I spoke with them this summer they were still saying cruise difference was negligible.  Take-off/climb performance was the same if you had the modified kitfox exhaust, but obviously reduced if your 582 was actually making the 65 HP.  



I was wondering how long the 700e would be in production with the 700T being introduced, but they seem pretty confident that HKS will keep 3 engines the 700e, the 700T, and a possible future engine which is the 700T without the turbo-charger.

_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

napierm(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

I've got an HKS but am not flying yet.  Mine has the 3.47 gearbox which

isn't ideal for the Kitfox but it was on the used engine I bought.  I

have a 70" three bladed Kiev which is a combination that performs well

in the Skyranger.  There is a Super Koala flying with the same combo but

I can't get any real numbers.  A guy with a similar setup in an Avid

(Apples and Oranges, I know) gets 95mph cruise.  



The HKS will produce 60 hp and maybe a couple more with the right intake

and exhaust system (I think the short rear intake produces more power

and the exhaust needs big long pipes).  The 582 as installed in the

Kitfox loses a few hp (without an exhaust mod).  So an HKS swap is

pretty even.  The all up weight is within a pound or two.  The weight

does go a little more forward due to the loss of the belly radiator.



GB's plane doesn't have fairings on the LG or struts so it isn't very

fast.  He could gain 10mph with some work.



One thing I would like to do with mine is to actually use the NACA ring

cowl for what it was intended: a pressure cooling system.  It has that

massive forward facing hole so use it to pressure cool the cylinders,

oil cooler, and pressure the carbs.  Basically use that big intake for

everything and provide a low drag exit ramp.  This was one of the tricks

Ray Ward liked to use to reduce drag.



YMMV,



Mark Napier



Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311766#311766

Mnflyer

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

 	  WurlyBird wrote: 	
		  GB, what size Warp are you turning? 	


Hi James, I have a 68" 2 blade Warp Drive installed, originally I used the 3 balde 66" GSC prop that was on the 582 while I got it fine tuned it never produced the TO and climb that I now get with the 2 blade Warp Drive. As  posted guys are now going with the AreoLux prop and are very pleased with it.

Hi Mark I installed the PVC strut streamlined covers a couple of years ago and they do make a noticeable improvement in cruise. 

Also as post Jerry at Greensky is a great guy and very knowledgeable on both engines and is more than willing to provide with information etc.

_________________
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

Sigh, I have been talking to Jerry at Greensky and he is a great guy to deal with.  Unfortunately he is also a great and subtle salesman.  I have just been getting information from him, you know, for "future reference" and now I think I am in trouble.  So what is a good gift for the Mrs to say "oops, I may have bought an engine"?



Now my curiosity is moving towards that Aero Lux prop.  The Greensky sight claims that even at 63" the 2 blade prop they used outperformed 8 other prop combos on the HKS.  How is that even possible?!?

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

icubob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: Old Thread, Revisited; HKS vs 582

someone has to be #1.

  bob noffs

 On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 6:33 AM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)>

 

Sigh, I have been talking to Jerry at Greensky and he is a great guy to deal with.  Unfortunately he is also a great and subtle salesman.  I have just been getting information from him, you know, for "future reference" and now I think I am in trouble.  So what is a good gift for the Mrs to say "oops, I may have bought an engine"?

 

Now my curiosity is moving towards that Aero Lux prop.  The Greensky sight claims that even at 63" the b lade prop they used outperformed 8 other prop combos on the HKS.  How is that even possible?!?



--------

 James

Kitfox 3 / 582 / 72&quot; IVO 2 blade GA

50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,

     now she lies in wait





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