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Doors and body work

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rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: Doors and body work

Fellow builders,

    There's been a lot of talk lately  regarding doors and seals so I thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos)  .   Two albums on the subject listed below.

  

 Some observations along the way:

  

 1)  Regarding the door seals:   I  went the McMaster route,  however, when I got done trimming the door jambs  back to the proper depth to allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step  further.   The door jamb profile doesn't naturally match  the U shaped profile of the seal, so the seal would be prone to  slipping off without some type of adhesive.   I decided to use a scrap  piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a filler/epoxy profile back to the  door jamb that exactly matches the door seal.   I took a 2 foot  section of door seal and injected a mix of west system epoxy and structural  filler,  (used the cake decorator bag trick to fill the U shaped profile)  then installed the seal section on the door jamb and let it set- up.    Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times around the door jamb until the whole  thing has the exact mating profile to the seal.    Now the little  retaining tang inside the U shaped seal channel has something to grab  hold of and the door seals hold onto the door jamb very well.

  

 2) Regarding filling and sanding around the  windows:   The electrical tape technique for masking off the windows  works great,  however I found with black electrical tape it was very hard  during the sanding process to distinguish between the tape and the  filler.    I switched to orange electrical tape,   a  huge improvement!.  As I'd sand the filler down to the tape the color of  the tape line would really stand out providing much better guidance in terms of  sanding depth onto to the tape.

  

 3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler  dust:     Whilst all this sanding and filling is going on I  found that when I would clean up the plane with the shop vac I'd develop an  enormous static charge on the plane, then when I touched it, wham!  the  mother of static shocks would almost knock me down.     Solution,  I grounded the plane!. Problem solved.   I just  took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in the tail of  the plane.   All better.

  

 http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#

  

 http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#

  

 Bob Newman

 TCW Technologies, LLC

 www.tcwtech.com

 builder #40176

   [quote][b]

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: Doors and body work

3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler  dust:     

 One thing I will caution is don’t use the vacuum  when brooming will work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In  my case the dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to  overheat or something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the  end of a very reliable vac I had for years.

 If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed,  clean the filter often

 Take it for whatever it's worth.

 Pascal

  



  From: bob-tcw (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com) 

 Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 6:01 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Doors and body work

 



 Fellow builders,

    There's been a lot of talk lately  regarding doors and seals so I thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos)  .   Two albums on the subject listed below.

  

 Some observations along the way:

  

 1)  Regarding the door seals:   I  went the McMaster route,  however, when I got done trimming the door jambs  back to the proper depth to allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step  further.   The door jamb profile doesn't naturally match  the U shaped profile of the seal, so the seal would be prone to  slipping off without some type of adhesive.   I decided to use a scrap  piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a filler/epoxy profile back to the  door jamb that exactly matches the door seal.   I took a 2 foot  section of door seal and injected a mix of west system epoxy and structural  filler,  (used the cake decorator bag trick to fill the U shaped profile)  then installed the seal section on the door jamb and let it set- up.    Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times around the door jamb until the whole  thing has the exact mating profile to the seal.    Now the little  retaining tang inside the U shaped seal channel has something to grab  hold of and the door seals hold onto the door jamb very well.

  

 2) Regarding filling and sanding around the  windows:   The electrical tape technique for masking off the windows  works great,  however I found with black electrical tape it was very hard  during the sanding process to distinguish between the tape and the  filler.    I switched to orange electrical tape,   a  huge improvement!.  As I'd sand the filler down to the tape the color of  the tape line would really stand out providing much better guidance in terms of  sanding depth onto to the tape.

  

 3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler  dust:     Whilst all this sanding and filling is going on I  found that when I would clean up the plane with the shop vac I'd develop an  enormous static charge on the plane, then when I touched it, wham!  the  mother of static shocks would almost knock me down.     Solution,  I grounded the plane!. Problem solved.   I just  took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in the tail of  the plane.   All better.

  

 http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#

  

 http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#

  

 Bob Newman

 TCW Technologies, LLC

 www.tcwtech.com

 builder #40176

[quote]



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[b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: Doors and body work

Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend ....   

     Best advice is clean often.  I have three vacs .... a Sears shop vac     that converts into a leaf (and hangar) blower and two smaller ones.      The Sears has a pleated paper filter and the smaller ones use a foam     filter.  I bought a kit that uses a microfiber cloth to cover the     foam filters ....... because the foam filters still let a lot of     'dust' through.  I can wash these and re-use or just blow them off     after each use.  I haven't found anything to cover the large paper     filter, but shop air cleans it really well if done often.  

     The reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard     shop ..... and his central vac ..... that got clogged with foam dust     and burnt like Pascal's.  Any light material coats the filter     reducing airflow .... and that motor really needs it for cooling.      Sand, however, seems to fall into the bottom of of the vac without     clinging to the filters.

     

     Pascal's advice to clean often is spot on!!!

     Linn

     

     BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on     the shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a broom     won't go ....... 

     

     

     On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:     [quote]                            3) Regarding vacuuming up the           filler dust:     

       One thing I will caution is don’t           use the vacuum when brooming will work. The fiberglass will           literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the dust was fine           enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or           something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that           was the end of a very reliable vac I had for years.

       If one is going to vacuum, and I           do when needed, clean the filter often

       Take it for whatever it's worth.

       Pascal

       

     [b]

Neal.George(at)hurlburt.a
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:38 am Post subject: Doors and body work

Check your local hardware store for shop vac filter bags designed for

drywall dust.  Much better than the pleated filter alone.



neal   



================

3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:     

One thing I will caution is don't use the vacuum when brooming will

work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the

dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or

something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the end

of a very reliable vac I had for years.

If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter often

Take it for whatever it's worth.

Pascal

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: Doors and body work

The secret weapon for my Shop Vac is to use the optional filter     bag.  I have a "shop-vac" from Lowes or HomeDepot.  It comes with a     foam filter covering the fan input but disposable filter bags are     sold as an option.  The bag captures virtually all dust keeping not     only the exhaust dust free, but also the inside of the vacuum.   It     has a lot of surface area so it doesn't immediately clog.   Very     effective.   I figured this one out when doing some concrete     grinding in the house.... there are things worse than fiberglass.

     

     If you are using a standard wet/dry shop vac - get and use a filter     bag for better results.   Change it with reasonable frequency.

     

     Fiberglass, sandpaper, and a bagged shop vac - we're attached at the     hip.  Now if I just had a remote control for the thing.

     

     Will try to attach pic...

     

     Bill "taking a last pass on the doors" Watson

     

     

     On 9/20/2010 7:49 AM, Linn Walters wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend ....   

       Best advice is clean often.  I have three vacs .... a Sears shop       vac that converts into a leaf (and hangar) blower and two smaller       ones.  The Sears has a pleated paper filter and the smaller ones       use a foam filter.  I bought a kit that uses a microfiber cloth to       cover the foam filters ....... because the foam filters still let       a lot of 'dust' through.  I can wash these and re-use or just blow       them off after each use.  I haven't found anything to cover the       large paper filter, but shop air cleans it really well if done       often.  

       The reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard       shop ..... and his central vac ..... that got clogged with foam       dust and burnt like Pascal's.  Any light material coats the filter       reducing airflow .... and that motor really needs it for cooling.        Sand, however, seems to fall into the bottom of of the vac without       clinging to the filters.

       

       Pascal's advice to clean often is spot on!!!

       Linn

       

       BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on       the shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a       broom won't go ....... 

       

       

       On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		                                      3) Regarding vacuuming up the             filler dust:     

         One thing I will caution is             don’t use the vacuum when brooming will work. The fiberglass             will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the dust was             fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat             or something, it literally started to spark and smoked and             that was the end of a very reliable vac I had for years.

         If one is going to vacuum, and             I do when needed, clean the filter often

         Take it for whatever it's             worth.

         Pascal

shop;_vac_bag.jpg

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partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: Doors and body work

One last little piece of advise... buy an extension for the vacuum so you can put it outside while vacuuming.  We also did this when removing a tile floor in the house.  Keeps the fine dust OUT.

 Don



--- On Mon, 9/20/10, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: Doors and body work

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, September 20, 2010, 4:49 AM



 Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend ....  

Best advice is clean often.  I have three vacs .... a Sears shop vac that converts into a leaf (and hangar) blower and two smaller ones.  The Sears has a pleated paper filter and the smaller ones use a foam filter.  I bought a kit that uses a microfiber cloth to cover the foam filters ....... because the foam filters still let a lot of 'dust' through.  I can wash these and re-use or just blow them off after each use.  I haven't found anything to cover the large paper filter, but shop air cleans it really well if done often.  

The reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard shop ..... and his central vac ..... that got clogged with foam dust and burnt like Pascal's.  Any light material coats the filter reducing airflow .... and that motor really needs it for  cooling.  Sand, however, seems to fall into the bottom of of the vac without clinging to the filters.



Pascal's advice to clean often is spot on!!!

Linn



BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on the shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a broom won't go ....... 

On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		     3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:     

 One thing I will caution is donâ€™t use the vacuum when brooming will work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the end of a very reliable vac I had for years.

 If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter often

 Take it for whatever it's worth.

 Pascal







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=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com

blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


         [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: Doors and body work

BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean  the shop (I have a big door on the shop) and hangars because it gets underneath  stuff where a broom won't go ....... 

  

 I have a HF air nozzle that I use to blow the excess off  the ground etc. I also use it to blow dust off the foam filter- amazing how much  come out of the filters even after I "think" it was cleaned.

  

  



  From: Linn Walters (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net) 

 Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 4:49 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Doors and body work

 



Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend ....  

Best advice is clean  often.  I have three vacs .... a Sears shop vac that converts into a leaf  (and hangar) blower and two smaller ones.  The Sears has a pleated paper  filter and the smaller ones use a foam filter.  I bought a kit that uses a  microfiber cloth to cover the foam filters ....... because the foam filters  still let a lot of 'dust' through.  I can wash these and re-use or just  blow them off after each use.  I haven't found anything to cover the large  paper filter, but shop air cleans it really well if done often.  

The  reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard shop ..... and his  central vac ..... that got clogged with foam dust and burnt like Pascal's.   Any light material coats the filter reducing airflow .... and that motor really  needs it for cooling.  Sand, however, seems to fall into the bottom of of  the vac without clinging to the filters.



Pascal's advice to clean often  is spot on!!!

Linn



BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I  have a big door on the shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where  a broom won't go ....... 

On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:  [quote]          3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler    dust:     

   One thing I will caution is don’t use the vacuum    when brooming will work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac.    In my case the dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to    overheat or something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was    the end of a very reliable vac I had for years.

   If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed,    clean the filter often

   Take it for whatever it's worth.

   Pascal







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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: Doors and body work

Bob

  

 Your trick for making a profile on the door edge is positively  brilliant. Given that I really don't want to ever finish my doors, I may try  that as well.

  

 Cheers

  

 Les

  

 #40643



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  bob-tcw

Sent: September-19-10 7:02 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Doors and body  work

 

 Fellow builders,

    There's been a lot of talk lately  regarding doors and seals so I thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos)  .   Two albums on the subject listed below.

  

 Some observations along the way:

  

 1)  Regarding the door seals:   I  went the McMaster route,  however, when I got done trimming the door jambs  back to the proper depth to allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step  further.   The door jamb profile doesn't naturally match  the U shaped profile of the seal, so the seal would be prone to  slipping off without some type of adhesive.   I decided to use a scrap  piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a filler/epoxy profile back to the  door jamb that exactly matches the door seal.   I took a 2 foot  section of door seal and injected a mix of west system epoxy and structural  filler,  (used the cake decorator bag trick to fill the U shaped profile)  then installed the seal section on the door jamb and let it set- up.    Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times around the door jamb until the whole  thing has the exact mating profile to the seal.    Now the little  retaining tang inside the U shaped seal channel has something to grab  hold of and the door seals hold onto the door jamb very well.

  

 2) Regarding filling and sanding around the  windows:   The electrical tape technique for masking off the windows  works great,  however I found with black electrical tape it was very hard  during the sanding process to distinguish between the tape and the  filler.    I switched to orange electrical tape,   a  huge improvement!.  As I'd sand the filler down to the tape the color of  the tape line would really stand out providing much better guidance in terms of  sanding depth onto to the tape.

  

 3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler  dust:     Whilst all this sanding and filling is going on I  found that when I would clean up the plane with the shop vac I'd develop an  enormous static charge on the plane, then when I touched it, wham!  the  mother of static shocks would almost knock me down.     Solution,  I grounded the plane!. Problem solved.   I just  took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in the tail of  the plane.   All better.

  

 http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#

  

 http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#

  

 Bob Newman

 TCW Technologies, LLC

 www.tcwtech.com

 builder #40176

[quote]



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[b]

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: Doors and body work

Hahaha, I absolutely agree with both Les and Bob.

     

     Bob, you forgot to put up a warning, "This post could cause you     countless more hours of work."

     

     I am on a parallel track and glad to see similar things from someone     else. My door frame looked similar to yours after trimming for     mcmaster seals. Especially along the forward edge, near that elbow     bend, I was worried about making it too thin, but I see you had the     same experience.

     

     I wish I had known about the wonderful qualities of using electrical     tape for masking work earlier. It easily bends around corners and     won't tear, which both masking tape and blue painters tape will not     do easily.

     

     Still on the fence about doing the door edge work. Wish I had bought     some extra door seal material.

     

     Jae

     40533

     

     On 9/20/2010 8:41 AM, Les Kearney wrote:     [quote]                            Bob

        

       Your trick for making             a profile on the door edge is positively brilliant. Given             that I really don't want to ever finish my doors, I may try             that as well.

        

       Cheers

        

       Les

        

       #40643

       

       

     [b]

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: Doors and body work

Jae, I too used electrical tape for some window masking.  Not sure     what you refer to as "Blue painters" and "masking" tapes but if you     mean the paper type tapes, yes, agreed that the electrical tape     works great for corners and stuff.

     

     What I subsequently found out was that 1/2" blue 3M plastic tape     #471 is better than plain electrical tape.  One difference is that     the #471 doesn't stretch like electrical tape (a desirable     characteristic for electrical work). It stretches just enough to go     around corners but not enough to distort and subsequently pull     away.  By not stretching so much, I found that lays down a     straighter line and that it won't pull off from the corners as the     electrical tape tends to do if you stretch around corners.  1/2"     works much better than 3/4" when going around corners and is the     only size I'm using.

     

     For gross masking, I'd suggest the product 1-up from seems to be     sold as blue painters tape.  I've been using Scotch 233+ with 1.5"     having the most utility.  It's a light green.  The adhesive is     better and it's just clearly better stuff.  They seem to have a blue     and some other line 1 up from the green too.  I'll probably learn     the hard way when and where the 1-up from green is needed.  At this     point, I"m just up to high fill primer on the glass and interior     paint.

     

     For you first time painters, the best thing you can do is find a     local paint distributor and ask a lot of questions and buy all your     stuff there.  Prices are better than Home Depot and they sell key     stuff in large sizes like rolls of adhesive sandpaper and big cheap     rolls of cheap-good-excellent quality masking papers.  Somebody in     there is probably real knowledgeable and might get a kick out of     your project.

     

     On 9/20/2010 12:09 PM, Jae Chang wrote:     [quote]              Hahaha, I absolutely agree with both Les and Bob.

       

       Bob, you forgot to put up a warning, "This post could cause you       countless more hours of work."

       

       I am on a parallel track and glad to see similar things from       someone else. My door frame looked similar to yours after trimming       for mcmaster seals. Especially along the forward edge, near that       elbow bend, I was worried about making it too thin, but I see you       had the same experience.

       

       I wish I had known about the wonderful qualities of using       electrical tape for masking work earlier. It easily bends around       corners and won't tear, which both masking tape and blue painters       tape will not do easily.

       

       Still on the fence about doing the door edge work. Wish I had       bought some extra door seal material.

       

       Jae

       40533

       

       

     [b]

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: doors and body work

The idea of grounding the plane is great, but wasteful. I hooked my wiring to the vacuum and used the electricity to power it. Kind of like perpetual motion. Maybe I can store up the charge from all the work, including sanding and I will forget the gas for the first flight.

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: doors and body work

Is John the recipient of some of that government money for wind generators?  

   

Gary Specketer  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez

 Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 10:22 PM

 To: RV 10 group

 Subject: doors and body work  

  

   

The idea of grounding the plane is great, but wasteful. I hooked my wiring to the vacuum and used the electricity to power it. Kind of like perpetual motion. Maybe I can store up the charge from all the work, including sanding and I will forget the gas for the first flight.    

    [quote]



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[b]

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: doors and body work

Sounds like good, "Green" technology.

  

 Dave Leikam

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

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