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912 Ignition Question

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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: 912 Ignition Question

<< I flipped both ignition switches to “off,” but nothing happened – the engine continued to idle. >>  

   

   

Kolb Friends –  

   

A month ago I posted this problem to the List, and received several inputs – thanks to all who shared your ideas.  

   

Seems I fixed the problem, and I’d like to pass on what I learned.  

   

As most of the replies I received suggested, it was indeed a grounding problem.  Nothing wrong with the 912 ignition modules.  The difficult part of it was that there was no obvious clue, like a broken wire or disconnected ground wire terminal.  

   

I ended up disconnecting every ground wire associated with the ignition system, cleaned the terminals, and reconnected them.  Did this to the wires on the back of my ignition switches, the ground wires running from the panel instruments to the common ground wire, the engine-to-airframe ground wire, the voltage regulator ground wires, and a few others.  

   

Then, bingo – everything worked just like it is supposed to when I test ran the engine and flipped the kill switches to “off.”  Not sure exactly WHICH single wire it might’ve been, but … it was clearly a case of a corroded connection somewhere in the system.  

   

If this helps anyone, sometime in the future, who experiences this same problem, then it was worth the time to share this with you all.  

   

Fly safe –  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Mark-III, 912ul, PowerFin-72  

Sandia Park, NM  

   

      [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: 912 Ignition Question

For those that live in damper climates close to the water I would be using either a dielectric grease on all my electrical connections or something like Corrosion-X. Something to keep out the moisture.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:46 am Post subject: 912 Ignition Question

Roger/All

  

 I have been struggling with electrical connections on my electric golf cart this summer. I got the not so bright idea that I would clean all the terminals and coat them all with dielectric grease. Big mistake the cart was dead. I would not even take a charge. I did some research and found the dielectric grease is a insulator (apparently a very good one) and the only solvent that would clean it is MEK. I then checked with the golf cart customer support and they recommended petroleum jelly. I cleaned a bunch, MEKed a BUNCH, and coated with petroleum jelly and all is well again.

   

 The morel of the story is don't use dielectric grease on anything that you want to conduct electricity. A small dab is fine on spark plug boots but little else in our airplanes.



 Rick Neilsen

 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



 On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

 

For those that live in damper climates close to the water I would be using either a dielectric grease on all my electrical connections or something like Corrosion-X. Something to keep out the moisture.



--------

 Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

Rotax Repair Center

520-574-1080





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[b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: 912 Ignition Question

After spending almost 40 years in the trucking business, I can confirm that petroleum jelly is the best way to protect a connection.  Works great on battery terminals.  Clean and tighten, then thoroughly coat with the jelly.  Works better than any commercial coating or spray, and a lot cheaper.  Battery acid won't go through it. The di-electric grease should only be used as a sealant after a clean, tight connection is made.  The stuff is used in a lot of light connections, but a loose connector won't scratch it's way to a good contact.  I always coat after the connection.

  

                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                     Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                     FS 447

 [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: 912 Ignition Question

 

 >The morel of the story is don't use dielectric grease on anything that you want to conduct electricity. 

 >Rick Neilsen

  

 Roger, Rick, et al,

  

   As Rick said, a dielectric grease is by definition an insulator.  See the following from Wikipedia;

  

 A dielectric is an electrical [url=/wiki/Insulator_(electrical)]insulator[/url] that may be [url=/wiki/Dielectric#Dipolar_polarization]polarized[/url] by an applied [url=/wiki/Electric_field]electric field[/url]. When a dielectric is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material, as in a [url=/wiki/Electrical_conductor]conductor[/url], but only slightly shift from their average equilibrium positions causing dielectric polarization. Because of dielectric polarization, positive charges are displaced toward the field and negative charges shift in the opposite direction. This creates an internal electric field that partly compensates the external field inside the dielectric.[url=#cite_note-0][1][/url] If a dielectric is composed of weakly bonded molecules, those molecules not only become polarized, but also reorient so that their symmetry axis aligns to the field.[url=#cite_note-britannica1-1][2][/url]

  

   For proper elecrical connection protection, all autoparts stores carry stuff that is made for exactly that purpose.  I have

 the spray stuff that is purple, or dark blue.  It also comes in a tube.  Good stuff, too!!!

  

 Mike Welch

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: Re: 912 Ignition Question

How to apply:	

Die electric grease should be used as a moisture block not an electrical conduction enhancer. 

 Dielectric grease is a nonconductive grease. Because it is nonconductive it does not enhance the flow electrical current. Electrical conductors should not be coated with dielectric grease prior to being mated. However, dielectric grease is often applied to electrical connectors, particularly ones which contain rubber gaskets, as a way to provide a nonconductive lubricant and sealer for the rubber portions of the connector.



The widest use of dielectric grease is in high-voltage connections associated with spark plugs. The grease is applied to the rubber boot of the plug wire. This helps the rubber boot slide onto the ceramic insulator of the plug. The grease also acts to seal the rubber boot, while at the same time preventing the rubber from becoming stuck to the ceramic. Generally spark plugs are in located in areas of high temperature, and the grease is formulated to withstand the temperature range expected.



Another common use of dielectric grease is on the rubber mating surfaces or gaskets of multi-pin electrical connectors used in automotive and marine engines. The grease again acts as a lubricant and a sealant on the nonconductive mating surfaces of the connector. It is not recommended to be applied to the actual electrical conductive contacts of the connector. 



The grease to to help keep the moisture out and not let it into sensitive areas. The electrical contacts have to be clean and that is where most people get into a bind. The moisture in the air causes the corrosion. At that point all the grounds and or affected connections should come apart and be cleaned. After the connections are re-joined then the grease is applied more to the outside of the connection joints to prevent re-introduction of moisture. If you apply the grease on the connections themselves that will actually reduce the current flow of electricity. 



The Corrosion-X can be applied directly to directly any electric connection.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: 912 Ignition Question

Roger

  

 That is all great information. I wish I had know that before I put it on my golf cart.

  

 But.... Why would anyone put something on a aircraft contact that might end up insulating a connection? As I stated before petroleum jelly keeps out moisture, is cheep and doesn't create any risk.

  

 Rick Neilsen

 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

 On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

 

How to apply:

Die electric grease should be used as a moisture block not an electrical enhancer.

 Dielectric grease is a nonconductive grease. Because it is nonconductive it does not enhance the flow electrical current. Electrical conductors should not be coated with dielectric grease prior to being mated. However, dielectric grease is often applied to electrical connectors, particularly ones which contain rubber gaskets, as a way to provide a nonconductive lubricant and sealer for the rubber portions of the connector.

 

The widest use of dielectric grease is in high-voltage connections associated with spark plugs. The grease is applied to the rubber boot of the plug wire. This helps the rubber boot slide onto the ceramic insulator of the plug. The grease also acts to seal the rubber boot, while at the same time preventing the rubber from becoming stuck to the ceramic. Generally spark plugs are in located in areas of high temperature, and the grease is formulated to withstand the temperature range expected.

 

Another common use of dielectric grease is on the rubber mating surfaces or gaskets of multi-pin electrical connectors used in automotive and marine engines. The grease again acts as a lubricant and a sealant on the nonconductive mating surfaces of the connector. It is not recommended to be applied to the actual electrical conductive contacts of the connector.

 

The grease to to help keep the moisture out and not let it into sensitive areas. The electrical contacts have to be clean and that is where most people get into a bind. The moisture in the air causes the corrosion. At that point all the grounds and or affected connections should come apart and be cleaned. After the connections are re-joined then the grease is applied more to the outside of the connection joints to prevent re-introduction of moisture. If you apply the grease on the connections themselves that will actually reduce the current flow of electricity.

 

The Corrosion-X can be applied directly to directly any electric connection.



--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

Rotax Repair Center

520-574-1080



 

Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314100#314100



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[b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: 912 Ignition Question

At 10:41 AM 9/29/2010, Richard Neilsen wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Roger

  

 That is all great information. I wish I had know that before I put it on my golf cart.

  

 But.... Why would anyone put something on a aircraft contact that might end up insulating a connection? As I stated before petroleum jelly keeps out moisture, is cheep and doesn't create any risk. 	


 Petroleum jelly, like any petroleum product, can attack rubber parts, like the boot around the connector (depending on the rubber compound).  The silicone dielectric compound is presumably formulated to avoid this.



 -Dana

 --

  The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. - Thomas Jefferson    [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: 912 ignition question

Dana- Good point.  I have never used it on rubber, just bare metal or plastic connectors.

  

                                                   Bill Sullivan

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                    FS 447

 [quote][b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:28 am Post subject: 912 ignition question

I usually don' bother on aircraft connections but on domestic power connections I learned the hard way toapply a commercial "ointment" to circuit breaker split knife type connectors.  Almost had a serious fire with

dry connections.

BB

On 29, Sep 2010, at 1:54 PM, william sullivan wrote:

[quote]  Dana- Good point.  I have never used it on rubber, just bare metal or plastic connectors.

  

                                                   Bill Sullivan

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                    FS 447

  	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: 912 Ignition Question

But.... Why would anyone put something on a aircraft contact that  might end up insulating a connection?

  

  

 guess I am having a hard time with this  thread....  at least for me it has not been a problem..  on my old  boat trailer I  had to take apart, clean, and reassemble the light  connections a couple times a year.     after putting on the  dielectric gel I went many, many years and still did not have to clean up the  lights,,,    the dielectric gel kept all the water  and  corrosion off the joints.    after putting the dielectric on the  socket, then on the bulb,   and when they were assembled, there was a  physical connection between the metal components, and   the lights come  on.    every connection on the plane will have a physical  connection, where the metal will contact metal through the gel.   sure  where there is no metal contact, there will be no electron flowing from one  piece to another,,,,    but dry or Vaseline,,,  if there is  no metal contact,  no electrons will flow there either.

  

  

 now on lead acid batteries,, I have used Vaseline  for years after being told by an old mechanic that worked on the fire trucks at  the local AFB   but never considered it on other connections.  I  have liked the gel because it does not drip or run off when it gets  hot.

  

 boyd young

 mkiii

   [quote][b]

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: Re: 912 Ignition Question

DOW 4 Compound works for me.  It is an inert electrical insulating compound in the form of silicone grease that is designed to be compatible with metal, rubber and plastic parts.  It won't run off with heat either. 



One of Dow 4's best uses is for O-ring installation,  It lubricates and retards "rolling" and poor seating of O-rings during installation.



Dow 4 is available through Aircraft Spruce and other suppliers.  Please note that I have no connection with Dow or Aircraft Spruce; just as a very satisfied customer.



More info here:  http://www4.dowcorning.com/DataFiles/090007c8801e254b.pdf

_________________
Jerry King

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