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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 502 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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I would like to make a removable plate on the lower cowling to make it easier to put on and take off. I was wondering if it's worth it for those of you who have done it and if I should close the gap to the front gear leg or leave the same amount of space for cooling. Was this space used for the equation for cooling? Any pics out there for reference?
Thanks
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_________________ 40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
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kdbelue(at)charter.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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I've wondered if this slot allows in air opposing the cooling air coming down through the engine. Especially in climb, the nose is at an upward angle to the relative airflow, allowing the air to flow into the slot and oppose the engine cooling air. I've wanted to measure the CHT difference before and after closing the slot, but haven't yet....
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 13, 2010, at 12:50 PM, "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> wrote:
Quote: |
I would like to make a removable plate on the lower cowling to make it easier to put on and take off. I was wondering if it's worth it for those of you who have done it and if I should close the gap to the front gear leg or leave the same amount of space for cooling. Was this space used for the equation for cooling? Any pics out there for reference?
Thanks
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
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bcondrey
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 580
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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I extended the slot forward several inches, installed nutplates along the sides and then made an aluminum cover plate that essentially made the exposed part of the slot the same as stock. No need to mess around to do anything but surface mounting of the plate - it's only visible to those on their hands and knees under the cowl. Idea came from Alex D. (RVTraining.com) who also did this on his -10.
Bob
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Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 925
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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I did the same thing initially, it was to allow for ease of removal w/ 3 bld prop.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/slides/DSC04249.html (click forward for 8-9 pictures).
But when working on cooling issues I modified the original removable plate to one which included louvers, in the hope that it would allow for more exit air and better cooling.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07558.html (several pics)
As you can see from the pictures, I enclosed the slot with a cover aft of the landing gear leg.
RESULTS : I can't say as any of this made a significant difference in cooling.
Deems Davis
www.deemsrv10.com
On 9/13/2010 11:19 AM, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: [quote] [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> (bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com) I extended the slot forward several inches, installed nutplates along the sides and then made an aluminum cover plate that essentially made the exposed part of the slot the same as stock. No need to mess around to do anything but surface mounting of the plate - it's only visible to those on their hands and knees under the cowl. Idea came from Alex D. (RVTraining.com) who also did this on his -10. Bob --
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 502 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Lower cowling slot |
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Thanks for the replies. I made this today. Hopefully this makes it a little easier to take off the cowl. It is 7 more screws on the lower cowl but I will have the screwdriver out anyway.
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_________________ 40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
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SuperSTOL 60 hours |
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acsjohn
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as
others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem
to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.
My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F
Initial running was around 215-216 deg F
I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned
about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps
creeping up there.
A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of
the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower
cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?
John 40315
Phase 1 Fly off
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Albert Gardner
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 455 Location: Yuma, AZ
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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I fought high oil temps and installed a second oil cooler on the right side.
Final part of the solution was cowl flaps as these pics show. Before I put
the non-adjustable flaps in I had louvers in those locations but they didn't
do enough. Still have to be careful of extended ground operation in 100+
days though.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
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_________________ RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV |
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bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo. Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in hopes of avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to put some hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on climb out and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started to climb if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.
Bruce 151BJ
From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM
Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au (acs(at)acspropeller.com.au)>
I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as
others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem
to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.
My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F
Initial running was around 215-216 deg F
I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned
about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps
creeping up there.
A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of
the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower
cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?
John 40315
Phase 1 Fly off
--
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 1188 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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If the oil temp rises on leaning, you are leaning way too slowly.
During break-in you want to either be at least 100 ROP, or at least 50
LOP. 40-50 ROP will give hottest CHT and oil temps.
LOP fuel flow would be 13.1 for 75% power, so you could set for about
80% ROP and then lean directly to 13 gph and leave it there.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Bruce Johnson
<bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote] Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were
alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in hopes of
avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to put some
hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on climb out
and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started to climb
if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.
Bruce 151BJ
________________________________
From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM
Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot
I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as
others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem
to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.
My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F
Initial running was around 215-216 deg F
I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned
about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps
creeping up there.
A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of
the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower
cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?
John 40315
Phase 1 Fly off
--
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo. Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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Thanks, Deems suggested I fly it 25,map and 2500 RPM for the first few and not to spare the gas, at least until it stops using oil. I'll find out where it leans and run it 200' rich.
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 1:25:50 PM
Subject: Re: Lower cowling slot
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>
If the oil temp rises on leaning, you are leaning way too slowly.
During break-in you want to either be at least 100 ROP, or at least 50
LOP. 40-50 ROP will give hottest CHT and oil temps.
LOP fuel flow would be 13.1 for 75% power, so you could set for about
80% ROP and then lean directly to 13 gph and leave it there.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Bruce Johnson
<bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com (bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were
alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in hopes of
avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to put some
hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on climb out
and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started to climb
if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.
Bruce 151BJ
________________________________
From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au (acs(at)acspropeller.com.au)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM
Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au (acs(at)acspropeller.com.au)>
I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as
others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem
to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.
My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F
Initial running was around 215-216 deg F
I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned
about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps
creeping up there.
A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of
the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower
cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?
John 40315
Phase 1 Fly off
--
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1705 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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GAMI breaks in their big turbo-charged Continentals at 75-85% power,
LOP after initial climb, and completes full ring seating in less than 5
hours. But main consideration for break-in is to follow advice of
whomever is providing warranty, if any.
On 9/15/2010 2:37 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
[quote] Thanks, Deems suggested I fly it 25,map and 2500 RPM for the first few
and not to spare the gas, at least until it stops using oil. I'll find
out where it leans and run it 200' rich.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
*Sent:* Wed, September 15, 2010 1:25:50 PM
*Subject:* Re: Lower cowling slot
<mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com>>
If the oil temp rises on leaning, you are leaning way too slowly.
During break-in you want to either be at least 100 ROP, or at least 50
LOP. 40-50 ROP will give hottest CHT and oil temps.
LOP fuel flow would be 13.1 for 75% power, so you could set for about
80% ROP and then lean directly to 13 gph and leave it there.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Bruce Johnson
<bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com <mailto:bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
> Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were
> alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in
hopes of
> avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to
put some
> hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on
climb out
> and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started
to climb
> if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.
>
> Bruce 151BJ
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au
<mailto:acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM
> Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot
>
>
<acs(at)acspropeller.com.au <mailto:acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>>
>
> I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade
prop as
> others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it
doesn't seem
> to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.
> My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F
> Initial running was around 215-216 deg F
> I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too
concerned
> about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps
> creeping up there.
> A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in
front of
> the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the
lower
> cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?
>
> John 40315
> Phase 1 Fly off
>
>
> --
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 925
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:43 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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Albert,
THANKS for this idea, I'm in the process of fabricating something identical, only out of fiberglass.
How much of an improvement do you feel you got? CHT? Oil Temp?
Did you see any reduction in TAS?
THANKS
Deems
(Hope to see you (at) Copperstate!)
On 9/15/2010 3:20 AM, Albert Gardner wrote: [quote] [quote]I fought high oil temps and installed a second oil cooler on the right side. Final part of the solution was cowl flaps as these pics show. Before I put the non-adjustable flaps in I had louvers in those locations but they didn't do enough. Still have to be careful of extended ground operation in 100+ days though. Albert Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ --
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aerosport1
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 231
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Lower cowling slot |
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I just thought I would throw this out about oil temps. I have noticed over the past that some people that have had oil temp problems only had 4 cooling slots per side on either side of the nose gear cut out. There are suppose to be five slots. If you go back through this discussion you can see that Albert only had 4 slots cut. I have seen this before. This is a easy
thing to do and miss cutting out the front slots. Ask me how I know. I caught mine 2 days before the first flight. This could possibly be some
of the cooling problems for people with the standard Van's cowl.
FWIW
Geoff
N829GW
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_________________ Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033 |
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jcumins(at)jcis.net Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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Geoff
So would 6 slot be better for people that live in warm climates, and did you
install the grates a lot of people recommend or did you just open 6 slots in
the bottom of the cowl on each side.
John G. Cumins
President
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94534
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
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aerosport1
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 231
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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John I just have the standard 5 slots per the plans. Not sure what 6 slots
would do.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
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_________________ Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033 |
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jcumins(at)jcis.net Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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Geoff
Thanks
John G. Cumins
President
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94534
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 540 Location: Granbury Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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First we must all be talking apples and apples. Deems not lonly doesn't have a stock engine, but he lives in AZ. So all of us with cold air induction, and/or higher compression, and/or are living in a hot climate, need to do things different than Van's stock setup.
There's already a baffle out that inserts into the oil cooler box. I believe most of us with heating problems, including Deems, has already installed this. I did a number of things and I seem to have the heat issue managaeable. I have 8ea. 3" louvers on each side of the bottom cowl (Van's has 5ea. 4"), then I have 4 additional louvers on each bottom outside edge of the cowl. 4 of these are directly below the oil cooler. All of these louvers have a reverse scoop to allow the air to escape without having to compete with the relative wind. The last thing I did was something I just thought up. I used the 2nd 2" scat coming off the back of cyl #5 (both of my heater scats come off the back of #5), routed it over to a fabricated fiberglass "Y" and input it, along with the 4" from #6, into the oil cooler. #6 was my hottest cyl, and the difference between #5 and #6 was around 20 degrees. After installing the mod, the temperature difference is usually between 5 and 10 degrees and
on a hot Texas day, after going to lunch, on the way back at 3,000' I ran 3 120 degree different course headings at 25sq. My TAS calculated out to 199mph, and my oil temp never exceeded 197 degrees.
I attached a few pics of what I've done..... no engineer here, just trying stuff that I thought might work.
Don McDonald
Anyone going to LOE?
Funny,,, last year I didn't know what an LOE was!
--- On Wed, 9/29/10, aerosport1 <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> wrote:
Quote: |
From: aerosport1 <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Subject: Re: Lower cowling slot
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:03 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
I just thought I would throw this out about oil temps. I have noticed over the past that some people that have had oil temp problems only had 4 cooling slots per side on either side of the nose gear cut out. There are suppose to be five slots. If you go back through this discussion you can see that Albert only had 4 slots cut. I have seen this before. This is a easy
thing to do and miss cutting out the front slots. Ask me how I know. I caught mine 2 days before the first flight. This could possibly be some
of the cooling problems for people with the standard Van's cowl.
FWIW
Geoff
N829GW
--------
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying
40033
Read this topic online here:
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_________________ Don A. McDonald
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Albert Gardner
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 455 Location: Yuma, AZ
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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Now that several of us are working on this problem maybe a solution will appear.
that latest data I recorded was on a flight from Maderia, CA back to Yuma during cruise on Aug. 15th:
128 IAS, 160 TAS, 55f OAT, 207f Oil, 11,500', 2300 RPM. 19.6" MAP, 12.3 GPH ROP
#1 396, 387, 348, 345, 373, 369
#1 1339, 1289, 1323, 1246, 1284, 1324
The addition of the cowl flaps helped keep oil temps down on climb by about 5-10 degrees. Before I installed them I found it very difficult to keep oil temps down with high ground temps and any delay in TO. I had them go to 230-35 before I could drop the nose and get some airspeed if I had prolonged taxi time.
Now I'm going to replace the temp cowl flaps with glass ones that look a little better. However I don't see any way they can retract.
I am running an IO-540 with 10:1 and 1 Lightspeed at 315 HP. I have installed a second oil cooler on the right side using the same setup as the stock cooler on the left. With second cooler and the cowl flaps I aam reasonably happy. I have a buddy with some thermocouples and we plan on checking the oil temps going in and out of the 2 oil coolers which are connected in series.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 9:40 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lower cowling slot
Albert,
THANKS for this idea, I'm in the process of fabricating something identical, only out of fiberglass.
How much of an improvement do you feel you got? CHT? Oil Temp?
Did you see any reduction in TAS?
THANKS
Deems
(Hope to see you (at) Copperstate!)
On 9/15/2010 3:20 AM, Albert Gardner wrote: [quote]I fought high oil temps and installed a second oil cooler on the right side.Final part of the solution was cowl flaps as these pics show. Before I putthe non-adjustable flaps in I had louvers in those locations but they didn'tdo enough. Still have to be careful of extended ground operation in 100+days though.Albert GardnerN991RVYuma, AZ --
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_________________ RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV |
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 1188 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:43 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot |
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Well, things will run hotter ROP than LOP. I'd try LOP to get the CHT down, which should be good for 20-30 degrees by itself.
I assume you are using 2300 rpm looking for economy. At that altitude, the lower rpm limits power available and I believe you get less cooling. I would use at least 2500 rpm when above 10,000 and see if that helps cooling at all. With your compression, and the Lightspeed advancing the timing, using a lower rpm is like putting your car in overdrive with full throttle...it puts more of a load on everything than going the same speed at higher rpm.
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Albert Gardner <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Now that several of us are working on this problem maybe a solution will appear.
that latest data I recorded was on a flight from Maderia, CA back to Yuma during cruise on Aug. 15th:
128 IAS, 160 TAS, 55f OAT, 207f Oil, 11,500', 2300 RPM. 19.6" MAP, 12.3 GPH ROP
#1 396, 387, 348, 345, 373, 369
#1 1339, 1289, 1323, 1246, 1284, 1324
The addition of the cowl flaps helped keep oil temps down on climb by about 5-10 degrees. Before I installed them I found it very difficult to keep oil temps down with high ground temps and any delay in TO. I had them go to 230-35 before I could drop the nose and get some airspeed if I had prolonged taxi time.
Now I'm going to replace the temp cowl flaps with glass ones that look a little better. However I don't see any way they can retract.
[b]
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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