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dashwood
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 73
Location: sw ontario canada
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 Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: fuel pickups ? |
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I purchased my bird so do not have the benefit of seeing this part installed. i am wondering what the 701 wing tank fuel pickup looks like. and where it is normally. the drain is inboard at the rear. the fill neck is outboard and forward. the elec fuel gage tube runs about 4" back of front wall from the inboard face..
Is it just a hole/fitting in the side or a upright tube on top of the drain with holes so one piece of debris can't plug it instantly.
I had parts of the fill spout from the gas can i was using come off the other day. ( into the tank) it was the special spring loaded auto shutoff type. after much fishing i got it + spring attached out. but on the last flight this tank was not gravity feeding as before. with the tanks full as this one was i never had to worry about fuel flow. after the first time switching to this tank in flight the engine started to stumble. a quik check of the glass on the cabin fuel filter showed it empty. i flipped on the elec. pump and it filled up and ran smooth. several cycles like this showed some improvement. but not back to the gravity feed level of the other side.
could i have damaged anything in the tank fishing around with a heavy wire? there was about 6 L left in the tank while i was looking about. the borescope i was using didn't have enough strength or clarity to see the inboard side or back inboard corners. so i can't get a look at the pickup from here.
this was not as scary as it sound as i had lots of fuel in the other tank and was flight testing for this very problem before in was one.
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_________________
Ross Alexander: CH701 driver 912ul 788tt
It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money |
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rvickski(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: fuel pickups ? |
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Ross, the plans show a finger strainer fitting at the fuel outlet
which is at the back on the inboard side of the tank just above the
drain.
Roy
On Oct 12, 2010, at 10:07 PM, dashwood wrote:
| Quote: |
>
I purchased my bird so do not have the benefit of seeing this part
installed. i am wondering what the 701 wing tank fuel pickup looks
like. and where it is normally. the drain is inboard at the rear.
the fill neck is outboard and forward. the elec fuel gage tube runs
about 4" back of front wall from the inboard face..
Is it just a hole/fitting in the side or a upright tube on top of
the drain with holes so one piece of debris can't plug it instantly.
I had parts of the fill spout from the gas can i was using come off
the other day. ( into the tank) it was the special spring loaded
auto shutoff type. after much fishing i got it + spring attached
out. but on the last flight this tank was not gravity feeding as
before. with the tanks full as this one was i never had to worry
about fuel flow. after the first time switching to this tank in
flight the engine started to stumble. a quik check of the glass on
the cabin fuel filter showed it empty. i flipped on the elec. pump
and it filled up and ran smooth. several cycles like this showed
some improvement. but not back to the gravity feed level of the
other side.
could i have damaged anything in the tank fishing around with a
heavy wire? there was about 6 L left in the tank while i was looking
about. the borescope i was using didn't have enough strength or
clarity to see the inboard side or back inboard corners. so i can't
get a look at the pickup from here.
this was not as scary as it sound as i had lots of fuel in the other
tank and was flight testing for this very problem before in was one.
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315505#315505
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:24 am Post subject: Re: fuel pickups ? |
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See attached photo of right side tank, as viewed from cabin.
Kevin
do not archive
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_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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dashwood
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 73
Location: sw ontario canada
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dougsnash
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:47 am Post subject: fuel pickups ? |
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Ross, the fuel pickup in the tank is essentially a pipe thread bung welded to the sidewall of the tank near the bottom back corner. Standard proceedure is to thread a finger screen into this bung and then the barb fitting threads into the finger screen. If there is a finger screen in place (two inch long cylinder of metal screen) then the incident you are decribing should not have affected your fuel flow.
I don't remember if the 701 plans show the installation of a finger screen or not but I know the 750 does since I'm helping to build one of those now. If your plane doesn't have finger screens it would be a good idea to install them.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 C-GBQX
NW Ontario, Canada
Waiting on paperwork, ARGH!!!
Do not archive
--- On Tue, 10/12/10, dashwood <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: dashwood <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com>
|
| Quote: | I purchased my bird so do not have the benefit of seeing
this part installed. i am wondering what the 701 wing tank
fuel pickup looks like. and where it is normally. the drain
is inboard at the rear. the fill neck is outboard and
forward. the elec fuel gage tube runs about 4" back of front
wall from the inboard face..
Is it just a hole/fitting in the side or a upright
tube on top of the drain with holes so one piece of
debris can't plug it instantly.
I had parts of the fill spout from the gas can i was using
come off the other day. ( into the tank) it was the special
spring loaded auto shutoff type. after much fishing i
got it + spring attached out. but on the last flight
this tank was not gravity feeding as before. with the tanks
full as this one was i never had to worry about fuel
flow. after the first time switching to this tank in flight
the engine started to stumble. a quik check of the glass on
the cabin fuel filter showed it empty. i flipped on the
elec. pump and it filled up and ran smooth. several cycles
like this showed some improvement. but not back to the
gravity feed level of the other side.
could i have damaged anything in the tank fishing around
with a heavy wire? there was about 6 L left in the tank
while i was looking about. the borescope i was using didn't
have enough strength or clarity to see the inboard side or
back inboard corners. so i can't get a look at the pickup
from here.
this was not as scary as it sound as i had lots of fuel in
the other tank and was flight testing for this very problem
before in was one.
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
|
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bobkat
Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: fuel pickups ? |
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You'll have to get at the fuel pickup opening in the tank to get at it to
put on a new fuel strainer screen. Yes, the 701 plans call for one. Even
if it is a bit bent up I can't see this stopping most of the flow from the
tank. Possible, I suppose. Are you sure that you got all the debris out
of the tank?
It might be possible to borrow or rent one of those flexible borescopes that
most A & P have access to to have a good look at the tank from the inside.
Basically it's a a physician's flexible sigmoidoscope . I've seen the
short ones (sigmoidoscope) and long ones (colonoscope) in the larger
aircraft repair shops and have been intrigued by them, as they are EXACTLY
the same as what I use (used) on humans before I retired. You could get a
great eyeball close up with one of those if you can borrow or steal one for
about 3 1/2 minutes!
When I built my plane I screwed up and didn't put an inspection plate to
access the pickup tube (or fuel sending gauges) in my tanks, so if there
isn't one on your plane, the only way to access the tube would be to cut an
inspection hole either on the underside or above it on the top. But I'd
sure look at it from the inside with a scope if possible before doing major
surgery like that..
--------------------------------------------------
From: "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:44 AM
To: <zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: fuel pickups ?
| Quote: |
<dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Ross, the fuel pickup in the tank is essentially a pipe thread bung welded
to the sidewall of the tank near the bottom back corner. Standard
proceedure is to thread a finger screen into this bung and then the barb
fitting threads into the finger screen. If there is a finger screen in
place (two inch long cylinder of metal screen) then the incident you are
decribing should not have affected your fuel flow.
I don't remember if the 701 plans show the installation of a finger screen
or not but I know the 750 does since I'm helping to build one of those
now. If your plane doesn't have finger screens it would be a good idea to
install them.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 C-GBQX
NW Ontario, Canada
Waiting on paperwork, ARGH!!!
Do not archive
--- On Tue, 10/12/10, dashwood <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: dashwood <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com>
> I purchased my bird so do not have the benefit of seeing
> this part installed. i am wondering what the 701 wing tank
> fuel pickup looks like. and where it is normally. the drain
> is inboard at the rear. the fill neck is outboard and
> forward. the elec fuel gage tube runs about 4" back of front
> wall from the inboard face..
> Is it just a hole/fitting in the side or a upright
> tube on top of the drain with holes so one piece of
> debris can't plug it instantly.
> I had parts of the fill spout from the gas can i was using
> come off the other day. ( into the tank) it was the special
> spring loaded auto shutoff type. after much fishing i
> got it + spring attached out. but on the last flight
> this tank was not gravity feeding as before. with the tanks
> full as this one was i never had to worry about fuel
> flow. after the first time switching to this tank in flight
> the engine started to stumble. a quik check of the glass on
> the cabin fuel filter showed it empty. i flipped on the
> elec. pump and it filled up and ran smooth. several cycles
> like this showed some improvement. but not back to the
> gravity feed level of the other side.
> could i have damaged anything in the tank fishing around
> with a heavy wire? there was about 6 L left in the tank
> while i was looking about. the borescope i was using didn't
> have enough strength or clarity to see the inboard side or
> back inboard corners. so i can't get a look at the pickup
> from here.
> this was not as scary as it sound as i had lots of fuel in
> the other tank and was flight testing for this very problem
> before in was one.
>
> --------
> Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
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s.clive.richards(at)homec
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: fuel pickups ? |
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Ross
As you did not build the plane possibly your tank was
sloshed with some type of sealant which you have broken up causing it to
block strainer screen.
Normally looking in filler you will see clean aluminium walls & bottom of
tank
If it has been sealed you will probably need a new tank as I doubt you
will be able to clean it. possibly someone on list can advise.
Clive
---
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dashwood
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 73
Location: sw ontario canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: fuel pickups ? |
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OK . i borrowed an end on flexible scope. tank is clean and shiny inside. screen is good shape. removed gas-line to inner cabin filter blew out = no dirt, checked flow measured gal/min from both tanks and are equal both sides. fill cap was off at this point
then ame comes back to collect his scope. and points out a possible problem. i have covers on the forward curved vents to the gas caps when parked. these are removed preflight. but i didn't check to see the condition of these tubes. one has been pinched shut by some plyers what the f....
we had a lot of fuel stolen from the field last fall. a couple of weekends of stunt drivers on the grass at nights recently. now blatant tampering. easy fix but the preflights are very long now.
thanks for your help. I am thinking of doors for the hanger..odd that both things happen to come at the same time. kind of what put me off in the wrong dirrection.
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_________________
Ross Alexander: CH701 driver 912ul 788tt
It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money |
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:40 am Post subject: fuel pickups ? |
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Glad the tanks checked out ok.
Covers over the vent tubes are a great idea as it keeps out those pesky mud daubbers. I am wondering way, since you have to remove the fuel caps that have the vent tubes on them to fuel the plane, the pinched tube was not obvious ? Also, just some kids stealing fuel and raising hell at the airport probably don't have the intelligence to pinch off vent lines. That is downright criminal,, and a federal crime at that.... IMHO
Hope this all works out for the best.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
--------
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bobkat
Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:27 am Post subject: fuel pickups ? |
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WOW! Yeah, that doesn't sound like the usual kid's random vandalism or gas stealing! To an airplane it could even be an attempted bodily harm or murder, even! Any enemies, etc. I'd sure report it in a hurry! Good luck!
I wonder if one of those infra red trail cam things mounted surreptitiously in your hangar might be revealing!?!
From: n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 9:25 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: fuel pickups ?
Glad the tanks checked out ok.
Covers over the vent tubes are a great idea as it keeps out those pesky mud daubbers. I am wondering way, since you have to remove the fuel caps that have the vent tubes on them to fuel the plane, the pinched tube was not obvious ? Also, just some kids stealing fuel and raising hell at the airport probably don't have the intelligence to pinch off vent lines. That is downright criminal,, and a federal crime at that.... IMHO
Hope this all works out for the best.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "dashwood" <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: fuel pickups ?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:55:06 -0700
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "dashwood" <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com>
OK . i borrowed an end on flexible scope. tank is clean and shiny inside. screen is good shape. removed gas-line to inner cabin filter blew out = no dirt, checked flow measured gal/min from both tanks and are equal both sides. fill cap was off at this point
then ame comes back to collect his scope. and points out a possible problem. i have covers on the forward curved vents to the gas caps when parked. these are removed preflight. but i didn't check to see the condition of these tubes. one has been pinched shut by some plyers what the f....
we had a lot of fuel stolen from the field last fall. a couple of weekends of stunt drivers on the grass at nights recently. now blatant tampering. easy fix but the preflights are very long now.
thanks for your help. I am thinking of doors for the hanger..
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
Read this topic online here:
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I am getting more crud in the cabin fuel filter from muckin about inside this tank. from stirring up sediments or compromising this screen.