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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25704
Location: Livermore CA USA
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 Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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Dear Listers,
I took the cowling off the 'ol RV-8 today to have a look around at about the 112 TTSN hour mark. Most everything looked okay except for one major issue. The outside, lower back mount on the oil cooler is totally cracked off. The outside, lower front mount also has a long crack. At this point, the upper part of the mount seems alright. Also the inside mounts show no signs of cracks. The rear flange on the baffling has a small crack where the left rear part rivets to the back baffle that the oil cooler is bolted to. No oil leaks of any kind at this point. See attached pictures from my Cell Phone.
So what the heck? The engine shakes quite a bit on startup and shutdown (smooth as glass during normal ops), but this doesn't really seem like rotational shake damage. Although, it must be. Obviously I'm going to have to remove the oil cooler and have it repaired (that can be done, right?). But just "fixing" the mounting flanges isn't going to solve the "problem".
What are lister's opinion on what's going on here and what could be done to prevent it?
Interestingly, I noted that the #4 grounding cable that is attached to a bolt hole right underneath the oil cooler also had the lug sheered off. There is "service loop" on the cable, but #4 isn't really flexible so its not particular effective. Guess I need more. The point though, is, that it seems like the engine shook pretty hard. I don't see any other signs of "issues" related. The mounts and bolts seem solid and tight.
Thoughts?
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 112+ Hours TTSN!
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Matt Dralle
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:46 am Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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Are you sure the oil cooler is not hitting the engine mount? From the Picts, it sure looks close....
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 17, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Dear Listers,
I took the cowling off the 'ol RV-8 today to have a look around at about the 112 TTSN hour mark. Most everything looked okay except for one major issue. The outside, lower back mount on the oil cooler is totally cracked off. The outside, lower front mount also has a long crack. At this point, the upper part of the mount seems alright. Also the inside mounts show no signs of cracks. The rear flange on the baffling has a small crack where the left rear part rivets to the back baffle that the oil cooler is bolted to. No oil leaks of any kind at this point. See attached pictures from my Cell Phone.
So what the heck? The engine shakes quite a bit on startup and shutdown (smooth as glass during normal ops), but this doesn't really seem like rotational shake damage. Although, it must be. Obviously I'm going to have to remove the oil cooler and have it repaired (that can be done, right?). But just "fixing" the mounting flanges isn't going to solve the "problem".
What are lister's opinion on what's going on here and what could be done to prevent it?
Interestingly, I noted that the #4 grounding cable that is attached to a bolt hole right underneath the oil cooler also had the lug sheered off. There is "service loop" on the cable, but #4 isn't really flexible so its not particular effective. Guess I need more. The point though, is, that it seems like the engine shook pretty hard. I don't see any other signs of "issues" related. The mounts and bolts seem solid and tight.
Thoughts?
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 112+ Hours TTSN!
<2010.10.17 - RV-8 - IO-390 Oil Cooler Mount Cracking (1).jpg>
<2010.10.17 - RV-8 - IO-390 Oil Cooler Mount Cracking (2).jpg>
|
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martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:45 am Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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Mat, call me (at)920 619 6968. I experienced the same problem 2500 hours ago when I first flew my RV8 (serial no. 2). I can explain in detail how and what to do.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Dear Listers,
I took the cowling off the 'ol RV-8 today to have a look around at about the 112 TTSN hour mark. Most everything looked okay except for one major issue. The outside, lower back mount on the oil cooler is totally cracked off. The outside, lower front mount also has a long crack. At this point, the upper part of the mount seems alright. Also the inside mounts show no signs of cracks. The rear flange on the baffling has a small crack where the left rear part rivets to the back baffle that the oil cooler is bolted to. No oil leaks of any kind at this point. See attached pictures from my Cell Phone.
So what the heck? The engine shakes quite a bit on startup and shutdown (smooth as glass during normal ops), but this doesn't really seem like rotational shake damage. Although, it must be. Obviously I'm going to have to remove the oil cooler and have it repaired (that can be done, right?). But just "fixing" the mounting flanges isn't going to solve the "problem".
What are lister's opinion on what's going on here and what could be done to prevent it?
Interestingly, I noted that the #4 grounding cable that is attached to a bolt hole right underneath the oil cooler also had the lug sheered off. There is "service loop" on the cable, but #4 isn't really flexible so its not particular effective. Guess I need more. The point though, is, that it seems like the engine shook pretty hard. I don't see any other signs of "issues" related. The mounts and bolts seem solid and tight.
Thoughts?
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 112+ Hours TTSN! [b]
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
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rv8iator
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 145
Location: Newberg, OR
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:01 am Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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Dick...
I am about to install an oil cooler on my RV-8. I would be interested in your experiences and solutions to the cracking problem.
I am under the impression that this list is for the sharing and dissemination of experience and information,. If it is used as message board for offline communications then the benefits of this forum are lost.
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
Mat, call me (at)920 619 6968. I experienced the same problem 2500 hours ago when I first flew my RV8 (serial no. 2). I can explain in detail how and what to do.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:
Dear Listers,
I took the cowling off the 'ol RV-8 today to have a look around at about the 112 TTSN hour mark. Most everything looked okay except for one major issue. The outside, lower back mount on the oil cooler is totally cracked off. The outside, lower front mount also has a long crack. At this point, the upper part of the mount seems alright. Also the inside mounts show no signs of cracks. The rear flange on the baffling has a small crack where the left rear part rivets to the back baffle that the oil cooler is bolted to. No oil leaks of any kind at this point. See attached pictures from my Cell Phone.
So what the heck? The engine shakes quite a bit on startup and shutdown (smooth as glass during normal ops), but this doesn't really seem like rotational shake damage. Although, it must be. Obviously I'm going to have to remove the oil cooler and have it repaired (that can be done, right?). But just "fixing" the mounting flanges isn't going to solve the "problem".
What are lister's opinion on what's going on here and what could be done to prevent it?
Interestingly, I noted that the #4 grounding cable that is attached to a bolt hole right underneath the oil cooler also had the lug sheered off. There is "service loop" on the cable, but #4 isn't really flexible so its not particular effective. Guess I need more. The point though, is, that it seems like the engine shook pretty hard. I don't see any other signs of "issues" related. The mounts and bolts seem solid and tight.
Thoughts?
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 112+ Hours TTSN!
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
|
_________________
C. Stone (RV8iator) |
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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Matt,
Some thoughts;
- As others have pointed out, the moment arm of a cantilevered baffle
mounted oil cooler is significant. If you really want to mount it there you
will need to add some hefty baffle structural support. I have my oil cooler
on the firewall in the 8A (600 hrs) and will do so in the 10 as well (but
not the poor Van's design for the 10). The firewall mount also simplifies
the oil cooler air butterfly valve install.
- I can't tell from the photos which is oil in and oil out of the cooler.
For any cooler where one inlet is higher than the other, always put the
input on the bottom and output on the top. This helps eliminate air getting
trapped in the cooler.
- I recommend grounding your engine at the starter (most starters have a
grounding lug). Remember that all the current you are pumping into the
starter has to get back to the battery. A ground path through the engine is
less than optimal. While you are at it run a short #6 jumper from the
starter ground lug to the alternator mounting bolt as well.
Carl Froehlich
--
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Larry Bowen
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 802
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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What don't you like about the RV-10 cooler design? I'm planning on using it for my RV-7. It's going to be a tight fit, but doable. --
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV8-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>
Matt,
Some thoughts;
- As others have pointed out, the moment arm of a cantilevered baffle
mounted oil cooler is significant. If you really want to mount it there you
will need to add some hefty baffle structural support. I have my oil cooler
on the firewall in the 8A (600 hrs) and will do so in the 10 as well (but
not the poor Van's design for the 10). The firewall mount also simplifies
the oil cooler air butterfly valve install.
- I can't tell from the photos which is oil in and oil out of the cooler.
For any cooler where one inlet is higher than the other, always put the
input on the bottom and output on the top. This helps eliminate air getting
trapped in the cooler.
- I recommend grounding your engine at the starter (most starters have a
grounding lug). Remember that all the current you are pumping into the
starter has to get back to the battery. A ground path through the engine is
less than optimal. While you are at it run a short #6 jumper from the
starter ground lug to the alternator mounting bolt as well.
Carl Froehlich
--
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
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_________________
Larry Bowen
RV-8 SOLD,
RV-7QB in progress... |
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bjudge(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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I posted this in response on the RV list, it is one way to avoid the cracking, figured it was worth posting here:
Matt, I had the same type of cracking on my oil cooler after about 60 hrs. I got rid of my standard oil cooler and used a setrab 10 row with swivel angle fittings.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_823&action=product
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_3397&action=product
It comes with straight in AN fittings but I swapped them out with one 90 and one 45 because that seemed to be the direction that the lines wanted to enter the cooler. I was able to used the standard lines and just make some mods to accept the setrab cooler. I also beefed up the bracing around the cooler with 0.125 angle rather than whatever is standard.
The cooler is about 1/3 the size of standard and so there is much less weight hanging on the baffles. The firewall solution works fine but I really didn't want to have the hoses "working" with the vibrations/shaking of the engine.
550 hrs now and no cracking and my oil temps never get above 200F.
The best part is that I was able to sell the standard oil cooler on ebay for enough to cover the cost of the new cooler and fittings.
Bill Judge
N84WJ RV-8, 550 hrs
rv-8.blogspot.com
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
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mark.merrell(at)ymail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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You really do want your oil temp to get above 212 degrees to boil out the water & condensation that builds up.
Mark Merrell
RV-8 Empennage
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking...
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 9:38 AM
I posted this in response on the RV list, it is one way to avoid the cracking, figured it was worth posting here:
Matt, I had the same type of cracking on my oil cooler after about 60 hrs. I got rid of my standard oil cooler and used a setrab 10 row with swivel angle fittings.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_823&action=product
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_3397&action=product
It comes with straight in AN fittings but I swapped them out with one 90 and one 45 because that seemed to be the direction that the lines wanted to enter the cooler. I was able to used the standard lines and just make some mods to accept the setrab cooler. I also beefed up the bracing around the cooler with 0.125 angle rather than whatever is standard.
The cooler is about 1/3 the size of standard and so there is much less weight hanging on the baffles. The firewall solution works fine but I really didn't want to have the hoses "working" with the vibrations/shaking of the engine.
550 hrs now and no cracking and my oil temps never get above 200F.
The best part is that I was able to sell the standard oil cooler on ebay for enough to cover the cost of the new cooler and fittings.
Bill Judge
N84WJ RV-8, 550 hrs
rv-8.blogspot.com
| Quote: |
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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bell
Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:56 am Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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The oil temp probe is usually downstream of the cooler and measures the temp of the oil right before it enters the galleries..thats why we are putting an additional sensor in one of the sump drains…even then it will be cooler than the oil leaving the rockers..so…the oil temp gauge doesn’t really tell you the temp of the oil circulating in the engine..i bet the engineers that designed the coolers have some charts that would enable you to estimate the inlet oil temp for a given output temp…just some ramblings
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Merrell
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:03 AM
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking...
You really do want your oil temp to get above 212 degrees to boil out the water & condensation that builds up.
Mark Merrell
RV-8 Empennage
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking...
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 9:38 AM
I posted this in response on the RV list, it is one way to avoid the cracking, figured it was worth posting here:
Matt,
I had the same type of cracking on my oil cooler after about 60 hrs. I got rid of my standard oil cooler and used a setrab 10 row with swivel angle fittings.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_823&action=product
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_3397&action=product
It comes with straight in AN fittings but I swapped them out with one 90 and one 45 because that seemed to be the direction that the lines wanted to enter the cooler. I was able to used the standard lines and just make some mods to accept the setrab cooler. I also beefed up the bracing around the cooler with 0.125 angle rather than whatever is standard.
The cooler is about 1/3 the size of standard and so there is much less weight hanging on the baffles. The firewall solution works fine but I really didn't want to have the hoses "working" with the vibrations/shaking of the engine.
550 hrs now and no cracking and my oil temps never get above 200F.
The best part is that I was able to sell the standard oil cooler on ebay for enough to cover the cost of the new cooler and fittings.
Bill Judge
N84WJ RV-8, 550 hrs
rv-8.blogspot.com
| Quote: | | =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
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0123456789 | Quote: | | =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
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4
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
01:34:00
[quote][b]
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flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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That's what I've also believed, but just read in the Lyc 0-360 book that the desired "oil inlet temp" - is between 180F and 160F depending on Ambient Air Temp . . . They never mention the 'desirably' to go above 212F?
From: Glenn Bell (glennbell(at)cablelynx.com)
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:48 AM
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com (rv8-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Re: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking...
The oil temp probe is usually downstream of the cooler and measures the temp of the oil right before it enters the galleries..thats why we are putting an additional sensor in one of the sump drains…even then it will be cooler than the oil leaving the rockers..so…the oil temp gauge doesn’t really tell you the temp of the oil circulating in the engine..i bet the engineers that designed the coolers have some charts that would enable you to estimate the inlet oil temp for a given output temp…just some ramblings
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Merrell
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:03 AM
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking...
You really do want your oil temp to get above 212 degrees to boil out the water & condensation that builds up.
Mark Merrell
RV-8 Empennage
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking...
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 9:38 AM
I posted this in response on the RV list, it is one way to avoid the cracking, figured it was worth posting here:
Matt,
I had the same type of cracking on my oil cooler after about 60 hrs. I got rid of my standard oil cooler and used a setrab 10 row with swivel angle fittings.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_823&action=product
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=276,587_3397&action=product
It comes with straight in AN fittings but I swapped them out with one 90 and one 45 because that seemed to be the direction that the lines wanted to enter the cooler. I was able to used the standard lines and just make some mods to accept the setrab cooler. I also beefed up the bracing around the cooler with 0.125 angle rather than whatever is standard.
The cooler is about 1/3 the size of standard and so there is much less weight hanging on the baffles. The firewall solution works fine but I really didn't want to have the hoses "working" with the vibrations/shaking of the engine.
550 hrs now and no cracking and my oil temps never get above 200F.
The best part is that I was able to sell the standard oil cooler on ebay for enough to cover the cost of the new cooler and fittings.
Bill Judge
N84WJ RV-8, 550 hrs
rv-8.blogspot.com
| Quote: | | =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
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4
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
01:34:00
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5 [quote][b]
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martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: Oil Cooler Mount Cracking... |
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Chris,
The reason for the recommendation for a call is because the answer would require a very long and detailed post. Call me. 920 619 6968 (cell).
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net (rv8iator(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV8-List message posted by: Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net (rv8iator(at)earthlink.net)>
Dick...
I am about to install an oil cooler on my RV-8. I would be interested in your experiences and solutions to the cracking problem.
I am under the impression that this list is for the sharing and dissemination of experience and information,. If it is used as message board for offline communications then the benefits of this forum are lost.
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
Mat, call me (at)920 619 6968. I experienced the same problem 2500 hours ago when I first flew my RV8 (serial no. 2). I can explain in detail how and what to do.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
Dear Listers,
I took the cowling off the 'ol RV-8 today to have a look around at about the 112 TTSN hour mark. Most everything looked okay except for one major issue. The outside, lower back mount on the oil cooler is totally cracked off. The outside, lower front mount also has a long crack. At this point, the upper part of the mount seems alright. Also the inside mounts show no signs of cracks. The rear flange on the baffling has a small crack where the left rear part rivets to the back baffle that the oil cooler is bolted to. No oil leaks of any kind at this point. See attached pictures from my Cell Phone.
So what the heck? The engine shakes quite a bit on startup and shutdown (smooth as glass during normal ops), but this doesn't really seem like rotational shake damage. Although, it must be. Obviously I'm going to have to remove the oil cooler and have it repaired (that can be done, right?). But just "fixing" the mounting flanges isn't going to solve the "problem".
What are lister's opinion on what's going on here and what could be done to prevent it?
Interestingly, I noted that the #4 grounding cable that is attached to a bolt hole right underneath the oil cooler also had the lug sheered off. There is "service loop" on the cable, but #4 isn't really flexible so its not particular effective. Guess I need more. The point though, is, that it seems like the engine shook pretty hard. I don't see any other signs of "issues" related. The mounts and bolts seem solid and tight.
Thoughts?
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
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Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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