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cjhukill(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
[quote][b]
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aarongleixner(at)sbcgloba
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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Chris,
I installed the Van's latch to plans, and have about 80 hours with it. Its not hard to open from inside or outside, and the latch allows the door to stay open a little on hot days.
The only concern I have to date is recently I got a little agressive on the runup with just the safety latch engaged, and the door flew open. With this happening on a ground runup with just the prop blast, I have serious doubts it would hold if the main latch failed in flight. I suspect the door would open just enough for the wind to grab it, flex it, and tear it off.
Now its possible that my install is not exactly like others, but after that incident, I now assume the safety latch will be ineffective. I might start to feel a little better if there are a few real examples of this latch working in flight.
If I had to do it again, I would bite the bullet and buy one of the 3rd party options being offered. Their secondary benefits are that there is just one handle to move in an emergency, and they suck the door tight prior to engaging the pins.
Just my 2 cents.
Aaron
From: Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:55:06 PM
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
[quote]www.=======================
[b]
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Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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Aaron,
Great feedback! exactly the type of thing that makes this forum so valuable.
Deems
On 11/4/2010 6:49 PM, Aaron Gleixner wrote: [quote] Chris,
I installed the Van's latch to plans, and have about 80 hours with it. Its not hard to open from inside or outside, and the latch allows the door to stay open a little on hot days.
The only concern I have to date is recently I got a little agressive on the runup with just the safety latch engaged, and the door flew open. With this happening on a ground runup with just the prop blast, I have serious doubts it would hold if the main latch failed in flight. I suspect the door would open just enough for the wind to grab it, flex it, and tear it off.
Now its possible that my install is not exactly like others, but after that incident, I now assume the safety latch will be ineffective. I might start to feel a little better if there are a few real examples of this latch working in flight.
If I had to do it again, I would bite the bullet and buy one of the 3rd party options being offered. Their secondary benefits are that there is just one handle to move in an emergency, and they suck the door tight prior to engaging the pins.
Just my 2 cents.
Aaron
[b]
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dmaib(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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Thanks for this info Aaron. I really appreciate hearing some "real world" experience.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Nov 4, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Aaron Gleixner wrote:
Chris,
I installed the Van's latch to plans, and have about 80 hours with it. Its not hard to open from inside or outside, and the latch allows the door to stay open a little on hot days.
The only concern I have to date is recently I got a little agressive on the runup with just the safety latch engaged, and the door flew open. With this happening on a ground runup with just the prop blast, I have serious doubts it would hold if the main latch failed in flight. I suspect the door would open just enough for the wind to grab it, flex it, and tear it off.
Now its possible that my install is not exactly like others, but after that incident, I now assume the safety latch will be ineffective. I might start to feel a little better if there are a few real examples of this latch working in flight.
If I had to do it again, I would bite the bullet and buy one of the 3rd party options being offered. Their secondary benefits are that there is just one handle to move in an emergency, and they suck the door tight prior to engaging the pins.
Just my 2 cents.
Aaron
From: Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net (cjhukill(at)cox.net)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:55:06 PM
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
[/url]
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[url=http://www.buildersbooks.com/] | Quote: |
color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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capsteve(at)iflyrv10.com
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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HI chris,
I have about 20 made up solid aluminum, just haven’t set it up on the website yet. 20 bucks shipped for the pair.(con-us)
it’s made to drop in. I didn’t think there was going to be much demand, but I made them anyway. I’ve also been testing a few (many) automated
latch ideas and think I have a solution that will drop into the vans third latch cutout, won’t have to cut the door rod, and adds very little resistance.
it’s a slow process, (honestly, I took a break to finish the rear seat upholstery) but I promised many builders a less expensive alternative.
Steve
iflyrv10.com
From: Chris Hukill (cjhukill(at)cox.net)
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:55 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
[quote]
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:45 am Post subject: door safety latch |
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This makes me glad I installed Sean’s latch. Sorry to hear about you incident, but as other’s have already stated, this will help others from experiencing the same situation.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gleixner
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:50 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: door safety latch
Chris,
I installed the Van's latch to plans, and have about 80 hours with it. Its not hard to open from inside or outside, and the latch allows the door to stay open a little on hot days.
The only concern I have to date is recently I got a little agressive on the runup with just the safety latch engaged, and the door flew open. With this happening on a ground runup with just the prop blast, I have serious doubts it would hold if the main latch failed in flight. I suspect the door would open just enough for the wind to grab it, flex it, and tear it off.
Now its possible that my install is not exactly like others, but after that incident, I now assume the safety latch will be ineffective. I might start to feel a little better if there are a few real examples of this latch working in flight.
If I had to do it again, I would bite the bullet and buy one of the 3rd party options being offered. Their secondary benefits are that there is just one handle to move in an emergency, and they suck the door tight prior to engaging the pins.
Just my 2 cents.
Aaron
From: Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:55:06 PM
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
012345678901234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler |
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mregoan(at)hispeed.ch
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:45 am Post subject: door safety latch |
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Aaron,
Good feedback. Can I ask if you reported the incident to Van’s?
Cheers,
Gordon Anderson
#41015, starting tailcone, Lederhosenland
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gleixner
Sent: 05 November 2010 02:50
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: door safety latch
Chris,
I installed the Van's latch to plans, and have about 80 hours with it. Its not hard to open from inside or outside, and the latch allows the door to stay open a little on hot days.
The only concern I have to date is recently I got a little agressive on the runup with just the safety latch engaged, and the door flew open. With this happening on a ground runup with just the prop blast, I have serious doubts it would hold if the main latch failed in flight. I suspect the door would open just enough for the wind to grab it, flex it, and tear it off.
Now its possible that my install is not exactly like others, but after that incident, I now assume the safety latch will be ineffective. I might start to feel a little better if there are a few real examples of this latch working in flight.
If I had to do it again, I would bite the bullet and buy one of the 3rd party options being offered. Their secondary benefits are that there is just one handle to move in an emergency, and they suck the door tight prior to engaging the pins.
Just my 2 cents.
Aaron
From: Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:55:06 PM
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
01234567890123456789
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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My guess if one contacted Vans they will state that it "was the first they have heard of it"
Personally, I skipped the latch as I saw it as being worthless from the first look. The latch assumes that the doors are going straight out/up which is not the case. Grab the door and move it fore and aft and notice the amount of movement, that is what happens when the door flies off it goes aft than off, that is why the 3rd party concepts work well, they latch the door down and dont allow the door to move out or back.
Anyone with the Vans latch will experience the same issue, better to have nothing than false hope.
Pascal
Nov 6, 2010 02:58:51 AM, rv10-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
Aaron,
Good feedback. Can I ask if you reported the incident to Van’s?
Cheers,
Gordon Anderson
#41015, starting tailcone, Lederhosenland
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gleixner
Sent: 05 November 2010 02:50
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: door safety latch
Chris,
I installed the Van's latch to plans, and have about 80 hours with it. Its not hard to open from inside or outside, and the latch allows the door to stay open a little on hot days.
The only concern I have to date is recently I got a little agressive on the runup with just the safety latch engaged, and the door flew open. With this happening on a ground runup with just the prop blast, I have serious doubts it would hold if the main latch failed in flight. I suspect the door would open just enough for the wind to grab it, flex it, and tear it off.
Now its possible that my install is not exactly like others, but after that incident, I now assume the safety latch will be ineffective. I might start to feel a little better if there are a few real examples of this latch working in flight.
If I had to do it again, I would bite the bullet and buy one of the 3rd party options being offered. Their secondary benefits are that there is just one handle to move in an emergency, and they suck the door tight prior to engaging the pins.
Just my 2 cents.
Aaron
From: Chris Hukill
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:55:06 PM
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
<b>www.=======================</b> www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com<b></b>
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:38 am Post subject: door safety latch |
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Chris
I have retrofitted Sean's (Planearound.com) safety latch (90 degree kit). I also have the IFLYRV10 door handle.
I preferred Sean's latch over Van's as it eliminates an extra step to open the door from the outside. It also does't look like a Rube Golberg setup. Steve's IFYRV10.com handles do have a small button that is used to disengage the interior door lock. It is just not located on the handle as it is on the Van's handle.
Sean's cam is great as there is no way the door can be incorrectly locked if the cam is engaged. Physcally it would mean the door is hugely warped - somthing that would not escape notice. I m not even sure sure if this physically possible. I'll check this out when I am at the hanger today.
Whatever tech you use, be sure to work you mechanism component by component to see where "stiffness" occurs. Friction in the doors is additive so it is best to get each section moving easily. I found that even a slight misalignment on the door pin travel can cause a great deal of friction in the door side delrin blocks. I also used white grease to eliminate most of the friction in the gear / rack mechanism.
I can't speak for the "stock handles" as I never installed them, but the IFLYRV10 mechanism doesn't seem to like a lot of internal frction. That being said, the addition of the Planearound safety lock into the mix did not seem to impact how easily the overall door mechanism works. I ctually think it introduced a bit of "forgiveness" in the long rear door pin as it reduces the pin length and makes alignment a bit easier.
All in all, I am very happy with Sean's and Steve's products.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill
Sent: November-04-10 6:55 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
[quote]
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
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aarongleixner(at)sbcgloba
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: door safety latch |
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I did not, but probably should. Van's is great, but in the past I've reported items like this after seeing it on many other planes at Osh, only to be told its the first they are hearing of it. When I search one of these sites, its usually a well documented problem.
Aaron
From: Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 5:39:14 AM
Subject: RE: door safety latch
Aaron,
Good feedback. Can I ask if you reported the incident to Van’s?
Cheers,
Gordon Anderson
#41015, starting tailcone, Lederhosenland
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gleixner
Sent: 05 November 2010 02:50
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: door safety latch
Chris,
I installed the Van's latch to plans, and have about 80 hours with it. Its not hard to open from inside or outside, and the latch allows the door to stay open a little on hot days.
The only concern I have to date is recently I got a little agressive on the runup with just the safety latch engaged, and the door flew open. With this happening on a ground runup with just the prop blast, I have serious doubts it would hold if the main latch failed in flight. I suspect the door would open just enough for the wind to grab it, flex it, and tear it off.
Now its possible that my install is not exactly like others, but after that incident, I now assume the safety latch will be ineffective. I might start to feel a little better if there are a few real examples of this latch working in flight.
If I had to do it again, I would bite the bullet and buy one of the 3rd party options being offered. Their secondary benefits are that there is just one handle to move in an emergency, and they suck the door tight prior to engaging the pins.
Just my 2 cents.
Aaron
From: Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:55:06 PM
Subject: door safety latch
Has anyone come up with a cool CNC machined replacement for the C1018 safety latch that Vans provides for the door service bulletin?
Can I buy a couple?
I also wonder why the latch is installed in the center of the door, instead of the front, near the handle. Maybe the idea is that the rear seat pax can reach it there, with an unconscious co-pilot after a wreck. But the forward location would allow the front seater to reach it without turning or reaching behind them during normal ops or an emergency.
Also the fact that it is forward would maybe provide more security for it's designed function, that is keeping the door from opening and flying off the airplane. If the door is held in the center, due to the failure of the primary latches, it could flex quite a bit, and maybe catch the wind enough to tear off the airplane. If the safety latch is forward, then the small partial opening in the front should not allow the air to get behind the door, flex it, and create havoc.
Anyone deviate from the plans? I'm getting ready to cut some holes, and would like a discussion on this.
Doors are kicking my #!**?
Chris Hukill
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