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John Cooley
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Lucedale, Ms.
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 Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: Hoerner wing tip design? |
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Hello Folks,
Haven't posted much in the past few years but keep a eye on the list and read almost daily. I have a MK 3 Classic that I bought from Jeremy Casey about 6 years ago and worked on for awhile then sort of lost interest. This summer I have discovered 4 or 5 neighbors within 10 miles or so that are flying that wasn't a few years ago. I have probably put more hours on my FS II flying with them this summer than I have put on it the past 3 years combined. This and the fact that I ran into James Tripp at Ronnie Smith's fly-in has rekindled my desire to finish the Mark 3. James has a beautiful MK-3 that he has just finished. He had been flying a Firestar like myself. He has also installed the "Hauck Special" landing gear as I have done to the MK 3 I have in progress.
Now to my question to the group. I have been doing some reading on Hoerner wing tips and would like to hear some comments or thoughts about installing these on the MK 3 Classic. I know that TNK makes some for the Xtra out of fiberglass but was thinking of building my own out of aluminum tubing as some other Kolb copy cat kit builder has done. Would this be worth the effort on the Kolb wing? Would the span need to be reduced any due to the effect the Hoerner tips have of lengthening the effective span? Here is some information on the web from another well known STOL aircraft sight about these tips:
"For a long time, I’ve said that Hoerner wing tips should be used on most light aircraft designs, since they increase the effective wing span from 8" to over one foot without having to carry any additional weight: As we all know, there is low pressure on top of the wing, and higher pressure on the bottom of the wing, with the pressure difference creating the lift that allows us to fly. Toward the tip of the wing, the high pressure ‘feels’ that there is less pressure on the top of the wing (just around the tip), and wants to go there to equalize the pressure, thus creating a secondary flow out toward the tip of the wing. This secondary outward flow generates a vortex (a circular motion) behind the wing."
Any and all information or thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks,
John Cooley
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John Cooley |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: Hoerner wing tip design? |
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John, People say a lot of things, with and without a clue as to what they
are talking about. Hoerner tips on most light planes? It would depend on the
mission the plane is flying. Hoerner tips, properly implemented, work in the
low speed regime where they help with induced drag at high lift
coefficients. Great for crop dusters, STOL, and like missions, not so great
if you spend your time in cruise flight. Good on a Kolb? Maybe, if you have
a comprehensive plan to clean up drag sources of all kinds. Personally, I
think you could do as much or more by cleaning up and sealing the wing roots
to get rid of that unwanted extra set of wing tips. That hurts performance
in all regimes so it's probably more bang for the buck, but you won't know
until you do the work and document it.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:31 AM, John Cooley <johnc(at)datasync.com> wrote:
[quote]
Hello Folks,
Haven't posted much in the past few years but keep a eye on the list and
read almost daily. I have a MK 3 Classic that I bought from Jeremy Casey
about 6 years ago and worked on for awhile then sort of lost interest. This
summer I have discovered 4 or 5 neighbors within 10 miles or so that are
flying that wasn't a few years ago. I have probably put more hours on my FS
II flying with them this summer than I have put on it the past 3 years
combined. This and the fact that I ran into James Tripp at Ronnie Smith's
fly-in has rekindled my desire to finish the Mark 3. James has a beautiful
MK-3 that he has just finished. He had been flying a Firestar like myself
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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Eugene Zimmerman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:47 pm Post subject: Hoerner wing tip design? |
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John C,
I like the way my plane flies with its Hoerner type wing tip modifications. It is very good at slow flight and very stable and controllable even in a deep stall mush.
But would I do it all again, or recommend it for others? Probably not. The plans built Kolb is already very good at all that, and any improvement is merely a tweek of what is already every stock Kolb plane's strong point.
On Nov 19, 2010, at 12:31 PM, John Cooley wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com (johnc(at)datasync.com)>
Hello Folks,
Haven't posted much in the past few years but keep a eye on the list and read almost daily. I have a MK 3 Classic that I bought from Jeremy Casey about 6 years ago and worked on for awhile then sort of lost interest. This summer I have discovered 4 or 5 neighbors within 10 miles or so that are flying that wasn't a few years ago. I have probably put more hours on my FS II flying with them this summer than I have put on it the past 3 years combined. This and the fact that I ran into James Tripp at Ronnie Smith's fly-in has rekindled my desire to finish the Mark 3. James has a beautiful MK-3 that he has just finished. He had been flying a Firestar like myself. He has also installed the "Hauck Special" landing gear as I have done to the MK 3 I have in progress.
Now to my question to the group. I have been doing some reading on Hoerner wing tips and would like to hear some comments or thoughts about installing these on the MK 3 Classic. I know that TNK makes some for the Xtra out of fiberglass but was thinking of building my own out of aluminum tubing as some other Kolb copy cat kit builder has done. Would this be worth the effort on the Kolb wing? Would the span need to be reduced any due to the effect the Hoerner tips have of lengthening the effective span? Here is some information on the web from another well known STOL aircraft sight about these tips:
"For a long time, I’ve said that Hoerner wing tips should be used on most light aircraft designs, since they increase the effective wing span from 8" to over one foot without having to carry any additional weight: As we all know, there is low pressure on top of the wing, and higher pressure on the bottom of the wing, with the pressure difference creating the lift that allows us to fly. Toward the tip of the wing, the high pressure ‘feels’ that there is less pressure on the top of the wing (just around the tip), and wants to go there to equalize the pressure, thus creating a secondary flow out toward the tip of the wing. This secondary outward flow generates a vortex (a circular motion) behind the wing."
Any and all information or thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks,
John Cooley
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| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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