Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Seat Track

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> TeamGrumman-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: Seat Track

Is there a better solution for the seat tracks in the Grummans? The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is terrible. One side locks and the other doesn’t sometimes requiring me to monkey with it to get both sides to lock. Any ideas?  

   

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR   

   

       [quote][b]

JHOSLER(at)epri.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: Seat Track

I disassembled the entire seat locking mechanism, re-lubricated and reassembled (after 30 year of operation).  Works like new now.  

   

John  

         

  

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Quinn

 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:00 PM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Seat Track  

  

   

Is there a better solution for the seat tracks in the Grummans? The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is terrible. One side locks and the other doesn’t sometimes requiring me to monkey with it to get both sides to lock. Any ideas?  

   

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR   

   

      [quote][b]

ArjayS(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject: Seat Track

Off the record....

 The tracks all stink. I machined a special part for myself. Works great but it's not something we could sell. If the group were bigger or could afford the part (they can't) I'd go into production. It will cost us about $125,000 to get a PMA and then the cost of manufacture. That means we would need to sell 200 sets a $700/set to break even. I really don't see that happening  [quote][b]

andy747(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: Seat Track

Re:  seat track

  

 If the part is not available, it is my impression  that the owner can make the part for his airplane, out of similar material and  of similar design.  I also believe that if the owner draws a picture  of the part and provided a description, he does not have to actually make the  part....

  

 That being the case, you could provide a  sketch/picture of what you have done, the owner could "improve on it" for  his specific airframe and you could fabricate it to his specs for $100/200 or ?  and all parties are served.

  

 I may have over simplified the process but I would  be comfortable with that scenario for my airplane,

  

 Andy Thomas

  

 [quote]   ---

bdsmith(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: Seat Track

 	  Quote: 	
		  The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is 

terrible. One side locks and the other 

doesnâ€™t sometimes requiring me to monkey 

with it to get both sides to lock. Any ideas?


	


We have the same problem.  I can't reliably get it to lock -- I just have to wait for it to do it on its own.



Can you give more details on where and what you "monkey" to get it to lock?

ArjayS(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: Seat Track

Hi Andy

 First, it's not in any way similar. I designed a double latch system, so it's impossible to slip. The adjustor bar pulls up and then out and retracts in the same sequence. Second, the part is machined out os aluminum stock. Different materials and different process. Third, we are an engineering company. If I provided any part of the design even for free, we're liable for it and without any compensation to pay the lawyers.

 Other than that stuff....No problem

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Re:  seat track

   

  If the part is not available, it is my impression that the owner can make the part for his airplane, out of similar material and of similar design.  I also believe that if the owner draws a picture of the part and provided a description, he does not have to actually make the part....

   

  That being the case, you could provide a sketch/picture of what you have done, the owner could "improve on it" for his specific airframe and you could fabricate it to his specs for $100/200 or ? and all parties are served.

   

  I may have over simplified the process but I would be comfortable with that scenario for my airplane,

   

  Andy Thomas

 

 	


 

   [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject: Seat Track

Of course the seat track fairy could visit ....... after all, it's     Christmas!!!     

     Linn

     

     On 12/1/2010 5:44 PM, Andy wrote:     [quote]                            Re:  seat track

        

       If the part is not available, it           is my impression that the owner can make the part for his           airplane, out of similar material and of similar design.  I           also believe that if the owner draws a picture of the part and           provided a description, he does not have to actually make the           part....

        

       That being the case, you could           provide a sketch/picture of what you have done, the owner           could "improve on it" for his specific airframe and you could           fabricate it to his specs for $100/200 or ? and all parties           are served.

        

       I may have over simplified the           process but I would be comfortable with that scenario for my           airplane,

        

       Andy Thomas

        

       [quote]         ---

andy747(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: Seat Track

I understand....but if someone wanted to be of  service, this is a method.  As far as liability, I think the owner is the  designer....I am not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, so I  do understand !!

  

 Cheers....

 [quote]   ---

ArjayS(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject: Seat Track

I wish that were true....it's not.

 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  As far as liability, I think the owner is the designer

 	


 

   [quote][b]

quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: Seat Track

>The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is terrible. One side locks and   

>the other doesnâ€™t sometimes requiring me to monkey with it to get both   

>sides to lock. Any ideas?  

   

We have the same problem.Â  I can't reliably get it to lock -- I just have to wait for it to do it on its own.  

   

Can you give more details on where and what you "monkey" to get it to lock?  

   

I just keep moving it back and forth until it locks on its own. Iâ€™m afraid at some point it will give way and Iâ€™ll slide back probably during the landing flair  

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR  

   

   

--

quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: Seat Track

If you want to really mess up a good deal get lawyers involved, that’s too bad. I understand where you’re coming from. If it was one of those “take a piece of 3 inch by 6 inch aluminum stock and drill one hole right in the middle…..” that would be one thing but your design sounds a lot more complex and a potential feeding ground for ambulance chasers when all your trying to do is help a fellow Grumman Bubba out. Now if someone could only develop an effective and efficient air conditioner for the Grumman I probably would never get rid of it!  

   

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR  

   

     

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ArjayS(at)AOL.COM

 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:55 PM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Seat Track  

  

   

Hi Andy

 First, it's not in any way similar. I designed a double latch system, so it's impossible to slip. The adjustor bar pulls up and then out and retracts in the same sequence. Second, the part is machined out os aluminum stock. Different materials and different process. Third, we are an engineering company. If I provided any part of the design even for free, we're liable for it and without any compensation to pay the lawyers.

 Other than that stuff....No problem

 

 

   

Re:  seat track

  

 If the part is not available, it is my impression that the owner can make the part for his airplane, out of similar material and of similar design.  I also believe that if the owner draws a picture of the part and provided a description, he does not have to actually make the part....

  

 That being the case, you could provide a sketch/picture of what you have done, the owner could "improve on it" for his specific airframe and you could fabricate it to his specs for $100/200 or ? and all parties are served.

  

 I may have over simplified the process but I would be comfortable with that scenario for my airplane,

  

 Andy Thomas  



 

 

    	  Quote: 	
		     	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  	
8

       [quote][b]

quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject: Seat Track

John,  

          Good point! I almost deep sixed the seat belts until I took 10 minutes to clean and lube the latches. Now they work great.  

   

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR  

       

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hosler, John

 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:09 PM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Seat Track  

  

  

   

I disassembled the entire seat locking mechanism, re-lubricated and reassembled (after 30 year of operation).  Works like new now.  

   

John  

         

  

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Quinn

 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:00 PM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Seat Track  

  

   

Is there a better solution for the seat tracks in the Grummans? The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is terrible. One side locks and the other doesn’t sometimes requiring me to monkey with it to get both sides to lock. Any ideas?  

   

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR   

    	  Quote: 	
		     	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  	
8

       [quote][b]

bdsmith(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: Seat Track

 	  Quote: 	
		  Iâ€™m afraid at some point it will give way 

and Iâ€™ll slide back probably during the 

landing flair.


	


It's much more likely at take off, with the high deck angle of climb out.  Ask me how I know....



When it happens, it happens quickly.  I'm over 6 feet tall, and I fly with the seat only one click forward from fully back.  I know about seat rail failures, and I know what to do when it happens.



Still, when the rail gave way, and I scooted back the distance of only one click, I wasn't able to release the yoke fast enough to keep the stall horn from chirping.  I was, by the way, about 500 AGL.  Scary stuff.

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject: Seat Track

Hi Tom,

There are a few seats that are made wrong.  The holes, the mechanism, who knows.  There are just some that don't work right.  On the Project X plane, the pilots seat just didn't work right.  I took it apart and determined I could relocate bot of the pivot holes by crowding out the holes in the right direction and then using a bushing (a home made stainless steel bushing) on the bolts to take up the slop.  I also had to bend, ever so slightly, the cross-shaft/link to make it shorter.  As a side note, having a cross-shaft/link that is treaded so that it can be lengthened or shortened would be great.  

Gary



From: Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 2:00:05 PM

Subject: Seat Track



                  

Is there a better solution for the seat tracks in the Grummans? The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is terrible. One side locks and the other doesnâ€™t sometimes requiring me to monkey with it to get both sides to lock. Any ideas?   

     

     

Tom Quinn   

249RR    

     

        	  Quote: 	
		  =     * AeroElectric www.home-> 	


   



         [quote][b]

ArjayS(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: Seat Track

No kidding. Although I have a bunch of birds I still fly my Grummans the most. Just love flying with the canopy open

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Now if someone could only develop an effective and efficient air conditioner for the Grumman I probably would never get rid of it!

 	


 

   [quote][b]

quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: Seat Track

Gary, interesting. If some of the seat tracks were made wrong do you think if I was to purchase one through Fletch-air it would fix the problem? Iâ€™m thinking about taking the suggestion John Hosler had of taking apart, cleaning and lubing to see if that fixes the problem. If not maybe buying new seat tracks.  

   

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR   

       

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt

 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 7:14 PM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Seat Track  

  

  

       

Hi Tom,  

    

   

    

There are a few seats that are made wrong.  The holes, the mechanism, who knows.  There are just some that don't work right.  On the Project X plane, the pilots seat just didn't work right.  I took it apart and determined I could relocate bot of the pivot holes by crowding out the holes in the right direction and then using a bushing (a home made stainless steel bushing) on the bolts to take up the slop.  I also had to bend, ever so slightly, the cross-shaft/link to make it shorter.  As a side note, having a cross-shaft/link that is treaded so that it can be lengthened or shortened would be great.    

    

   

    

Gary  

    

         

  

From: Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com>

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 2:00:05 PM

 Subject: Seat Track    

Is there a better solution for the seat tracks in the Grummans? The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is terrible. One side locks and the other doesnâ€™t sometimes requiring me to monkey with it to get both sides to lock. Any ideas?  

   

   

Tom Quinn  

249RR   

   

   	  Quote: 	
		  =Â Â Â Â  * AeroElectric www.home-> 	


  

  

  



 

    	  Quote: 	
		    [b][u][b][u] 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		   	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9

       [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: Seat Track

On 12/1/2010 6:51 PM, Tom Quinn wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                            <![endif]-->       <![endif]-->                

If you want to             really mess up a good deal get lawyers involved, that’s too             bad. I             understand where you’re coming from. If it was one of those             “take a             piece of 3 inch by 6 inch aluminum stock and drill one hole             right in the middle…..”             that would be one thing but your design sounds a lot more             complex and a potential             feeding ground for ambulance chasers when all your trying to             do is help a             fellow Grumman Bubba out. Now if someone could only develop             an effective and efficient             air conditioner for the Grumman I probably would never get             rid of it!       

     	
     Here in FL, it's called 'open the canopy'!!!

     Sorry, couldn't resist!!!

     Linn

     [quote]                

         

          

          

Tom Quinn         

249RR         

          

                     

From:               owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)               [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                 Behalf Of ArjayS(at)AOL.COM (ArjayS(at)AOL.COM)

               Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:55 PM

               To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)

               Subject: Re: Seat Track         

         

          

Hi Andy

             First, it's not in any way similar. I designed a double             latch system, so it's             impossible to slip. The adjustor bar pulls up and then out             and retracts in the             same sequence. Second, the part is machined out os aluminum             stock. Different             materials and different process. Third, we are an             engineering company. If I             provided any part of the design even for free, we're liable             for it and without             any compensation to pay the lawyers.

             Other than that stuff....No problem

             

             

                      

Re:              seat track

              

           If             the part is not available, it is my impression that the             owner             can make the part for his airplane, out of similar material             and of similar             design.  I also believe that if the owner draws a picture of             the part             and provided a description, he does not have to actually             make the part....

              

           That             being the case, you could provide a sketch/picture of what             you have done, the owner could "improve on it" for his             specific             airframe and you could fabricate it to his specs for             $100/200 or ? and all             parties are served.

              

           I             may have over simplified the process but I would be             comfortable             with that scenario for my airplane,

              

           Andy             Thomas         



             

             

                     	  Quote: 	
		     	
0          	  Quote: 	
		   	
1          	  Quote: 	
		   	
2          	  Quote: 	
		   	
3          	  Quote: 	
		   	
4          	  Quote: 	
		   	
5          	  Quote: 	
		   	
6          	  Quote: 	
		   	
7          	  Quote: 	
		   	
8          	  Quote: 	
		   	
9          	  Quote: 	
		  	
0          	  Quote: 	
		  	
1          	  Quote: 	
		  	
2          	  Quote: 	
		  	
3          	  Quote: 	
		  	
4          	  Quote: 	
		  	
5          	  Quote: 	
		  	
6          	  Quote: 	
		  	
7          	  Quote: 	
		  	
8       

        	  Quote: 	
		  	
9     [b]

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: Seat Track

The problem is not the seat tracks, per se.  The problem is the lock mechanism doesn't line up correctly.  The only trouble I've had with the tracks themselves is when they are really dirty and gummy and don't slide well.  I use LPS-1 and WD-40 to flush out the residue.  Carb cleaner works too but it's really toxic.  Lube with either LPS-2 or WD-40 when you're done cleaning it.  They should slide pretty well.  

From: Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com>

To:  teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 4:27:36 PM

Subject: RE: Seat Track

Gary, interesting. If some of the seat tracks were made wrong do you think if I was to purchase one through Fletch-air it would fix the problem? Iâ€™m thinking about taking the suggestion John Hosler had of taking apart, cleaning and lubing to see if that fixes the problem. If not maybe buying new seat tracks.   

Tom Quinn   

249RR    

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt

 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 7:14 PM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Seat Track   

Hi Tom,   

There are a few seats that are made wrong.  The holes, the mechanism, who knows.  There are just some that don't work right.  On the Project X plane, the pilots seat just didn't work right.  I took it apart and determined I could relocate bot of the pivot holes by crowding out the holes in the right direction and then using a bushing (a home made stainless steel bushing) on the bolts to take up the slop.  I also had to bend, ever so slightly, the cross-shaft/link to make it shorter.  As a side note, having a cross-shaft/link that is treaded so that it can be lengthened or shortened would be great.     

Gary   

From: Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com>

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 2:00:05 PM

 Subject: Seat Track     

Is there a better solution for the seat tracks in the Grummans? The pilot side seat track in my Tiger is terrible. One side locks and the other doesnâ€™t sometimes requiring me to monkey with it to get both sides to lock. Any ideas?   

Tom Quinn   

249RR    

   	  Quote: 	
		  =     * AeroElectric www.home-> [/url] 	

     	  Quote: 	
		    [url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamG===%0a%3c/span%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20size=][b][u][/url][/u][/b] 	
 	  Quote: 	
		  [b][u][url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamG===%0a%3c/span%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20size=][b][u][/url][url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamG===%0a%3c/span%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20size=][/u][/b] 	
 	  Quote: 	
		  [b][u][/url][url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamG===%0a%3c/span%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20size=][/url][url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamG===%0a%3c/span%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20size=][url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamG===%0a%3c/span%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20size=][/url] 	
0 	  Quote: 	

1 	  Quote: 	

2[/u][/b][/u][/b]

jkevinl(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: Seat Track

In some cases the tracks may be the problem -  the Traveler,  I have been told, had tracks that were not heat treated and over nearly 40  years may stretch, fail to line up and allow the balls fall out of the  keeper.  We have rebuilt quite a few of these with new tracks and solved  the problem.  I know all the AG's had the heat treated tracks but I'm not  sure about the switchover point in Savannah.  The alignment issue can occur  for several reasons, one being a slightly bent spar bracket that allows the seat  to sit slightly crooked in it's mount. I guess they get bent while the seat  is out of the plane for servicing.  Another issue we have seen it an "out  of square" seat pan that was apparently dropped when out of the plane with  enough force to warp it - maybe they ran over it with their tug.  We  have also found loose clevis bolts that allow the seat to twist on the  bracket - this will also allow the tracks to be damaged as will missing  spacers on the rear attach bolts.  Our planes, after 30 plus years  of great and not-so-great annuals with  sometimes less-than-Grumman savvy mechanics display many non-standard  and "creative" repairs - many that look quite scary.  I would encourage you  to make sure your seats are functioning as they should and make sure all  hardware is properly installed and, as obvious as this sounds, are the  right parts.  If someone needs specific help, drop me a note and we'll  figure it out.

  

 Kevin Lancaster

 True Flight Aerospace

 [quote]   ---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> TeamGrumman-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum