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Thottle cable length

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: Thottle cable length

I spent most of the day hooking up my control cables on the engine.

  

 I was very surprised that the cables Vans provided with the kit were so tight and left little extra length to work with. I had installed eye ball pass throughs on my firewall in the same location as the stock SBs, But I had to drill out the aluminum cores so that the cables would fit through correctly. Unfortunely, I hadn't drilled the holes large enough and once the fittings where screwed down the cables were tight in the core. Hense, I needed to undo the eye balls so I could pull the cables tighter giving more room in the cable in the engine compartment. Even with that, I have no wiggle room.

  

 I was also very careful to keep the location of the cable handles in the same location as the stock part even though I fabicated a different subpanel which holds all the control handles.

  

 My mixture cable works through its full range of motion, but my throttle cable seems short by 1/4-3/8" even though the cable bracket on the throttle body is midway up the throttle cable threaded base. 

  

 Did other builders need to adjust double articulated arm on the throttle body so that the cable will make the throttle go to both stops- full open and full closed?

  

 Thanks,

  

 JOhn G #409

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: Thottle cable length

John, is this what you're speaking of?

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20051228/index.html

See down the page on throttle cable.

Tim





On Nov 28, 2010, at 9:03 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)> wrote:



[quote] I spent most of the day hooking up my control cables on the engine.

  

 I was very surprised that the cables Vans provided with the kit were so tight and left little extra length to work with. I had installed eye ball pass throughs on my firewall in the same location as the stock SBs, But I had to drill out the aluminum cores so that the cables would fit through correctly. Unfortunely, I hadn't drilled the holes large enough and once the fittings where screwed down the cables were tight in the core. Hense, I needed to undo the eye balls so I could pull the cables tighter giving more room in the cable in the engine compartment. Even with that, I have no wiggle room.

  

 I was also very careful to keep the location of the cable handles in the same location as the stock part even though I fabicated a different subpanel which holds all the control handles.

  

 My mixture cable works through its full range of motion, but my throttle cable seems short by 1/4-3/8" even though the cable bracket on the throttle body is midway up the throttle cable threaded base. 

  

 Did other builders need to adjust double articulated arm on the throttle body so that the cable will make the throttle go to both stops- full open and full closed?

  

 Thanks,

  

 JOhn G #409

 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	
		  



	


[b]

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: Thottle cable length

This what I am referring to, but you added a quadrant which must have made the length requirement change. I kept everything nearly the same and ran out of cable length. 

  

 I believe I will be able to fix this by adjusting the position of the servo arm as it can imcrementally articulate with the arm which hits the stops.

  

 Just trying the figure why I ran out of length and whether others have had the problem.

  

 Thank you for directing me to the exact location on your site.

  

 John

 

   From: Tim(at)myrv10.com

Subject: Re: Thottle cable length

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:30:05 -0600

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com



 John, is this what you're speaking of?

 http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20051228/index.html

 



 See down the page on throttle cable.

 Tim



 

On Nov 28, 2010, at 9:03 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)> wrote:

 

 [quote] I spent most of the day hooking up my control cables on the engine.

 

I was very surprised that the cables Vans provided with the kit were so tight and left little extra length to work with. I had installed eye ball pass throughs on my firewall in the same location as the stock SBs, But I had to drill out the aluminum cores so that the cables would fit through correctly. Unfortunely, I hadn't drilled the holes large enough and once the fittings where screwed down the cables were tight in the core. Hense, I needed to undo the eye balls so I could pull the cables tighter giving more room in the cable in the engine compartment. Even with that, I have no wiggle room.

 

I was also very careful to keep the location of the cable handles in the same location as the stock part even though I fabicated a different subpanel which holds all the control handles.

 

My mixture cable works through its full range of motion, but my throttle cable seems short by 1/4-3/8" even though the cable bracket on the throttle body is midway up the throttle cable threaded base. 

 

Did other builders need to adjust double articulated arm on the throttle body so that the cable will make the throttle go to both stops- full open and full closed?

 

Thanks,

 

JOhn G #409

 	  Quote: 	
		  



	






3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

com



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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

[b]

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:49 am Post subject: Thottle cable length

I suspect this is one of those issues that most everyone has heard about, but Van's chooses not to address. Kind of like the nose wheel/fork issues.



On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:12 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		       This what I am referring to, but you added a quadrant which must have made the length requirement change. I kept everything nearly the same and ran out of cable length. 

  

 I believe I will be able to fix this by adjusting the position of the servo arm as it can incrementally articulate with the arm which hits the stops.

  

 Just trying the figure why I ran out of length and whether others have had the problem.

  

 Thank you for directing me to the exact location on your site.

  

 John

 

   From: Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)

Subject: Re: Thottle cable length

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:30:05 -0600

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 



 John, is this what you're speaking of?

 http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20051228/index.html

 



 See down the page on throttle cable.

 Tim



 

On Nov 28, 2010, at 9:03 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)> wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   I spent most of the day hooking up my control cables on the engine.

 

I was very surprised that the cables Vans provided with the kit were so tight and left little extra length to work with. I had installed eye ball pass throughs on my firewall in the same location as the stock SBs, But I had to drill out the aluminum cores so that the cables would fit through correctly. Unfortunely, I hadn't drilled the holes large enough and once the fittings where screwed down the cables were tight in the core. Hense, I needed to undo the eye balls so I could pull the cables tighter giving more room in the cable in the engine compartment. Even with that, I have no wiggle room.

  

I was also very careful to keep the location of the cable handles in the same location as the stock part even though I fabicated a different subpanel which holds all the control handles.

 

My mixture cable works through its full range of motion, but my throttle cable seems short by 1/4-3/8" even though the cable bracket on the throttle body is midway up the throttle cable threaded base. 

  

Did other builders need to adjust double articulated arm on the throttle body so that the cable will make the throttle go to both stops- full open and full closed?

 

Thanks,

 

JOhn G #409

 	  Quote: 	
		  



	






3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

com



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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Thottle cable length

We had to order a longer cable.  I think we used the RV-7 throttle cable, I assume Van's has not changed the lengths of either the 10 or the 7 cable in the past few years.

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:03 am Post subject: Thottle cable length

Aren't we talking about 2 different things here?  I mean, the cable

not being long enough is one thing, but John's original question

stated he didn't get enough throw to go stop-to-stop on the cable.

That isn't really determined by cable length...although I can see

where a straight run cable might perhaps give you a tiny bit better

throw than one that makes a bunch of curves.  If the cable isn't

long enough to reach the attach points on each end, then you

get a longer cable.  If the throw isn't going stop-to-stop, you

have to play with the lever arm connections a bit to make it

throw the way you want it. I had to redrill both ends on mine to

make it perfect. I didn't want a throttle that didn't go stop-to-stop.

I wanted it almost 99.9% back-stop when at idle, and 99.9% to

forward stop when WOT.  This took a little eyeballing, but once

I did it, it worked perfectly.  I used the standard cable that

came with the quadrant.  For a couple cables, it would have been

nice to have an extra 1" or .5" of length, but it did work out

for me with the stock cables.



Regarding the melting of the prop gov. cable sheath, I found

that some aluminum tape around the cable worked well at

reflecting that heat so it wouldn't absorb.  You could build

an insulated heat shield with some high-temp insulation

wrapped on the cable, and some aluminum tape over it.  You

have to protect those things right near the exhaust...especially

the cowl.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 11/29/2010 7:30 AM, jkreidler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 We had to order a longer cable.  I think we used the RV-7 throttle cable, I assume Van's has not changed the lengths of either the 10 or the 7 cable in the past few years.



 --------

 Jason Kreidler

 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

 Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

 N44YH - Flying - #40617





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321568#321568

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Thottle cable length

The difference is the jacket of the cable.  If the jacket is too short, or even marginal then you are forced to run the anchor nuts all the way to the end of the jacket.  This sets in stone where the end of the cable will ultimately end up.  In our case we might have been able to get the servo arms adjusted just far enough to work, but the intersecting angle between the cable and the arm would have been nearly 180 degrees or straight on.  This does two things, first it creates the unlikely potential that the cable and arm may go over center and not function, secondly it makes the throttle harder to push for the first part of the travel.  Of course even with a longer cable and the anchor nuts all the way at the end of the jacket you would have the same problem (Tim, to your point).  By using a longer cable we were able to set anchor nuts away from the end of the jacket allowing the intersecting angle to be approximately 45 degrees at idle and wide open making the throttle pressure required at any point feel the same.



This topic has circulated in the past, I think the lengths Van's supplies for the quadrant are OK PER Timâ€™s and others feedback, but others beyond us have had to get longer cables for the standard setup.

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: Thottle cable length

Ahh, that clears up the issue. Yeah, you definitely wouldn't

want it to go over-center and cause a problem.  I've never

installed the push-pull type install, so I can't see it

all very clearly...on the quadrant install though, it seems

pretty simple.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 11/29/2010 8:34 AM, jkreidler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 "jkreidler"<jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>



 The difference is the jacket of the cable.  If the jacket is too

 short, or even marginal then you are forced to run the anchor nuts

 all the way to the end of the jacket.  This sets in stone where the

 end of the cable will ultimately end up.  In our case we might have

 been able to get the servo arms adjusted just far enough to work, but

 the intersecting angle between the cable and the arm would have been

 nearly 180 degrees or straight on.  This does two things, first it

 creates the unlikely potential that the cable and arm may go over

 center and not function, secondly it makes the throttle harder to

 push for the first part of the travel.  Of course even with a longer

 cable and the anchor nuts all the way at the end of the jacket you

 would have the same problem (Tim, to your point).  By using a longer

 cable we were able to set anchor nuts away from the end of the jacket

 allowing the intersecting angle to be approximately 45 degrees at

 idle and wide open making the throttle pre! ssure required at any

 point feel the same.



 This topic has circulated in the past, I think the lengths Van's

 supplies for the quadrant are OK PER Timâ€™s and others feedback, but

 others beyond us have had to get longer cables for the standard

 setup.



 -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony

 Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying -

 #40617





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321582#321582

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Thottle cable length

You're not alone, mine were too short (standard set up). I sent photos back and forth to Vans, couldn't resolve the problem. In the end I used a different, more direct routing, and have just enough slack (for engine vibration) to feel okay about it. Yes, I did have to move the arms on the throttle body to get stop-to-stop movement. But they're no where near 180 to the cable.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

ivankris

Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 21
Location: Guelph, Ontario. Canada

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Thottle cable length

All three cables were too short in my installation. I returned all three to Vans for credit and then re-ordered the 50.5" throttle cable from Vans which is 3" longer than the one they ship with the kit.



I then ordered two new cables (Mix & Prop) directly from the Mfg. and specified the length I wanted. They are a bit pricey (about twice Vans prices) that way but well worth the extra money to get the proper length for proper routing.



The Mfg. is ACS Products. This company was started by the same man who started Aircraft Spruce and was originally part of that company but is now a separate entity.



These are the part numbers:



Blue Knob VProp A-1760-30-0745-V with 2.5" stroke



Red Knob Mixture A-1760-20-0535-V with 2.5" stroke



This is a special non refundable order at $159.95 each so be sure that this is what you need. The part numbers I have given here gives you cables two inches longer than the cables you get from Vans, this is what I used and they worked fine. If I had to do it again I believe I would, like the throttle cable, make them 3 inches longer which would make the installation even easier.



If you plan a std Vans panel order them 2" longer. If you use CF panel from Aerosport Products order them 3" longer.



To order cables three inches longer change the last number for the blue knob from 0745 to 0755 (75.5") and for the red knob from 0535 to 0545 (54.5")



Keep in mind that if you plan on using the CF instrument panel from http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ then this brings the attach point of these cables in the cockpit back almost one inch which makes longer cables a definite requirement.



To order call Anthony Garcia at Aircraft Spruce at (951) 372-9555 ex. 456 or e-mail him at anthonygarcia(at)aircraftspruce.com and give him quotation # 249314

_________________
Ivan Kristensen.

www.ivankristensen.com
Builder # 40838
Flying (430hrs.)
C-GMDV

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: Thottle cable length

Thank you for that detail. Another option is to order cables you need from McFarlane Aviation. They make high quality PMA cables for Cessnas and some Pipers, and will custom make whatever you need. I haven't checked to see which would be cheaper.

 Kelly



On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:34 PM, ivankris <ivankris(at)rogers.com (ivankris(at)rogers.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "ivankris" <ivankris(at)rogers.com (ivankris(at)rogers.com)>

 

 All three cables were too short in my installation. I returned all three to Vans for credit and then re-ordered the 50.5" throttle cable from Vans which is 3" longer than the one they ship with the kit.

 

 I then ordered two new cables (Mix & Prop) directly from the Mfg. and specified the length I wanted. They are a bit pricey (about twice Vans prices) that way but well worth the extra money to get the proper length for proper routing.

   	




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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

pilotdds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: Thottle cable length

aircraft spruce sells screw on extensions for the control cables-anybody tried them?

 

   

 

 

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