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Merry Dawn

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GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: Merry Dawn

 	  Quote: 	
		   My battery is also corroded.  I'll be saving up some more change to get my

replacement parts.
	




I have a feeling that many aircraft batteries are damaged by sulfation, and

may not really need replacement.



I stopped at a yard sale down my street a month or two ago. Bought a TV

stand (oak, nice!) and asked about a red-top battery sitting there. It

looked like it had been lightly used (but you can't really tell). The guy

told me it was no good, but I could have it if I wanted. Apart from the

$7.00 the recycler gives for batteries, I had different aspirations. I took

it home and put my battery rejuvenator on it. At first the battery would not

take a charge at all. Now it is taking and holding a charge. Not sure the %

capacity yet, haven't done more tests. Process not finished.



One of my 4x4 buddies had an expensive yellow-top that was new, but had sat

with no charge for some years. I put a rejuvenator on that, coupla months

later I gave him back a like new battery.



My cousin was moving and I was helping. He was going to leave a deep cycle

battery sitting there. I took it, rejuvenated it, and it works like new. It

had very few actual working hours on it, it was just sitting for a few years

with no charge that allowed the sulfur compound that was deposited on the

plates from solution during the discharge process to change form with time

into a form of sulfate that is much more stable and resistant to the

charging current. This builds up over time until you have no 'bare' plate

left to carry on the chemical reaction and produce current. There are

several ways to eliminate or discourage the formation of sulfate, but the

older methods are a little harsh on the battery and/or not suitable for

domestic life in the suburbs. Selected chemical bonds can be 'excited' by

certain frequencies of of.. uh.. excitation. The desulfators use spikes of

electricity that are safe for electronic circuits, yet 'ring' the molecule's

bonds (not sure which ones) at a harmonic frequency. So without a huge

current, out-gassing, adding water, or any hassle one can safely re-claim

certain batteries. This won't help a worn out battery, a damaged battery,

shorted, with warped plates, etc, but a good battery that has simply been

allowed to sit discharged is a good candidate.



I used to go to a motorcycle shop that threw away a lot of batteries. They

sit too long in crates, on ships, on the floor, etc. I have a buncha good

batteries for my various projects and vehicles. I have- uh, twelve pieces of

equipment around here, including my vehicles, that use batteries. My diesel

PU and 5th-wheel each use two batteries. 



The rejuvenators cost between $25-$75 on-line.



My setup:

I have 100 watts of photovoltaic on my RV. Most of the time the RV is

parked. I attach the bad battery to the charging circuit. I attach the 12v

powered rejuvenator to the battery also. I let the mix work for a month or

so. The manufacturer of the device says that doing it this way is the

fastest way to fix a battery. It charges during the day, and the rejuvenator

is said to operate on one plate, then at night the rejuvenator operates on

the opposite plate, living off the residual charge in the battery. Thus both

polarity of plates get whacked.



They have these circuits in many RV power supplies now, stock.



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

I don't quite understand everything you said, but I've been wanting a sealed battery anyways so I will probably just buy a new one instead of rejuvenating the old one.

But thanks for the suggestion and info.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: Merry Dawn

Cristal

 

   I'm running a D-6 Harley Davidson spill proof battery.It fits in the box and it's been good for 3 years now.No idea what it cost's,but it has higher cranking amps than anything I could find that size at NAPA.

 G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200a

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

 	  cristalclear13 wrote: 	
		  I don't quite understand everything you said 	




I just used your situation as a jumping off point to offer an alternative to those few it really fits. Not everybody is interested in fooling around with batteries.



But wait! There's MORE!



For some of you pilots who buy aircraft batteries and don't want to fool with them, for $35 + shipping you can buy a rejuvenator that you wire up permanently. While I have no economic interest in this issue I think saving one aircraft battery would be worth the $$.



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

GeoB,



Do you have a link to this $35 wonder? I googled battery rejuvenator and only clicked on the first result....$1600 for some very sophisticated devise. I lost interest very quickly at that price.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:54 am Post subject: Merry Dawn

I ordered one recently for my seldom driven porsche. Battery Minder from Amazon, the vendor is Northern Tool.

Price, including shipping was $47.86

BB



On 8, Dec 2010, at 7:47 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 GeoB,

 

 Do you have a link to this $35 wonder? I googled battery rejuvenator and only clicked on the first result....$1600 for some very sophisticated devise. I lost interest very quickly at that price.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY (9G0)

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x32

 

 

 “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”

 Daniel Patrick Moynihan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322650#322650

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

Bob,



Do you mean this?



http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201



If so, I have one. I thought a "rejuvenator" was something else, that magically restores batteries that no longer hold a charge. I leave this connected to my Slingshot battery all winter (and only winter) to keep it fresh and it does the job well, as far as I can tell.



I've never tried it to "rejuvenate" a battery that would no longer hold a charge.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:23 am Post subject: Merry Dawn

Looks like the same one.  It is supposed to do the same thing.  Obviously a $35 unit

won't perform the same as a $1000 one.  

BB

Today would be a good day to transfer my remaining "av gas" from the plane to the snow plow.

On 8, Dec 2010, at 9:09 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Bob,

 

 Do you mean this?

 

 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201

 

 If so, I have one. I thought a "rejuvenator" was something else, that magically restores batteries that no longer hold a charge. I leave this connected to my Slingshot battery all winter (and only winter) to keep it fresh and it does the job well, as far as I can tell.

 

 I've never tried it to "rejuvenate" a battery that would no longer hold a charge.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY (9G0)

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x32

 

 

 “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”

 Daniel Patrick Moynihan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322659#322659

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:36 am Post subject: Merry Dawn

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201



If so, I have one.



Thom Riddle



Thom R/Folks:



Did you note this on Northern Tools web page?



a.. Not for use with aircraft batteries



Must be a "liability" issue.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama - 25F with a chance of snow flurries.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: Merry Dawn

A battery charger and a battery rejuvenator are 

nearly the same thing...  They both remove the 

sulfate from the plates...Sulfate begins to  form 

the minute a battery is unused... The Rejuvenator 

, a home built one, seems to be no more than a 

diode and some 100 watt light bulbs in series 

/parallel on the diode leg to reduce the current 

to abt 4 to 500  ma.. Plugged into an ac 

outlet...Three bulbs in series /parallel would give 1.5 amps roughly..



   The diode goes to the positive terminal  with 

the cathode . black band., pointing to the 

post..  The other side of the ac cord goes 

directly to the neg post..  So  the other side of 

the ac cord goes to 0ne to three  100 watt light 

bulb in series/parallel with a 3 or 4 amp diode . 

The diode being the  closest item to the positive 

terminal..  The idea is to hit the plates with a 

low current high voltage , half wave pulse...This 

knocks the sulfate from the plates where it 

settles to the bottom... After an hour or 

so...(minding the temperature of the battery) 

it  should be upended into a plastic tray and 

flushed with distilled water to get most of the 

sulfate crystals out...Filter the acid from the 

tray and add it back to the battery...top up with 

distilled water or battery acid..and 

charge..Naturally it will not work on shorted 

plates or open plates... All of this from 1 hour 

of reading on the net...Do it outside...and away 

from anything that could be ruined if the battery 

should explode..   Not particularly dangerous 

I think...I plan to give it a try...



  This site has the schematic...as well as a good 

explanation of the problem and cure...Herb



http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/166271-battery-rejuvenator.html

At 06:47 AM 12/8/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



GeoB,



Do you have a link to this $35 wonder? I googled 

battery rejuvenator and only clicked on the 

first result....$1600 for some very 

sophisticated devise. I lost interest very quickly at that price.



--------

Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A #1574

Tennessee Prop 64x32

â€œEveryone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.â€

Daniel Patrick Moynihan





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322650#322650

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: Merry Dawn

Maybe they are referring to gel-cell?  I could see a problem if the battery was unable to vent properly and 

could explode?  I did have a cap bang past my head one time.  Startling.

BB



On 8, Dec 2010, at 9:32 AM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201

 

 If so, I have one.

 

 Thom Riddle

 

 

 

 Thom R/Folks:

 

 Did you note this on Northern Tools web page?

 

 a.. Not for use with aircraft batteries

 

 Must be a "liability" issue.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama - 25F with a chance of snow flurries.

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: Merry Dawn

Cristal



 I'm running a D-6  Harley Davidson spill proof battery.It fits in the box and it's been good for 3  years now.No idea what it cost's,but it has higher cranking amps than anything I  could find that size at NAPA.

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  
	


 I am using a battery from a jump start from harbor  freight.   the jump start cost $38.00   or there  bouts... back when I bought it the  same battery from Arizona  battery was around 50.00  to 55.00   now they have a      18 amp hour for 38.75  and a 22 amp hour for 44.00   very little size and weight difference.  I am sure they would add frt. to  the cost.  

  

 when the battery was 5 years old and still working  well...  I ordered a replacement battery from harbor frt.   seems  it was 18.00  and 6 to 8 for freight  down side it took 3 months to  get it.   sure it came slow boat from china.  it is about 5 years  old now and still working well.  at the time I ordered 2  batteries...   one for the plane   and one to put back in  the jump start,   2 bats,  36.00  8.00 frt.. for  both.

  

 at least that is what I remember

  

 these batteries are Absorption Glass Mat (AGM) Sealed  Batteries

  

 Boyd young    mkiii



   [quote][b]

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

 	  Thom Riddle wrote: 	
		  GeoB, Do you have a link to this $35 wonder? 	




I am not sure how to answer this. When I checked a few days ago there was one for $34.99. Today I see one like mine at $37.00. In 2008 I paid $25.99 each for two. See 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-Desulfator-Saver-AGM-SLA-Gel-Wheelchair-Jetski-/200550605348?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb1bf6224



I get a little uneasy when people start putting words in my mouth. I hope you were not attributing the word 'wonder' to me. Everything I have said is factual. I do not intend to imply or endorse anything beyond my own experience with these things.



> I googled battery rejuvenator



Yeah, 'desulfator' is a much better word. There exist products that are poured into a battery- I have never used one and don't intend to- and I think 'rejuvenator' is a term that they use.



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

 	  Thom Riddle wrote: 	
		  Bob, I thought a "rejuvenator" was something else 	




This device does both- it maintains a charge at a low amperage. It will keep the battery charged without boiling out all the water, or building up pressure in a sealed battery. It also has a desulfator function. I use a float charger like these also but mine come from Harbor Freight for around $5 on sale. They do not have a desulfator function like the Northern Tool model. This sounds like a great combination because desulfator or not, you need a float charger on batteries during storage.



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

Last edited by GeoB on Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

> it should be upended into a plastic tray and flushed with distilled water to get most of the sulfate crystals out...



I would like to mention that no step like this is required when using the modern desulfators. It doesn't knock off chunks. To my understanding, which may be incomplete or in error, the physical action takes place at the meeting of the surface of the crystal and the current-carrying electrolyte. These is no heavy current melting a crystal like some do to 'rejuvenate Ni-cads. Actual specific chemical bonds are excited to a higher energy state. This weakens and breaks them freeing them to go back into solution. The atoms from the crystals go back into solution in an ionic state, and continue their normal and necessary function as part of the electrolyte. 



I have never shorted out a battery (with detritus building up under the plates) because of desulfating.



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Merry Dawn

GeoB,



I was not putting words in your mouth. "Wonder" was my word. I was just wanting to know where you could get one at that price. 



I'm happy to learn that my little Battery MINDer is a "desulfater" though I bought it just to maintain the charge on my SS battery during long cold winter non-flying spells.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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