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wingdingy(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: EFI on a 3300? |
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Greetings all,
A fellow Jabiru owner in Australia sent me the link to these guys: http://www.sdsefi.com/index.html
They are apparently doing EFI for Jabiru 2200 and 3300's, along with Lycoming, Continental, Rotax, Subaru, and many others.
It appears that their injectors bolt on where the intake pipes normally bolt up. There are apparently several Jabiru engines flying with this system and at least one Jabiru owner using this system who kept their Bing as a backup.
Sounds very interesting......anybody know anything about these guys?
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E
[quote][b]
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: EFI on a 3300? |
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This is very interesting....these folks (SDS) came to this site about
a year ago (if I recall correctly) and queried as to whether or not
people would be interested in an EFI system for the Jabiru engine. I
got real interested at the time, but then decided I'd rather have a
more "home-grown" system...less reliant on computers. At that time,
it seems like the SDS guy wasn't finding an overwhelming market here
on this site. Maybe he changed his mind.
Also, he mentioned that he would have to build a smaller, thinner
injector boss, as their present (at that time) boss was too large.
Anybody that feels like searching the archives...if Yahoo has
one...could probably look all this up.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1074 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2010, at 11:08 AM, John Lawton wrote:
| Quote: | Greetings all,
A fellow Jabiru owner in Australia sent me the link to these guys:
http://www.sdsefi.com/index.html
They are apparently doing EFI for Jabiru 2200 and 3300's, along
with Lycoming, Continental, Rotax, Subaru, and many others.
It appears that their injectors bolt on where the intake pipes
normally bolt up. There are apparently several Jabiru engines
flying with this system and at least one Jabiru owner using this
system who kept their Bing as a backup.
Sounds very interesting......anybody know anything about these guys?
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E
============================================================
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| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: EFI on a 3300? |
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I believe their conclusion last year was that they couldn't justify
offering complete bolt-on kits but that they would continue to refine
their offering with smaller injectors. Seems like they have made good on
that.
Just wondering.. If you would use Rotec liquid cooled heads, SDS
injection gear and Electroair ignition, are you still allowed to post on
the Jabiru list??
Rob
On 12/11/2010 9:06 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
| Quote: |
This is very interesting....these folks (SDS) came to this site about
a year ago (if I recall correctly) and queried as to whether or not
people would be interested in an EFI system for the Jabiru engine. I
got real interested at the time, but then decided I'd rather have a
more "home-grown" system...less reliant on computers. At that time, it
seems like the SDS guy wasn't finding an overwhelming market here on
this site. Maybe he changed his mind.
Also, he mentioned that he would have to build a smaller, thinner
injector boss, as their present (at that time) boss was too large.
Anybody that feels like searching the archives...if Yahoo has
one...could probably look all this up.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1074 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2010, at 11:08 AM, John Lawton wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> A fellow Jabiru owner in Australia sent me the link to these guys:
> http://www.sdsefi.com/index.html
>
> They are apparently doing EFI for Jabiru 2200 and 3300's, along with
> Lycoming, Continental, Rotax, Subaru, and many others.
>
> It appears that their injectors bolt on where the intake pipes
> normally bolt up. There are apparently several Jabiru engines flying
> with this system and at least one Jabiru owner using this system who
> kept their Bing as a backup.
>
> Sounds very interesting......anybody know anything about these guys?
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> Europa N245E
> ============================================================
|
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: EFI on a 3300? |
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I don't see why not...after all the basic engine is Jabiru, even if I
have made some (I think) improvements to it. But just for the record,
I don't plan on using ANY form of liquid cooling, or SDS injection.
What I have done on this list is to point out that the rocker bearing
material (that my engine came with) is crap....and Jabiru seems to
have changed that material. I also had a crank gear fail...as did a
few others...and a thousand or so engines later Jabiru makes the gear
stronger. No, I don't think Jabiru is gonna kick me off the list for
"improving" their engines, especially since they don't see fit to
engineer (some of) it right in the first place. Now this may seem
like I'm "tooting my own horn", and nothing could be further from the
truth. Hell, Jabiru apparently doesn't even monitor this list. But
let somebody bad-mouth the Aerocarb, and see how long you last. Does
that give any clues as to who does the "allowing to post" here?
Don't get me wrong....I love the simplicity of the Jabiru engine, but
they made it a little TOO simple....distributor caps and rotors? in
2010?....get real!
Oops, I just realized that this is the Matronics list.....so never
mind the reference to Aerocarb....that's the *other* Jabiru engine
site, where bad-mouthing the A'carb is grounds for expulsion. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x 55.5 Wood (winter) until the Prince prop arrives
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1074 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Dec 11, 2010, at 4:57 PM, Rob Turk wrote:
| Quote: |
I believe their conclusion last year was that they couldn't justify
offering complete bolt-on kits but that they would continue to
refine their offering with smaller injectors. Seems like they have
made good on that.
Just wondering.. If you would use Rotec liquid cooled heads, SDS
injection gear and Electroair ignition, are you still allowed to
post on the Jabiru list??
Rob
|
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
|
_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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andysilvester
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: Re: EFI on a 3300? |
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Hi Lynn,
The only horn you're tooting is the one to make the engine better! You shouldn't feel at all sensitive about criticising some aspects of the engine
- there's enough evidence to prove you were (and are) right. And to 'only'
criticise without action is a bit meaningless; you have engineered real improvements which we all learn from.
Knowing most of the guys at Jabiru (especially those involved in the early days when these designs were made) I still think they would defend the engine as 'functional and affordable'. Of course they know the addition of direct injection would improve efficiency and maybe power, but they have always tried to keep the engine's price at a point where it will sell in numbers, and particularly to those who want a 'cheaper than Rotax'
alternative and something more advanced than VW and other auto conversions.
In that regard they've done well, I think. The number of design-related actual failures is relatively low, and certainly manageable - they still sell engines. However, in almost 20 years of engine production there comes a time when technology advances 'past' the basic product and that's where I think we are now. Surely it can't be long before the humble carburettor is consigned to only to lawn tractors and the cheapest of motorcycles! I'm sure the problem for Jabiru is how to incorporate improvements like injection and variable ignition without putting the price up to un-competitive levels, in a production environment where (nowadays) I doubt they are selling more than 20-30 engines a month (the peak was about 80, I think).
No, in my view the only realistic way forward is what we see in other engine types like VW - a basically OK engine where after-market improvements make it better - at a cost. I'm saying all this in an attempt to understand Jabiru's business and commercial focus; I still think they've been lucky to carry some pretty-poor design decisions through the years, and owners / operators have borne the cost. The 'luck' has been largely because the engine has sold mostly into the Experimental aircraft market where the diversity of installation quality and owner knowledge / skill has given Jabiru the room to blame others for some of these design issues. Nowadays more engines are entering the 'factory-built' (SLSA) community where maintenance and operation falls more into the 'certificated aircraft'
environment and methods can't so easily be questioned, this wiggle-room is disappearing fast. Now, if Jabiru can get to the bottom of the oil pressure-flow issues and also the poor mixture distribution (mainly in 6-cylinders), there will be less for us to moan about!
Cheers, Andy
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