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beauford(at)tampabay.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:55 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Kolbers and Kolbettes:



Once again the mighty 447 asserts its total dominance over

a thoroughly beaten, sniveling and craven Beauford....



Last 5 hours -- Head temps are too high... they both climb steadily at =

full power, reaching=20

400 plus in about 20 seconds... and the fan-end cylinder remains hot, =

stabilizing

about 390 when one throttles back to normal (5800) cruise. Rear cylinder =

comes=20

down to about 360.



Data:

-- Engine had complete top end rebuild at Lockwood 16 hours ago...new =

pistons

and rings. Has consistently run hotter since rebuild, but not this hot =

until

last five hours.

-- Swapped plug thermocouples...verified front is hot cylinder and temp =

reads accurately

-- Same jetting as always... it previously ran at 340 CHT on these same =

jets

and with needle in this same (second) notch

-- No change in prop loading... turns 6050 static, 6450 wot in flight

-- Temps remain together up to 4400 rpm...then front takes off as =

throttle

is pushed up further...eventually gets to 40 degree difference

-- Both EGT's remain normal (1020)  at WOT... 1090 at cruise.=20

-- Plugs are clean and pretty...good color,slightly on light side... no =

trace=20

of excess carbon

-- Running Amsoil Saber 100 to one, but I'm mixing it at 70 to one

-- Ran a test tank of Pennzoil AC 50 to 1, no change in problem

-- All new gaskets throughout top of engine... heads and both manifolds

are torqued and re-torqued. No evidence of leakage at head or exhaust =

gaskets.

--Have not yet pulled exhaust to verify rings are free..that is next =

step, followed

by compression check.



I'm thinking air leak.   Anyone have any other "hot" ideas?

Also, is there any reliable way to leak-check the case and crank

seals without tearing down the engine...? =20



Beat-up Beauford

FF#076

Brandon, FL

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Beauford, you may be sniveling but I have never seen such a display of

manly persistence.  -not to mention an indomitable and durable bank

account.  This must be the 21st century's equivalent of the hair shirt.



Maybe if you borrowed a carb off of someone's happily running 447

to eliminate that angle?



-ignorant 4stroker BB     do not archive

On 2, May 2006, at 9:05 AM, Beauford wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Kolbers and Kolbettes:



 Once again the mighty 447 asserts its total dominance over

 a thoroughly beaten, sniveling and craven Beauford....



 Last 5 hours -- Head temps are too high... they both climb steadily at 

 =

 full power, reaching=20

 400 plus in about 20 seconds... and the fan-end cylinder remains hot, =

 stabilizing

 about 390 when one throttles back to normal (5800) cruise. Rear 

 cylinder =

 comes=20

 down to about 360.



 Data:

 -- Engine had complete top end rebuild at Lockwood 16 hours ago...new =

 pistons

 and rings. Has consistently run hotter since rebuild, but not this hot 

 =

 until

 last five hours.

 -- Swapped plug thermocouples...verified front is hot cylinder and 

 temp =

 reads accurately

 -- Same jetting as always... it previously ran at 340 CHT on these 

 same =

 jets

 and with needle in this same (second) notch

 -- No change in prop loading... turns 6050 static, 6450 wot in flight

 -- Temps remain together up to 4400 rpm...then front takes off as =

 throttle

 is pushed up further...eventually gets to 40 degree difference

 -- Both EGT's remain normal (1020)  at WOT... 1090 at cruise.=20

 -- Plugs are clean and pretty...good color,slightly on light side... 

 no =

 trace=20

 of excess carbon

 -- Running Amsoil Saber 100 to one, but I'm mixing it at 70 to one

 -- Ran a test tank of Pennzoil AC 50 to 1, no change in problem

 -- All new gaskets throughout top of engine... heads and both manifolds

 are torqued and re-torqued. No evidence of leakage at head or exhaust =

 gaskets.

 --Have not yet pulled exhaust to verify rings are free..that is next =

 step, followed

 by compression check.



 I'm thinking air leak.   Anyone have any other "hot" ideas?

 Also, is there any reliable way to leak-check the case and crank

 seals without tearing down the engine...? =20



 Beat-up Beauford

 FF#076

 Brandon, FL

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Beauford



   I feel for you!  My Firefly is sitting in the garage, not flying, on

account of lack of power which has been discussed before ...  Likely

crank center seals since all else has been checked..



  There is a fellow in East Tenn who has mounted a 40 some odd horsepower

half vw on his Firefly..  Just about ready to take a test flight ...

Won't be as good as a 447 in performance------.   He flew it previously

but got some bad gas which caused him to abort his first flight with

light damage to the Fly.. Ready to go again.. Definitely bad gas as he

had put it in some equipment around his farm and screwed the engines up

on those  also.. That was when he knew what was going on...



    I fly a half vw on an N3 pup and am  satisfied with it... Not as

smooth as a 447.   I have a second half vw and will look at the

installation in East Tenn before I decide to go that way... 5 gal tank

will give 2+ hours of cruise. It won't be a Firefly in terms of climb and

performance.. However-- 100 dollars buys two pistons , jugs, rings and

wrist pins..  valves cost 4 to 5 bucks.. main and cam bearing set

costs abt $40 for both.  Rear seal 7 bucks..  Gasket set about 10 ..  

Uses av gas with no worry..   



   You did not say that the fan belt was in good shape?   Herb 

On Tue, 2 May 2006 09:05:06 -0400 "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>

writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>

 

 Kolbers and Kolbettes:

 

 Once again the mighty 447 asserts its total dominance over

 a thoroughly beaten, sniveling and craven Beauford....

 

 Last 5 hours -- Head temps are too high... they both climb steadily 

 at =

 full power, reaching=20

 400 plus in about 20 seconds... and the fan-end cylinder remains 

 hot, =

 stabilizing

 about 390 when one throttles back to normal (5800) cruise. Rear 

 cylinder =

 comes=20

 down to about 360.

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

In a message dated 5/2/2006 8:56:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com writes:



Last 5  hours -- Head temps are too high

Beauford,

 

As Herb just mentioned, check the fan belt.  High head temps  usually point 

to an air cooling problem, whereas high EGT readings point to  a fuel mixture 

(lean or rich) condition.  While you look at the fan belt,  also look for 

obstructions in the cylinder fin area (like a rats nest or birds  nest?)  



Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive

tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Herb Gayheart wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

Beauford

   I feel for you!  My Firefly is sitting in the garage, not flying, on

account of lack of power which has been discussed before ...  Likely

crank center seals since all else has been checked..

  There is a fellow in East Tenn who has mounted a 40 some odd horsepower

half vw on his Firefly..  Just about ready to take a test flight ...

Won't be as good as a 447 in performance------.   He flew it previously

but got some bad gas which caused him to abort his first flight with

light damage to the Fly.. Ready to go again.. Definitely bad gas as he

had put it in some equipment around his farm and screwed the engines up

on those  also.. That was when he knew what was going on...

    I fly a half vw on an N3 pup and am  satisfied with it... Not as

smooth as a 447.   I have a second half vw and will look at the

installation in East Tenn before I decide to go that way... 5 gal tank

will give 2+ hours of cruise. It won't be a Firefly in terms of climb and

performance.. However-- 100 dollars buys two pistons , jugs, rings and

wrist pins..  valves cost 4 to 5 bucks.. main and cam bearing set

costs abt $40 for both.  Rear seal 7 bucks..  Gasket set about 10 ..  

Uses av gas with no worry..   

   You did not say that the fan belt was in good shape?   Herb 

On Tue, 2 May 2006 09:05:06 -0400 "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>

writes:

>

><beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>

>

>Kolbers and Kolbettes:

>

>Once again the mighty 447 asserts its total dominance over

>a thoroughly beaten, sniveling and craven Beauford....

>

>Last 5 hours -- Head temps are too high... they both climb steadily 

>at =

>full power, reaching=20

>400 plus in about 20 seconds... and the fan-end cylinder remains 

>hot, =

>stabilizing

>about 390 when one throttles back to normal (5800) cruise. Rear 

>cylinder =

>comes=20

>down to about 360.

>    

>

Herb & Beauford,

Herb & Beauford,

Boy, I feel really lucky with my 447!  I have had nothing but good

results with it even after doing all of the rookie dumb stuff to it

in the 500 hr.'s it's been running including a prop strike.

I can just imagine your frustration on being grounded with one of the

best little airplanes there is to fly!

Too bad you don't live close by, I have a two cylinder guru as a flying

buddy who repairs snowmobiles and jetski's as well as solves all of the

local guy's problems and mistakes, mine included.

I will say something to him, but it's hard to diagnose with out seeing and

hearing it.

Terry -  FireFly #95

DO NOT ARCHIVE

ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Beauford, it needs a good Seafoam treatment 



Seriously, have you retorqued the head bolts since the rebuild? You have to loosen them all up, then retorque according to the bolt pattern in many of the order catalogs.



Ralph

Original Firestar

19 years flying it



-- "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> wrote:




Kolbers and Kolbettes:



Once again the mighty 447 asserts its total dominance over

a thoroughly beaten, sniveling and craven Beauford....



Last 5 hours -- Head temps are too high... they both climb steadily at =

full power, reaching=20

400 plus in about 20 seconds... and the fan-end cylinder remains hot, =

stabilizing

about 390 when one throttles back to normal (5800) cruise. Rear cylinder =

comes=20

down to about 360.



Data:

-- Engine had complete top end rebuild at Lockwood 16 hours ago...new =

pistons

and rings. Has consistently run hotter since rebuild, but not this hot =

until

last five hours.

-- Swapped plug thermocouples...verified front is hot cylinder and temp =

reads accurately

-- Same jetting as always... it previously ran at 340 CHT on these same =

jets

and with needle in this same (second) notch

-- No change in prop loading... turns 6050 static, 6450 wot in flight

-- Temps remain together up to 4400 rpm...then front takes off as =

throttle

is pushed up further...eventually gets to 40 degree difference

-- Both EGT's remain normal (1020)  at WOT... 1090 at cruise.=20

-- Plugs are clean and pretty...good color,slightly on light side... no =

trace=20

of excess carbon

-- Running Amsoil Saber 100 to one, but I'm mixing it at 70 to one

-- Ran a test tank of Pennzoil AC 50 to 1, no change in problem

-- All new gaskets throughout top of engine... heads and both manifolds

are torqued and re-torqued. No evidence of leakage at head or exhaust =

gaskets.

--Have not yet pulled exhaust to verify rings are free..that is next =

step, followed

by compression check.



I'm thinking air leak.   Anyone have any other "hot" ideas?

Also, is there any reliable way to leak-check the case and crank

seals without tearing down the engine...? =20



Beat-up Beauford

FF#076

Brandon, FL



 

 

 



 

________________________________________________________________________

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EnaudZ(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

check fan belt

John Jung

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Relapse

 	  beauford(at)tampabay.rr.c wrote: 	
		  

I'm thinking air leak.   Anyone have any other "hot" ideas?

Also, is there any reliable way to leak-check the case and crank

seals without tearing down the engine...? 	




Beauford,



I'm pretty sure that your problem is not a leak, be it case or crank seals. A leak should cause high exhaust gas temps. I would check the fan, like others suggested, and after that, I would want to see the inside of the engine. Have you asked the people that did the work on it? I've been told that excess friction causes high CH temps, but I don't know a likely cause of that.

_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ

jr(at)rometool.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Hey all, I had high cht temps many years ago with a 447, this engine was 

brand new out of the box, cht temps were getting close to 500 degs. 

Eventually, I removed the heads to find that the head gaskets were not 

there.....this little bit of higher compression created the overheating. 

In cases where I thought I may have a air leak, this works great on 

motorcycles or any 2 cycle, with the engine running at idle take a can 

of starting fluid and spray the suspected air leak areas, the engine 

will rev upon finding a leak.

John

John Jung wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 beauford(at)tampabay.rr.c wrote:

> I'm thinking air leak.   Anyone have any other "hot" ideas?

> Also, is there any reliable way to leak-check the case and crank

> seals without tearing down the engine...?

>     

 Beauford,

 I'm pretty sure that your problem is not a leak, be it case or crank seals. A leak should cause high exhaust gas temps. I would check the fan, like others suggested, and after that, I would want to see the inside of the engine. Have you asked the people

  that did the work on it? I've been told that excess friction causes high CH temps, but I don't know a likely cause of that.

 --------

 John Jung

 Firestar II N6163J

 Surprise, AZ

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32353#32353

Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Relapse

"In cases where I thought I may have a air leak, this works great on 

motorcycles or any 2 cycle, with the engine running at idle take a can 

of starting fluid and spray the suspected air leak areas, the engine 

will rev upon finding a leak. "



I love that! I knew that in my old ring-ding days, there was a way to check, and you defined it! I truely hope this gives Beuford the edge he needs.

Ohio Ralph

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Works on 4 cycles as well...  I've used WD-40 to find leaks on Continentals

and Lycomings...  Same thing happens, engine RPM increases...



DVD



do not archive

On 5/2/06, Ralph Hoover <flht99reh(at)columbus.rr.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 

m
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   >



 "In cases where I thought I may have a air leak, this works great on

 motorcycles or any 2 cycle, with the engine running at idle take a can

 of starting fluid and spray the suspected air leak areas, the engine

 will rev upon finding a leak. "



 I love that! I knew that in my old ring-ding days, there was a way to

 check, and you defined it! I truely hope this gives Beuford the edge he

 needs.

 Ohio Ralph





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D32374#32374



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
	


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 	  Quote: 	
		  




	




--

=F4=BF=F4  "Failure lies not in falling down. Failure lies in not getting u=

p."

(traditional Chinese proverb)

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

jadamson

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 13

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Relapse

 	  Ralph Hoover wrote: 	
		  "In cases where I thought I may have a air leak, this works great on 

motorcycles or any 2 cycle, with the engine running at idle take a can 

of starting fluid and spray the suspected air leak areas, the engine 

will rev upon finding a leak. "



I love that! I knew that in my old ring-ding days, there was a way to check, and you defined it! I truely hope this gives Beuford the edge he needs.

Ohio Ralph 	




Gee, Ralph, I'da thought you'd remembered that from your "old Harley days" as well.  WD-40 or starting fluid around the intake manifold is the standard way to check for leaks on early Evos and prior, especially the ones with the rubber compliance boots.  Oh, I forgot, you ride one of them new-fangled Twin Cams.  (Sorry, couldn't resist.  )



John A

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Just remember to cone off the carb(s) to keep a combustible compound from

going in the engine that way and giving a false positive. The opposite is

also true, use water or carb cleaner and listen for the engine to slow down



On 5/2/06, jadamson <j-adamson(at)tamu.edu> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 

 Ralph Hoover wrote:

 > "In cases where I thought I may have a air leak, this works great on

 > motorcycles or any 2 cycle, with the engine running at idle take a can

 > of starting fluid and spray the suspected air leak areas, the engine

 > will rev upon finding a leak. "

 >

 >

 >

 > I love that! I knew that in my old ring-ding days, there was a way to

 check, and you defined it! I truely hope this gives Beuford the edge he

 needs.

 >

 >

 > Ohio Ralph

 Gee, Ralph, I'da thought you'd remembered that from your "old Harley days=

"
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   as well.  WD-40 or starting fluid around the intake manifold is the stand=

ard
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   way to check for leaks on early Evos and prior, especially the ones with =

the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   rubber compliance boots.  Oh, I forgot, you ride one of them new-fangled

 Twin Cams.  (Sorry, couldn't resist.  )



 John A





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D32392#32392



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
	


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 	  Quote: 	
		  




	




--

Rick Girard

"Pining for a home on the Range"

worrybear(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: Rotax Relapse

I know you did but I have to check, you did removed the gaskets from the

spark plugs?



Dan,

Ultrastar

Palmyra PA.



do not archive

---

beauford(at)tampabay.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: Rotax relapse

Kolbers and Kolbettes:

My sincere thanks to all who have responded generously with ideas about =

this

clear-cut instance of Austrian revenge....



Here is where it stands with regard to your suggestions...



-- The fan is OK... belt is tensioned, in good shape, and there is =

nothing foreign in the shroud

except this diabolical little motor...

-- Heads have been re-torqued twice... loosened and re-set to specs in =

proper sequence.

-- Head gasket is new and is OK... I put it there myself.

-- No washers under the plugs.

-- Ralph...this is just between us girls, but in a moment of reckless =

abandon, I actually=20

stooped to putting a goodly shot of --foam into the plug holes... =

waiting a while... taking a good

shot of --foam myself, and then running it out of the Rotax... no change =

other=20

than in my personal hydraulic habits....(3 stops on the way home... my =

rings

are free, thank you...)...   "Hello, my name is Beauford, and I use =

---foam..."

-- Not sure about the internal friction angle... except that the new =

pistons were

installed by pros and they mic'd it all several times in my presence =

while they

were installing them.... who d'ya trust...?

-- I have a virtually new Bing 54 in a box...it is from a 447. I will =

install it and test run

it before surrendering.

--Will pay-up my Blue Cross, extinguish the stogie, and get a bottle of =

ether and/or WD-40=20

and sniff the seals if all else fails...



For Brother Frantz, who has 500 trouble free hours on his 447... =

Evidently mere gin and Partegas

are not enough...  Whatever incense and incantations you are using, I =

want some....500 hours...?

"it just ain't natural..." as my in-laws say in South Georgia....



For Brother Gayheart...  half VW's are looking better all the time... I =

would settle for 15 or 20

honest horsepower and 50 lbs of air in the tires at this juncture...and =

I'll go on another diet.=20

=20

Immediate plan:  Based on input from a kind benefactor who repairs these =

contrivances for a living, I will next

unload the prop to 6250 static and revert to 50 to 1 oil mix...then hide =

and watch temps... He sez 447's are

highly sensitive to being overpropped.... mebbe I am too....



Thanks again to you all... Will advise...



Beauford

FF#076

Possum

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Georgia

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject: Rotax relapse

At 11:04 PM 5/2/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Kolbers and Kolbettes:

My sincere thanks to all who have responded generously with ideas about .


	




Rookie

ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: Rotax Relapse

Beauford, another thing to do is borrow a known good carburetor and swap it with the one you've got. If everything straightens up, then you've got it nailed.



I keep my old carb for just that purpose.



Ralph

Original Firestar

19 years flying it

-- "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> wrote:




Kolbers and Kolbettes:



Once again the mighty 447 asserts its total dominance over

a thoroughly beaten, sniveling and craven Beauford....



Last 5 hours -- Head temps are too high... they both climb steadily at =

full power, reaching=20

400 plus in about 20 seconds... and the fan-end cylinder remains hot, =

stabilizing

about 390 when one throttles back to normal (5800) cruise. Rear cylinder =

comes=20

down to about 360.



Data:

-- Engine had complete top end rebuild at Lockwood 16 hours ago...new =

pistons

and rings. Has consistently run hotter since rebuild, but not this hot =

until

last five hours.

-- Swapped plug thermocouples...verified front is hot cylinder and temp =

reads accurately

-- Same jetting as always... it previously ran at 340 CHT on these same =

jets

and with needle in this same (second) notch

-- No change in prop loading... turns 6050 static, 6450 wot in flight

-- Temps remain together up to 4400 rpm...then front takes off as =

throttle

is pushed up further...eventually gets to 40 degree difference

-- Both EGT's remain normal (1020)  at WOT... 1090 at cruise.=20

-- Plugs are clean and pretty...good color,slightly on light side... no =

trace=20

of excess carbon

-- Running Amsoil Saber 100 to one, but I'm mixing it at 70 to one

-- Ran a test tank of Pennzoil AC 50 to 1, no change in problem

-- All new gaskets throughout top of engine... heads and both manifolds

are torqued and re-torqued. No evidence of leakage at head or exhaust =

gaskets.

--Have not yet pulled exhaust to verify rings are free..that is next =

step, followed

by compression check.



I'm thinking air leak.   Anyone have any other "hot" ideas?

Also, is there any reliable way to leak-check the case and crank

seals without tearing down the engine...? =20



Beat-up Beauford

FF#076

Brandon, FL



 

 

 

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beauford(at)tampabay.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: Rotax relapse

..yeah.... I know......  but at this point I'd take help from Lord

Lockwood himself...



sigh...



do not archive



Subject: Re: Re: Rotax relapse

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 > Rookie

DieselsRcool

Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Los Barriles Baja,MX & Gig Harbor WA

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Relapse

Are you 100% sure your gauge is correct? What brand/type is it? I've seen the cheap ones do some funny stuff.



If EGT is right on and CHT is amiss, cooling system correct/stock and you havn't changed anything, I'd be sure and double check the source of your info. You could put both thermocouples under the same plug and see if they read the same.



Larry

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: Rotax relapse

|   I will next

| unload the prop to 6250 static and revert to 50 to 1 oil mix...then 

hide =

| and watch temps... He sez 447's are

| highly sensitive to being overpropped.... mebbe I am too....

|

| Thanks again to you all... Will advise...

|

| Beauford

| FF#076

Beauford/All:



I would even go a little further and say "all" two strokes are highly 

sensitive to "overpropping" and also "underpropping".



Overpropping pulls down EGT and pushes up CHT.  Sorta like running 

around in your 6 speed Ferrari, in 6th gear at 25 mph WOT climbing a 

mountain.  My turbo Cummins Diesel will kick the EGT past the red line 

in a flash if I am pulling low rpm and high throttle setting.  Drop a 

gear or two or three, get the engine and turbo winding and the air 

moving through the engine; EGT drops significantly.  I know, I know. 

It is not a two stroke.  Works about the same though, in a lot of 

respects.



Can not speak for Beauford's particular 447, but I never had EGT or 

CHT problems with mine as long as I left the engine set up like it 

came out of the box, PLUS prop the engine so that it will just bump 

the red line at WOT straight and level flight.  I prop my airplanes 

same as I prop my boat, WOT straight heading and bump the red line.



As long as I prop the engine this way, EGT's will be right in the ball 

park, and CHT's will remain in the green.  This was also true for my 

582.  With a ground adjustable prop, or a fixed pitch prop, adjusted 

this way will give you the best climb and cruise configuration, plus 

the engine will also be happy!!!



May not work for everyone, but it has worked for me, very 

satisfactorily.



Take care,



john h

mkIII



PS:  If this reply does not make sense it is because I just walked in 

the house after 4 days driving 33.5 hours, and 2,211 miles.  I am the 

new Daddy of a 1936 Farmall F-20.  At 4,400 lbs, if it had wings it 

would fly too.    Was a nice solo trip to Hampton, Iowa, pulling an 

empty 20 foot flat bed trailer one way, and hauling the F-20 the 

other.  Diesel fuel is out of sight.  Paid 2.85 a gal when I refueled 

the first time for the return trip.  Kinda takes the fun out of 

burning up the highway.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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