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Dennis Thate
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362
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 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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The grommets on my throttle/ choke cables are all cracking on my 2006 Kolb Firestar II. I'm the second owner of this aircraft, so my question is this ...can I replace these cable grommets myself or do I need an A&P to do this to make it legal?
If I'm able to do this, I would appreciate some expert advice.
Thanks,
Dennis
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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At 02:12 PM 12/20/2010, Dennis Thate wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
The grommets on my throttle/ choke cables are all cracking on my 2006 Kolb Firestar II. I'm the second owner of this aircraft, so my question is this ...can I replace these cable grommets myself or do I need an A&P to do this to make it legal? |
You don't need an A&P to do _any_ work on any experimental aircraft. Anybody can legally work on it.
-Dana
--
Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.
[quote][b]
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Anyone can work on an experimental aircraft, you just can't do the annual conditional inspection without some kind of certificate.This is an easy job to do, after you do it the first time. Take a picture of the assembly before you take anything apart so you'll have something to refer to when reassembling.
The hardest thing on both is to compress the springs, especially the starting carburetor (choke), when reassembling. Once your fingers are trained it hold the springs in compression while you guide the cable stop into its pocket you're set.
While you're doing the carburetors be sure and check the condition of the needles and clips. The needle should not spin in the clip. If the clip is loose you can tweak it with a pair of pliers, if the needle land is worn, replace the needle and clip.
Get your new grommets from JBM, they're better than the Rotax. After everything is back together smear a little lithium grease around the grommets to keep them supple and make them last a little longer.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Dennis Thate <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)>
The grommets on my throttle/ choke cables are all cracking on my 2006 Kolb Firestar II. I'm the second owner of this aircraft, so my question is this ...can I replace these cable grommets myself or do I need an A&P to do this to make it legal?
If I'm able to do this, I would appreciate some expert advice.
Thanks,
Dennis
--------
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Zulu Delta
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:14:30 -0500
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
| Quote: |
You don't need an A&P to do _any_ work on any experimental aircraft.
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Anybody can legally work on it.
Dana,
Might this only apply to the owner who built the experimental aircraft?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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Dennis Thate
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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http://www.121five.com/admin/FeatureArticles/Owner%20Performed%20Aircraft%20Maintenance.pdf
It's an Experimental, but I didn't build it myself.
Regarding Maintenance, if you didn't build it then there is NO difference between this
aircraft and a Type Certificated Aircraft.
Further more, you are NOT eligible to become a Repairman for this aircraft as you did
not originally construct it yourself; you can however perform Preventative Maintenance
on this aircraft I.A.W. cfr. 14, FAR 43, Appendix A.
All subsequent Annual Condition Inspections and any associated repair work, can ONLY
be performed by either an A & P Mechanic, or a Repair Station.
Just want to make sure we are all on the same page on this important detail.
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Nope any old hammer mechanic or drunk off the street can work on it. The inspection, however,
limits it to owner with repairman auth for that particular craft OR any sodden old A&P lured in with a tasty ale or two.
BB
On 20, Dec 2010, at 5:51 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
| Quote: |
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:14:30 -0500
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
>
You don't need an A&P to do _any_ work on any experimental aircraft.
Anybody can legally work on it.
>
Dana,
Might this only apply to the owner who built the experimental aircraft?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Dana
That isn't entirely true.
The rule for a experimental airplane is you can as the builder get a repairman's ccertificate to do your own work on the plane you built. A non builder needs to get a A & P to at least sign off on the work. A LSA armature built airplane needs to have the owner of the plane certified by one of those one week classes to do the work or again get a A & P to sign off on the work.
With that said there is some minor work that can be done on your own airplane even production certified aircraft. I don't know the exact definition of what that work is. You need to consult the regulations for the exact rule. I would think the grommets might fall in this area but?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote]At 02:12 PM 12/20/2010, Dennis Thate wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)>
The grommets on my throttle/ choke cables are all cracking on my 2006 Kolb Firestar II. I'm the second owner of this aircraft, so my question is this ...can I replace these cable grommets myself or do I need an A&P to do this to make it legal? |
You don't need an A&P to do _any_ work on any experimental aircraft. Anybody can legally work on it.
-Dana
--
Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Opps... may have been someone else.
Also if it is a true ultralight then all bets are off and anyone can work on them since it isn't considered a airplane.
Rick Neilsen
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Richard Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Dana
That isn't entirely true.
The rule for a experimental airplane is you can as the builder get a repairman's ccertificate to do your own work on the plane you built. A non builder needs to get a A & P to at least sign off on the work. A LSA armature built airplane needs to have the owner of the plane certified by one of those one week classes to do the work or again get a A & P to sign off on the work.
With that said there is some minor work that can be done on your own airplane even production certified aircraft. I don't know the exact definition of what that work is. You need to consult the regulations for the exact rule. I would think the grommets might fall in this area but?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 02:12 PM 12/20/2010, Dennis Thate wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)>
The grommets on my throttle/ choke cables are all cracking on my 2006 Kolb Firestar II. I'm the second owner of this aircraft, so my question is this ...can I replace these cable grommets myself or do I need an A&P to do this to make it legal? |
You don't need an A&P to do _any_ work on any experimental aircraft. Anybody can legally work on it.
-Dana
--
Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.
| Quote: |
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ttp://forums.matronics.com
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zeprep251(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:52 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Rick,
In a way, I think he is correct.You take the 16 hr course and you can do your own condition inspections.Anyone can do the work on E-LSA.If you built it,now it would be E-AB and you can get the cert by applying for it.No more E-LSA's,that should make the few out there more desirable.But are cable boots a major repair?Just be sure to use JBM boots so you only have to do it once.
G.Aman
--
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Jack, Rick,
Technically, the FARs don't even require an annual inspection for an experimental aircraft, but the operating limitations almost always specify an annual "condition inspection" to be performed by an A&P. To do regular maintenance, or even major alterations, on an experimental aircraft you don't need anything:
§ 43.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (d) of this section, this part prescribes rules governing the maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration of any—
(1) Aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate;
(2) Foreign-registered civil aircraft used in common carriage or carriage of mail under the provisions of Part 121 or 135 of this chapter; and
(3) Airframe, aircraft engines, propellers, appliances, and component parts of such aircraft.
(b) This part does not apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft...
See also <http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/MAINT.HTM>.
-Dana
--
Daddy, what does "Formatting Drive C:" mean?
[quote][b]
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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We really miss John Williamson in situations like this. He would have given us chapter and verse from memory. You are missing the text that is buaried somewhere in the FARs It does require that a amiture built experimental aircraft be (anything more than minor work) maintained by a A&P (or work signed off by a A&P) or the origional builder with a repairman's certificate. I have a repairmen's certificate that was a pain to get from the FAA when they issued my plane's airworthyness certificate.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Jack, Rick,
Technically, the FARs don't even require an annual inspection for an experimental aircraft, but the operating limitations almost always specify an annual "condition inspection" to be performed by an A&P. To do regular maintenance, or even major alterations, on an experimental aircraft you don't need anything:
§ 43.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (d) of this section, this part prescribes rules governing the maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration of any—
(1) Aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate;
(2) Foreign-registered civil aircraft used in common carriage or carriage of mail under the provisions of Part 121 or 135 of this chapter; and
(3) Airframe, aircraft engines, propellers, appliances, and component parts of such aircraft.
(b) This part does not apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft..
See also <http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/MAINT.HTM>.
-Dana
--
Daddy, what does "Formatting Drive C:" mean?
| Quote: |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Rick, The FAR that Dana has quoted is correct. Not only can ANYONE work on an E-AB or E-LSA, they can charge money for it, too. As has been pointed out, the exception is any kind of conditional inspection. An E-AB requires a repairman certificate for the original builder or an A & P (but no IA is required) for subsequent owners, an E-LSA requires any of the LSARI, LSARM, or A & P certificates. As far as major repairs go, your operating limitations probably require you to notify your local FSDO, but this is primarily so they can issue new operating limitations that put the aircraft back into phase one testing and establish your testing area.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Richard Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | We really miss John Williamson in situations like this. He would have given us chapter and verse from memory. You are missing the text that is buaried somewhere in the FARs It does require that a amiture built experimental aircraft be (anything more than minor work) maintained by a A&P (or work signed off by a A&P) or the origional builder with a repairman's certificate. I have a repairmen's certificate that was a pain to get from the FAA when they issued my plane's airworthyness certificate.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Jack, Rick,
Technically, the FARs don't even require an annual inspection for an experimental aircraft, but the operating limitations almost always specify an annual "condition inspection" to be performed by an A&P. To do regular maintenance, or even major alterations, on an experimental aircraft you don't need anything:
§ 43.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (d) of this section, this part prescribes rules governing the maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration of any—
(1) Aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate;
(2) Foreign-registered civil aircraft used in common carriage or carriage of mail under the provisions of Part 121 or 135 of this chapter; and
(3) Airframe, aircraft engines, propellers, appliances, and component parts of such aircraft.
(b) This part does not apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft..
See also <http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/MAINT.HTM>.
-Dana
--
Daddy, what does "Formatting Drive C:" mean?
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
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cristalclear13
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Wouldn't you want to come from the other direction to replace those (take the wire out of your splitter)?
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Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Dana is correct as is Rick Girard. So anything you hear or read contrary to what is written in the actual current regulations is incorrect. You can find the following at
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=780339ea932f98232855a65df3d96916&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.3.21&idno=14#14:1.0.1.3.21.0.363.1
or
http://tinyurl.com/24o4skl
Note in particular 43.1 (b) and (b)(1)
§ 43.1 Applicability.
top
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (d) of this section, this part prescribes rules governing the maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration of any—
(1) Aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate;
(2) Foreign-registered civil aircraft used in common carriage or carriage of mail under the provisions of Part 121 or 135 of this chapter; and
(3) Airframe, aircraft engines, propellers, appliances, and component parts of such aircraft.
(b) This part does not apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft; or
(2) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under the provisions of §21.191 (i)(3) of this chapter, and the aircraft was previously issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category under the provisions of §21.190 of this chapter.
(c) This part applies to all life-limited parts that are removed from a type certificated product, segregated, or controlled as provided in §43.10.
(d) This part applies to any aircraft issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category except:
(1) The repair or alteration form specified in §§43.5(b) and 43.9(d) is not required to be completed for products not produced under an FAA approval;
(2) Major repairs and major alterations for products not produced under an FAA approval are not required to be recorded in accordance with appendix B of this part; and
(3) The listing of major alterations and major repairs specified in paragraphs (a) and (b) of appendix A of this part is not applicable to products not produced under an FAA approval.
[Doc. No. 1993, 29 FR 5451, Apr. 23, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 43–23, 47 FR 41084, Sept. 16, 1982; Amdt. 43–37, 66 FR 21066, Apr. 27, 2001; Amdt. 43–38, 67 FR 2109, Jan. 15, 2002; Amdt. 43–39, 69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004; Amdt. 43–44, 75 FR 5219, Feb. 1, 2010]
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Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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Cristal, I'm not sure how you could do this if your throttle and choke cables have terminations on both ends. The splitter has threaded plugs on both ends so the cables would get all twisted up as the threads are both right hand. It might work for cables that clamped by a set screw but if the cable slips up inside the housing, and the ends are frayed or splayed they get caught if the end cover. When you disassemble from the carb and starting carb ends you get the advantage of being able to inspect the the cable termination, the condition of the cable, the o-ring on top of the needle clip, the condition of the needle grooves and how the clip fits. For the starting carb you also get to inspect the rubber face of the plug to make sure it is sealing correctly.
Rick
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 3:29 PM, cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)>
Wouldn't you want to come from the other direction to replace those (take the wire out of your splitter)?
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
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Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
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George Alexander
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Kolb / Rotax503 Question |
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| rickofudall wrote: | - - - snip - - -
For the starting carb you also get to inspect the rubber face of the plug to make sure it is sealing correctly.�
Rick
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Probably one of the most neglected components of the fuel system on 2 strokes.
Less than proper seal can possibly lead to excessive carbon build up. Unless of course you are a Sea Foam user. 8>)
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George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
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