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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: Engine choice

I weighing my options for engines right now and would like some input 

from those who are doing the same or have already made their decision.



I'm considering the big 3 and leaning towards the 3300. Seems like the 

best cost/weight/power/ease of installation combination.



Looking forward to any comments except that I should retire this list 

and post somewhere else. 

-- 

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

dave.go

Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 26

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: Engine choice

Engine choice is very personal, and I encourage you to do what is best for 

your situation.... But if it were my choice I would use an O-200.  Reliable, 

proven, available, sometimes cheap. their low-revving power is ideal for a 

draggy slow aircraft.



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I'm considering the big 3 and leaning towards the 3300. Seems like the 

 best cost/weight/power/ease of installation combination.

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:14 am Post subject: Engine choice

Recommend you look over the Jabiru list archives before making your decision. I fournd it to be an eye opener.



On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:31 PM, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith750-List message posted by: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)>

  

 I weighing my options for engines right now and would like some input from those who are doing the same or have already made their decision.

 

 I'm considering the big 3 and leaning towards the 3300. Seems like the best cost/weight/power/ease of installation combination.

 

 Looking forward to any comments except that I should retire this list and post somewhere else. 

 -- 

 Raymond Julian

 Kettle River, MN

 

 ===========

 om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 ===========

 st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith750-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: Engine choice

Dave,

Thanks for the reply.

I looked at the O200 lightweight that Zenith lists and the cost and the 

fact that they don't have a FWF kit pushed me towards the 3300.  I 

looking for as much of a "tab A in slot B" assembly process as I can find.

Rereading my last post I should have said Rotax, Jab, and Cont because 

those are the ones that seem to have been developed for the 750.

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

On 12/31/2010 12:23 PM, Dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Engine choice is very personal, and I encourage you to do what is best

 for your situation.... But if it were my choice I would use an O-200.

 Reliable, proven, available, sometimes cheap. their low-revving power is

 ideal for a draggy slow aircraft.

> 

> I'm considering the big 3 and leaning towards the 3300. Seems like the

> best cost/weight/power/ease of installation combination.

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:45 am Post subject: Engine choice

There are apparently a number of FWF packages from the factory that for some

reason are not listed on the web site (Rotax for one). Give them a call.



-- Craig



--

dave.go

Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 26

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: Engine choice

I understand, there is where the "best for your situation" comes in. One can 

get uncertified O-200's or ones in need of service or in unknown condition 

so inexpensively that I could never overlook them. They are simple in the 

extreme and easy to service. If you cannot achieve the "extremely 

inexpensive" position with it then other options become more attractive.

---

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: Engine choice

Craig,



Thanks for the reply.



I emailed about it and they offer a cowl and engine mount for the O200, 

they have a full FWF for the 3300, and I'll have to do some more digging 

about the rotax.



My 1st choice is Corvair, but I'm concerned about how the use of an auto 

conversion will affect the resale value, if it comes to that. My future 

is unpredictable, so if I am going to move forward facing that 

unpredictability I want to have selling as an option.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



On 12/31/2010 01:43 PM, Craig Payne wrote:

[quote] 



 There are apparently a number of FWF packages from the factory that for some

 reason are not listed on the web site (Rotax for one). Give them a call.



 -- Craig



 --

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: Engine choice

I'm afraid you have to put resale value aside, regardless of your engine

choice. Look through Branstormers and there are all kinds of experimentals

for sale at below what the builders have in them.



Also (having owned but not flown Corvair, Jabiru and Rotax engines on Zenith

aircraft) you will have a hard time meeting your desire for a "tab A in slot

B" FWF. You can get close but if you read through the engine-specific lists

you see a lot of tinkering is required. Part of this is the "Internet

effect" - only those with problems post messages. But none of these FWF kits

are a slam-dunk. On the Jabiru you get to fiddle with the cooling and carb.

In a slow flying plane like the 750 cooling is an issue. If you ask William

Wynne I don't think he ever achieved adequate cooling on the Corvair-powerd

701.



I'm putting a Rotax on my 701 but it might be underpowered for the 750. Of

course I live at 7000 ft and am surrounded by 10,000 ft peaks so I am more

sensitive to power needs.



Also pay attention to weight and balance. Getting accurate data is hard but

with the wrong engine you can end up with a plane that is not very useful.

The best thing to do is get real W&B numbers from flying 750.



If I was in your shoes and expected to fly below 5000 ft I would look hard

at the Rotax. There is a lot of plumbing to hook up. But it is light, there

are thousands flying and it will run cool at low speeds. I know of two that

have flown around the world (one with legs of 23+ hours).



If you choose to build a non-LSA 750 (via the new gross limit) you will have

more choices. But I suspect that a non-LSA 750 would be harder to sell.



If your future is uncertain then rent. You can get a lot of hours in a

Cessna 150 for the price of a 750.



-- Craig



--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: Engine choice

This is what Jon Croke wrote about the factory FWF packages for the 750 in

September:



"I just called Zenith and talked to Shirley... I didn't realize it was not

listed on the website - you are correct - I could not find it either!

 

It IS available directly from Zenith (manufactured by Zenair, not Can-zac)

for the current price of $6125.

 

Also, the Jabiru FWF is now to be purchased directly from Zenith, as well as

the Continental (but that one is only prop, mount, baffle)

 

Of course, the Rotax engine is available from Zenith... but just like

seafood, the price is "market price"  - ask your waiter."



-- Craig



--

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: Engine choice

Craig,



You bring up some interesting points. Unfortunately, renting a 150 isn't 

and option.  I'll keep doing my research.



Does anybody know right off hand if Zenith usually has any show specials 

at Air Venture?  Same question for Rotax, Jab, and Cont.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



On 12/31/2010 02:36 PM, Craig Payne wrote:

[quote] 



 I'm afraid you have to put resale value aside, regardless of your engine

 choice. Look through Branstormers and there are all kinds of experimentals

 for sale at below what the builders have in them.



 Also (having owned but not flown Corvair, Jabiru and Rotax engines on Zenith

 aircraft) you will have a hard time meeting your desire for a "tab A in slot

 B" FWF. You can get close but if you read through the engine-specific lists

 you see a lot of tinkering is required. Part of this is the "Internet

 effect" - only those with problems post messages. But none of these FWF kits

 are a slam-dunk. On the Jabiru you get to fiddle with the cooling and carb.

 In a slow flying plane like the 750 cooling is an issue. If you ask William

 Wynne I don't think he ever achieved adequate cooling on the Corvair-powerd

 701.



 I'm putting a Rotax on my 701 but it might be underpowered for the 750. Of

 course I live at 7000 ft and am surrounded by 10,000 ft peaks so I am more

 sensitive to power needs.



 Also pay attention to weight and balance. Getting accurate data is hard but

 with the wrong engine you can end up with a plane that is not very useful.

 The best thing to do is get real W&B numbers from flying 750.



 If I was in your shoes and expected to fly below 5000 ft I would look hard

 at the Rotax. There is a lot of plumbing to hook up. But it is light, there

 are thousands flying and it will run cool at low speeds. I know of two that

 have flown around the world (one with legs of 23+ hours).



 If you choose to build a non-LSA 750 (via the new gross limit) you will have

 more choices. But I suspect that a non-LSA 750 would be harder to sell.



 If your future is uncertain then rent. You can get a lot of hours in a

 Cessna 150 for the price of a 750.



 -- Craig



 --

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: Engine choice

Ken,



Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll take a look.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



On 12/31/2010 01:12 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Recommend you look over the Jabiru list archives before making your

 decision. I fournd it to be an eye opener.



 On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:31 PM, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net

 <mailto:raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>> wrote:



     

     <mailto:raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>>



     I weighing my options for engines right now and would like some

     input from those who are doing the same or have already made their

     decision.



     I'm considering the big 3 and leaning towards the 3300. Seems like

     the best cost/weight/power/ease of installation combination.



     Looking forward to any comments except that I should retire this

     list and post somewhere else. 

     --

     Raymond Julian

     Kettle River, MN



     ===========

     om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

     ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

     et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

     ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     le, List Admin.

     ===========

     st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith750-List

     ===========

     http://forums.matronics.com

     ===========





 *



 *

buells2t

Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Las Vegas NV

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: Engine choice

I'm in the same spot trying to decide which engine. I'm not far along in my build so I have some time. I'm leaning toward the 3300 as well. Seems like a good bang for the buck. I have read most of the issues owners have had and have heard that the new cowl fixes most of the cooling issues. I have a friend flying a 3300 in a Bush Caddy and he loves it.

Hard to beat the reliability and reputation of an 0200, but 3300 weighs less with more power too.

The Rotax seems like a good option, but pricy to buy, pricy to maintain. I'm taking 2 Rotax classes in late February maybe I will feel differently after.

Anyone on the list have a flying 750?

What are you running? 

Thanks,

Mike 

On Dec 31, 2010, at 8:30 PM, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:

[quote] 

 Craig,

 You bring up some interesting points. Unfortunately, renting a 150 isn't and option.  I'll keep doing my research.

 Does anybody know right off hand if Zenith usually has any show specials at Air Venture?  Same question for Rotax, Jab, and Cont.

 Raymond Julian

 Kettle River, MN

 On 12/31/2010 02:36 PM, Craig Payne wrote:

> 

> 

> I'm afraid you have to put resale value aside, regardless of your engine

> choice. Look through Branstormers and there are all kinds of experimentals

> for sale at below what the builders have in them.

> 

> Also (having owned but not flown Corvair, Jabiru and Rotax engines on Zenith

> aircraft) you will have a hard time meeting your desire for a "tab A in slot

> B" FWF. You can get close but if you read through the engine-specific lists

> you see a lot of tinkering is required. Part of this is the "Internet

> effect" - only those with problems post messages. But none of these FWF kits

> are a slam-dunk. On the Jabiru you get to fiddle with the cooling and carb.

> In a slow flying plane like the 750 cooling is an issue. If you ask William

> Wynne I don't think he ever achieved adequate cooling on the Corvair-powerd

> 701.

> 

> I'm putting a Rotax on my 701 but it might be underpowered for the 750. Of

> course I live at 7000 ft and am surrounded by 10,000 ft peaks so I am more

> sensitive to power needs.

> 

> Also pay attention to weight and balance. Getting accurate data is hard but

> with the wrong engine you can end up with a plane that is not very useful.

> The best thing to do is get real W&B numbers from flying 750.

> 

> If I was in your shoes and expected to fly below 5000 ft I would look hard

> at the Rotax. There is a lot of plumbing to hook up. But it is light, there

> are thousands flying and it will run cool at low speeds. I know of two that

> have flown around the world (one with legs of 23+ hours).

> 

> If you choose to build a non-LSA 750 (via the new gross limit) you will have

> more choices. But I suspect that a non-LSA 750 would be harder to sell.

> 

> If your future is uncertain then rent. You can get a lot of hours in a

> Cessna 150 for the price of a 750.

> 

> -- Craig

> 

> --

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: Engine choice

Mike,

 From what I've read it sounds like Jab knows what the solution is. The 

problem is whether or not it can be implemented.  My gut feeling is that 

Zenith has the problem solved or they wouldn't be advertising  it as a 

designed to fit option.

People are talking about the O200. The one Zenith lists on their web 

site it the NEW O200 Lightweight. New from Cont. for the lsa market. 

Cont has a good rep but is seems like there's usually a few bugs in any 

new product.  Zenith doesn't have a FWF package yet but they say they 

are developing one.

I'm not in a big hurry to make a decision myself.  I'm hoping to decide 

by Oshkosh and maybe be able to take advantage of a show special.

I'd be interested to hear what you think after your classes.  I've heard 

rumors that you have to take a class to work on your engine, even if 

it's in an experimental.

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

On 01/01/2011 12:29 AM, Michael Daniels wrote:

[quote] 

 I'm in the same spot trying to decide which engine. I'm not far along in my build so I have some time. I'm leaning toward the 3300 as well. Seems like a good bang for the buck. I have read most of the issues owners have had and have heard that the new cowl fixes most of the cooling issues. I have a friend flying a 3300 in a Bush Caddy and he loves it.

 Hard to beat the reliability and reputation of an 0200, but 3300 weighs less with more power too.

 The Rotax seems like a good option, but pricy to buy, pricy to maintain. I'm taking 2 Rotax classes in late February maybe I will feel differently after.

 Anyone on the list have a flying 750?

 What are you running?

 Thanks,

 Mike

 On Dec 31, 2010, at 8:30 PM, rayj<raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>  wrote:

> 

>

> Craig,

>

> You bring up some interesting points. Unfortunately, renting a 150 isn't and option.  I'll keep doing my research.

>

> Does anybody know right off hand if Zenith usually has any show specials at Air Venture?  Same question for Rotax, Jab, and Cont.

>

> Raymond Julian

> Kettle River, MN

>

> On 12/31/2010 02:36 PM, Craig Payne wrote:

>> 

>>

>> I'm afraid you have to put resale value aside, regardless of your engine

>> choice. Look through Branstormers and there are all kinds of experimentals

>> for sale at below what the builders have in them.

>>

>> Also (having owned but not flown Corvair, Jabiru and Rotax engines on Zenith

>> aircraft) you will have a hard time meeting your desire for a "tab A in slot

>> B" FWF. You can get close but if you read through the engine-specific lists

>> you see a lot of tinkering is required. Part of this is the "Internet

>> effect" - only those with problems post messages. But none of these FWF kits

>> are a slam-dunk. On the Jabiru you get to fiddle with the cooling and carb.

>> In a slow flying plane like the 750 cooling is an issue. If you ask William

>> Wynne I don't think he ever achieved adequate cooling on the Corvair-powerd

>> 701.

>>

>> I'm putting a Rotax on my 701 but it might be underpowered for the 750. Of

>> course I live at 7000 ft and am surrounded by 10,000 ft peaks so I am more

>> sensitive to power needs.

>>

>> Also pay attention to weight and balance. Getting accurate data is hard but

>> with the wrong engine you can end up with a plane that is not very useful.

>> The best thing to do is get real W&B numbers from flying 750.

>>

>> If I was in your shoes and expected to fly below 5000 ft I would look hard

>> at the Rotax. There is a lot of plumbing to hook up. But it is light, there

>> are thousands flying and it will run cool at low speeds. I know of two that

>> have flown around the world (one with legs of 23+ hours).

>>

>> If you choose to build a non-LSA 750 (via the new gross limit) you will have

>> more choices. But I suspect that a non-LSA 750 would be harder to sell.

>>

>> If your future is uncertain then rent. You can get a lot of hours in a

>> Cessna 150 for the price of a 750.

>>

>> -- Craig

>>

>> --

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: Engine choice

The price of the Rotax and the Jabiru tend to be driven by the exchange rate

of the Euro and the Aus dollar, respectively.



The price of a Jabiru may be going up as Jabiru itself and the company that

actually makes the engine (www.camit.net) are located in Bundaberg,

Australia and probably under water from the massive flooding.



-- Craig



--

nsmit(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: engine choice

Raymond,



I'm building a 750 and have started rebuilding a Corvair engine for mine. Go

to FlyCorvair.com, which is William Wynne's site and the person who has been

working with these engines for aviation use for possibly two decades.  My

reasons are that the engine has a mature history and the kinks have been

worked out for aviation use.  It is very close to the same weight as an

O-200, air cooled, and direct drive. I'm not going this route, but you can

buy a complete firewall forward package from William Wynne - engine mount to

propeller - although he usually encourages people to build their own in

keeping with experimental aviation's educative principle. It is cheaper than

a certified engine to purchase and the long-term running costs will be

significantly better.  Because complete firewall forward development has

been done, it makes completion that much more straightforward for builders

like myself, because I don't have to reinvent the wheel.  (I'm not getting

anything for this mention, by the way.)



Norman

Garner, NC

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: engine choice

I have a couple of Corvairs and a manual sitting here. I was planning on 

using one in a 750 when I started. I'm not sure how having an auto 

conversion will affect my resale, If I have to sell it.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



On 01/02/2011 07:08 PM, Norman Smit wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Raymond,



 I'm building a 750 and have started rebuilding a Corvair engine for mine. Go

 to FlyCorvair.com, which is William Wynne's site and the person who has been

 working with these engines for aviation use for possibly two decades.  My

 reasons are that the engine has a mature history and the kinks have been

 worked out for aviation use.  It is very close to the same weight as an

 O-200, air cooled, and direct drive. I'm not going this route, but you can

 buy a complete firewall forward package from William Wynne - engine mount to

 propeller - although he usually encourages people to build their own in

 keeping with experimental aviation's educative principle. It is cheaper than

 a certified engine to purchase and the long-term running costs will be

 significantly better.  Because complete firewall forward development has

 been done, it makes completion that much more straightforward for builders

 like myself, because I don't have to reinvent the wheel.  (I'm not getting

 anything for this mention, by the way.)



 Norman

 Garner, NC

jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: engine choice

Sorry about letting that "Probable Spam" in the subject line of my last post live on!

Some email servers add that to the subject to flag possible spam. I should have noticed it

and removed it (which I have now done).

On 01/03/2011 10:02 AM, j. davis wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Greetings, CH750 list! I have ordered a CH750 kit, hope to receive it soon. I am seriously

 considering the Rotec R2800 radial as an engine to power my 750.



 http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0RotecR2800/R2800.htm



 Opinions?




	




-- 

Regards,  J.



- flying Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- restoring the 'Johnston Special'

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, starting CH750 soon

- http://cleco.ca



+-------------------------------------------------------------+

|  J. Davis, M.Sc.            | (computer science)            |

| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin   | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

+-------------------------------------------------------------+

On the other hand... You have different fingers.

				--- Steven Wright

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