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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: Gascolator

Question,



Is the filter screen on gascolators before or after the sump?

Clint 

Moving to Cameron Park.

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Gascolator

[quote="clint_bazzill(at)hotmail."]Question,



Is the filter screen on gascolators before or after the sump?

Clintï¿½

Moving to Cameron Park.

 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




The screen is after the sump.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: Gascolator

It is the older ACS gascolator, the screen I am using is the finest one they offered.  It is pushed up from the bottom and probably filters before the output.  Would rather have it the other way but if the screen was blocked there would be limited amount of fuel in the sump.  Thanks for the reply.



Clint

Working on 1300 hours.





 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gascolator

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:20:48 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 

 [quote="clint_bazzill(at)hotmail."]Question,

 

 Is the filter screen on gascolators before or after the sump?

 

 

 Clintï¿½

 

 

 Moving to Cameron Park.

  		 	   		    

 > [b]

 

 

 The screen is after the sump.

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325574#325574

 

 

 

 

&========================

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Gascolator

Clint, mine is from Aircraft spruce too.  I bought it about 1999.  The fuel comes into the bowl through the hole in the center of the round screen.  It is designed this way so any debris will be seen when a sample is taken from the drain on the bottom of the bowl.  The fuel then goes up through the screen before it continues down stream to the engine.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: Gascolator

The gascolator should be installed at the lowest point of the fuel system....  making it the sump.

 

The screen in the gascolator should be of a size small enough to block particles that may affect the fuel pump.  Fuel filters... If you feel  you need one should be between the pump and the carb...  fuel filters ( true filters ) should not be used upstream of the pumps.  If large commercial airliners and small GA planes don’t have filtration upstream of pumps and it is actually illegal to install such filtration, then why is it that The ‘Fox needs it?

 

I know I’m in for another roasting on this one but I feel my training holds true for this.  

 

I really don’t see the advantage of glass case filters.  If you give up flying the plane to eyeball the filters and find the fuel is not flowing then you have to ask the question just what is the engine running on?  If your engine quits and you then notice the fuel is not flowing through the filters what does it do to alleviate the problem?

 

Noel

 

 

 

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill

Sent: January 3, 2011 4:21 PM

To: Kitfox list

Subject: Gascolator

 

Question,

 



Is the filter screen on gascolators before or after the sump?



 



Clint 



 



Moving to Cameron Park.

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Av8r3400

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Gascolator

Excellent point, Noel. No roast from me.

_________________
Thanks,
Av8r3400

Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
YouTube Videos

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: Gascolator

On 1/4/2011 8:02 PM, Noel R.C. Loveys wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		     

The screen in the gascolator should be of a size small enough to block particles that may affect the fuel pump.  Fuel filters... If you feel  you need one should be between the pump and the carb...  fuel filters ( true filters ) should not be used upstream of the pumps.  If large commercial airliners and small GA planes don’t have filtration upstream of pumps and it is actually illegal to install such filtration, then why is it that The ‘Fox needs it?   

    

I know I’m in for another roasting on this one but I feel my training holds true for this.   	
 How about a mild butt-warming? I know filtration wants to be downstream of the pump, but the 2-stroke Mikuni pulse pump puts out pathetic pressure (2-4 psi) and is designed to provide that pressure direct to the carbs. Not only that, but any particulates in the fuel will cause the pump to fail anyway. So I put the filter at the highest pressure spot I could, which is at the bottom of the fuel system where I have a potential 1-2  psi of head pressure to push fuel through. Why not install more filters and an electric fuel pump? Simplicity. KISS. Less stuff to fail. 

 

 What if the filter clogs? Well, I try to keep my fuel clean, use a HUGE gascolator, (the header tank,) sump religiously, and use a HUGE fuel filter, situated so any heavy particulates sink away from the filter and any light ones float away. I also clean it once a year. As the falling man said as he passed the 30th floor, "Been great so far!"

 

 Guy Buchanan

 Ramona, CA

 Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

 

 

    [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

kitfox555(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: Gascolator

Noel    the way I see it, when you don't have the money for fuel pressure Gage you don't know what is going on when it stop running , if it was fuel or what . What I like is to see that fuel moving knowing if it stops I have 1.5 gallon in header tank to land on , or must lean the  plane so it will flow. With my experience with the big glass filters the fuel flow fast through them so when it slows that tells me to check filters or look somewhere else for problems. At our airport we take off of a cliff with about 1200 drop and not much to land on down there, so I feel better when I glance over and see the fuel going fast. So some of us poorer people run what ever works for us but I sure appreciate your opinion on all you input to the list  



 Jerry Evans 

 KitfoxII

 Magalia Calif.

 N582'er'

 kitfox 555

--- On Tue, 1/4/11, Noel R.C. Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Noel R.C. Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>

Subject: RE: Gascolator

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 8:02 PM



     

The gascolator should be installed at the lowest point of the fuel system....  making it the sump.

 

 

 

The screen in the gascolator should be of a size small enough to block particles that may affect the fuel pump.  Fuel filters... If you feel  you need one should be between the pump and the carb...  fuel filters ( true filters ) should not be used upstream of the pumps.  If large commercial airliners and small GA planes donâ€™t have filtration upstream of pumps and it is actually illegal to install such filtration, then why is it that The â€˜Fox needs it?

 

 

 

I know Iâ€™m in for another roasting on this one but I feel my training holds true for this.  

 

 

 

I really donâ€™t see the advantage of glass case filters.  If you give up flying the plane to eyeball the filters and find the fuel is not flowing then you have to ask the question just what is the engine running on?  If your engine quits and you then notice the fuel is not flowing through the filters what does it do to alleviate the problem?

 

 

 

Noel

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill

Sent: January 3, 2011 4:21 PM

To: Kitfox list

Subject: Gascolator

 

 

 

Question,

  

 



  

Is the filter screen on gascolators before or after the sump?



  

 



  

Clint 



  

 



  

Moving to Cameron Park.



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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: Gascolator

Noel,

  

 I want to reply but this is no roast as experimental  means we can do pretty much what we want to do just because, and influencing  others to do it my way is not particularly in my agenda, so everyone  just take this as one man's opinion.  (One maybe  tiny slice of prime rib here though.  If a Kitfox  is challenging enough to fly, that glancing at a glass filter from  time to time is inherently risky, I don't think the problem is in the fuel  system). 

  

 Personally, I like the glass filters.  As I  mentioned before, I will occasionally look at them to see what is happening  there.    In our tanks which differ from the certified and  commercial fleets by being fiberglass there are a number of variables we  have, that they don't have.  Among others, two come immediately to  mind.  There have been Kreem delamination reports and instances reported of  fuel not passing through (above he header tank) glass filters even while they  appeared clean.  The first has been discussed almost forever.  The  culprit on the second, was very small invisible glass fibers blocking the filter  while giving no visible  indication of a problem.  There was also  the occasion when one builder reported that he would have a  rough running engine after a run of several minutes.  Then after a  short period, he could restart, but in about the same interval, the engine  would begin running rough again - and again.  He finally found that there  was a mass of glass fibers in the bowl of the gascolator and on shut down, they  would apparently drop to the bottom of the bowl.  Then after fuel movement  stirred up the fibers again during an engine run, they would get caught in the  screen again and obstruct fuel flow.  

  

 During one annual, I was removing the finger strainers  for examination and found on the bottom of the tank, just inside the finger  strainer port, a jagged piece of black rubber about the size of a pinkie  fingernail.  It was the perfect size to  block the outlet if I had  opted to remove the finger strainers as some had done - but that is another  story.  This was obviously introduced into the tank  during fueling.  I ran primarily Mogas and without exception when  fueling at home, I used a Mr. Filter so there was no way  I introduced that chunk of rubber into the tank.  Like most, on  long trips  I used  Avgas purchased along the way and most  likely got the rubber as a free gift somewhere at a fuel stop.    The point I would make here, is that even though the Avgas is filtered and  the FBOs would swear that there is no way it could happen, it did, and by the  shape of the chunk, I would guess that during maintenance of the pump  and a hose change, a  chunk of hose was likely cut off when they  cut the hose to length or as it was pushed over a barb fitting.  FYI,  I worked for a  time as a fueler at KSFO fueling very large commercial  airliners - B-727 to B-747 (400,000 lbs of fuel).  Those trucks that park  under the wings of the airplanes with hoses running from the ground to the truck  and then to the fuel tanks in the wings are mostly filters.  Yes, they are  pumps, but 90% of what you see are a series of very efficient,  progressive, high volume filters.   That is essentially the  filter that is inline before the airplane's fuel pumps.

  

 Back to the glass filters, I used a low fuel indicator  of my own design.  I tested it once in the real world as I dropped from  11,000 ft. crossing the Sierras to my pattern altitude - 2300 ft.  The  tanks were at about five gallons each and the nose down attitude gave a great  opportunity to unport the aft positioned tank outlets, and watch as events  unfolded (and confirm, incidentally, that the basic fuel system design in the  Kitfox does work).  It confirmed my expectations, as I  watched the fuel level drop in the transparent vent line to the level of  the filters,  then it visibly dropped in the the filters as well, then  continued to drop in the vent line until it triggered the low fuel  indicator.  By actually seeing the fuel I knew exactly what was transpiring  second by second.  Otherwise, I would have been relying on mechanical  or electronic sensors, and we all know how reliable these things can be.   Remember the preflight check list item - Visibly check fuel  level?  I do understand the wisdom in visually checking the fuel  level before flight, but struggle with the concept that being able to  visually check the fuel flowing during flight introduces flight  risks.

  

 I am building again and just about the point where I  will be installing the plumbing and wiring and will do again what 900 hours told  me I "liked" in the old airplane and not doing this time, what I  didn't.   Glass filters in view when in flight - liked.   Gascolator - didn't like,  will go with those that consider the low mounted  header tank an effective gascolator.  Electric fuel pump just below the  header tank[ - liked.  I think it saved my bacon once.  Of course,  other opinions may vary.

  

 Lowell

  

  

   From: Noel R.C. Loveys (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca) 

 Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 8:02 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Gascolator

 



  

The gascolator should be  installed at the lowest point of the fuel system....  making it the  sump. 

  

The screen in the gascolator  should be of a size small enough to block particles that may affect the fuel  pump.  Fuel filters... If you feel  you need one should be between the  pump and the carb...  fuel filters ( true filters ) should not be used  upstream of the pumps.  If large commercial airliners and small GA planes  don’t have filtration upstream of pumps and it is actually illegal to install  such filtration, then why is it that The ‘Fox needs it? 

  

I know I’m in for another  roasting on this one but I feel my training holds true for this.    

  

I really don’t see the  advantage of glass case filters.  If you give up flying the plane to  eyeball the filters and find the fuel is not flowing then you have to ask the  question just what is the engine running on?  If your engine quits and you  then notice the fuel is not flowing through the filters what does it do to  alleviate the problem? 

  

Noel 

  

  

    

From:  owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint  Bazzill

Sent: January 3, 2011 4:21 PM

To: Kitfox  list

Subject: Kitfox-List:  Gascolator



 

  

Question,  

 

  

Is the filter screen  on gascolators before or after the sump?

  

 

  

Clint 

  

 

  

Moving to Cameron  Park.

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lowandslow1

Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 1

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Gascolator

Just as a note.  I have worked on numerous aircraft (pistons/turboprops/turbines- large, small, military) that have filters after pumps and before the FCU fuel control unit (carbs/throttle bodies/fuel injection systems).  There is no reason a filter cannot be installed after the gascolator.  It needs to be properly shielded from heat or blast cooled, just as your gascolator should be.  Several manufacturer's of fuel control units recommend a filter of a certain micron size before fuel enters their unit. Having a serviceable filter forward of the firewall and not in the cabin area is a good idea.  These filters are sometimes referred to as "last chance" filters that remove the smallest of particles that could clog one of the metering ports before entering the FCU.  If the filter is after a pump (ie boost) the filter used should be rated to handle the psi from the pump.  Think of it this way: Finger strainer- big chunks, gascolator- small chunks, final filter "last chance"- tiny chunks, then into the engine driven pump or FCU.  Some models even have a filter on the fuel inlet to the FCU from the engine driven pump.

PS.All of these filters need to be on a regular inspection schedule so they can be checked for debris.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: Gascolator

I agree...and 4 (out of 5) of mine are right in plain sight while I'm  

flying the plane. Being that they have glass bodies makes this very  

simple to do.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062

Sensenich 62"x 55.5 Wood (winter) until the Prince prop arrives

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying...1075+ hrs (since 3-27-2006)

On Jan 6, 2011, at 4:53 PM, lowandslow1 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <lowandslow1(at)hotmail.com>



 Just as a note.  I have worked on numerous aircraft (pistons/ 

 turboprops/turbines- large, small, military) that have filters  

 after pumps and before the FCU fuel control unit (carbs/throttle  

 bodies/fuel injection systems).  There is no reason a filter cannot  

 be installed after the gascolator.  It needs to be properly  

 shielded from heat or blast cooled, just as your gascolator should  

 be.  Several manufacturer's of fuel control units recommend a  

 filter of a certain micron size before fuel enters their unit.  

 Having a serviceable filter forward of the firewall and not in the  

 cabin area is a good idea.  These filters are sometimes referred to  

 as "last chance" filters that remove the smallest of particles that  

 could clog one of the metering ports before entering the FCU.  If  

 the filter is after a pump (ie boost) the filter used should be  

 rated to handle the psi from the pump.  Think of it this way:  

 Finger strainer- big chunks, gascolator- small chunks, final filter  

 "last chance"- ti!

  ny chunks, then into the engine driven pump or FCU.  Some models  

 even have a filter on the fuel inlet to the FCU from the engine  

 driven pump.

 PS.All of these filters need to be on a regular inspection schedule  

 so they can be checked for debris.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Gascolator

A fuel filter represents a pressure drop in the system. With the filter behind the pump, the pump is attempting to pull fuel through the filter. This increases the possibility of vapor lock with the decreased pressure between the fuel pump and filter. On the other hand, with the filter in front of the pump, fuel pressure between the pump and filter is increased, decreasing the possibility of vapor lock. 



In general, fuel pumps should be as close to the fuel source as possible because pumps are better at pushing fuel than pulling it. (Air will expand when fuel/air bubbles are being pulled more than gasoline will expand. You can try this yourself with a Facet fuel pump on the bench - you may get 30 GPH of fuel at 4 PSI out of it, but you won't get 30 GPH of air at 4 PSI out of it.)



One rationale for putting the filter behind the pump is that if the filter leaks or a connection to the filter leaks, then fuel just dribbles out instead of spraying out. I think the idea is to make sure the fuel system is maintained so it is intact. 



With either arrangement, there are risks and benefits. It's just a matter of what factor you assign to all of them. 



Mike Perkins

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: Gascolator

The screen should filter the fuel leaving the gascolator.  That way if there is any dirt in the fuel it will show in the gascolator bowl and not be hidden up in the supply line.

 

Noel

 

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill

Sent: January 4, 2011 6:42 PM

To: Kitfox list

Subject: RE: Re: Gascolator

 

It is the older ACS gascolator, the screen I am using is the finest one they offered.  It is pushed up from the bottom and probably filters before the output.  Would rather have it the other way but if the screen was blocked there would be limited amount of fuel in the sump.  Thanks for the reply.

 



Clint



 



Working on 1300 hours.



 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Gascolator

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:20:48 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 

 [quote="clint_bazzill(at)hotmail."]Question,

 

 Is the filter screen on gascolators before or after the sump?

 

 

 Clintï¿½

 

 

 Moving to Cameron Park.

 

 > 

 

 

 The screen is after the sump.

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325574#325574

 

 

 

 

&========================
	




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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: Gascolator

I think I've accomplished what I wanted when I made my first post on the

subject and that is to get everyone to consider the pros and cons of

filters, locations, pumps etc.  I heartily agree that the best you can ever

do is what feels best for you.  My considerations, flying conditions etc

will probably never be the same as everyone else's and previous training

makes me want to do things in a particular manner.



Thanks for all the replies



I have the prop fitted now on the 912 install that leaves me with one

connection for the oil, two fittings for the fuel, wiring and the controls.

Then I can finish the mods to my standard cowl and get back in the air.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: Gascolator

One of the things I’ve gotten out of this list is a real liking for a header tank which can double as a gascolator... a great big place for water and precipitate to sink out of the way and totally safe.

 

My header, in behind the panel feeds fron the top and fuel flows out about an inch above the bottom but there is no way drain it as a sump...  I often wonder how much crap could be in that tank.

 

Noel

 

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan

Sent: January 5, 2011 4:07 PM

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Gascolator

 

On 1/4/2011 8:02 PM, Noel R.C. Loveys wrote: 

The screen in the gascolator should be of a size small enough to block particles that may affect the fuel pump.  Fuel filters... If you feel  you need one should be between the pump and the carb...  fuel filters ( true filters ) should not be used upstream of the pumps.  If large commercial airliners and small GA planes don’t have filtration upstream of pumps and it is actually illegal to install such filtration, then why is it that The ‘Fox needs it?

 

I know I’m in for another roasting on this one but I feel my training holds true for this.  

How about a mild butt-warming? I know filtration wants to be downstream of the pump, but the 2-stroke Mikuni pulse pump puts out pathetic pressure (2-4 psi) and is designed to provide that pressure direct to the carbs. Not only that, but any particulates in the fuel will cause the pump to fail anyway. So I put the filter at the highest pressure spot I could, which is at the bottom of the fuel system where I have a potential 1-2  psi of head pressure to push fuel through. Why not install more filters and an electric fuel pump? Simplicity. KISS. Less stuff to fail. 



What if the filter clogs? Well, I try to keep my fuel clean, use a HUGE gascolator, (the header tank,) sump religiously, and use a HUGE fuel filter, situated so any heavy particulates sink away from the filter and any light ones float away. I also clean it once a year. As the falling man said as he passed the 30th floor, "Been great so far!"



Guy Buchanan

Ramona, CA

Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded



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		   [/b]http://forums.matronics.com[/url]         - List Contribution Web generous nbsp;                        --> http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] 	


  [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:46 am Post subject: Gascolator

The (apparently) later model header tank has a provision in the  

bottom for a quick-drain. That is where I sump it to check for said  

crap, but rarely finding anything but clean 100LL.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062

Sensenich 62"x 55.5 Wood (winter) until the Prince prop arrives

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying...1075+ hrs (since 3-27-2006)





On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:41 PM, Noel R.C. Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   One of the things I’ve gotten out of this list is a real liking for  

 a header tank which can double as a gascolator... a great big place  

 for water and precipitate to sink out of the way and totally safe.



 My header, in behind the panel feeds fron the top and fuel flows  

 out about an inch above the bottom but there is no way drain it as  

 a sump...  I often wonder how much crap could be in that tank.



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: Gascolator

Noel,



Not to delay the first flight after the engine change, but the Rans Folks 

use  plastic wing tanks and use  a series of metal rings plates and gaskets 

(actually oval shaped) to provide leakproof ports for the fuel lines.  If 

you could get to the bottom of your header tank easily, you could use the 

same idea for a quickdrain fitting.  Then again, I envy your time frame as I 

have lots more than you have do to get back into the air.  Instrument panel 

today.



Lowell

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 3:43 AM

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Gascolator



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The (apparently) later model header tank has a provision in the  bottom 

 for a quick-drain. That is where I sump it to check for said  crap, but 

 rarely finding anything but clean 100LL.



 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062

 Sensenich 62"x 55.5 Wood (winter) until the Prince prop arrives

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying...1075+ hrs (since 3-27-2006)





 On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:41 PM, Noel R.C. Loveys wrote:



> One of the things I’ve gotten out of this list is a real liking for  a 

> header tank which can double as a gascolator... a great big place  for 

> water and precipitate to sink out of the way and totally safe.

>

> My header, in behind the panel feeds fron the top and fuel flows  out 

> about an inch above the bottom but there is no way drain it as  a sump... 

> I often wonder how much crap could be in that tank.

>

> Noel

VIXEN

Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 35

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Gascolator

Very interesting discussion. I have a model 5 Vixen/912UL that I imported last year. To meet Transport Canada regulations I installed a gascolator on the lowest point on the firewall ( had to cut a small hole in the lower cowl) and I removed the inline filter that was installed between the carbs and pump. Actually my inspector said inline filters (especially ones with paper cartridges) would not be approved.Apparently if moisture gets into the paper if swells and restricts the flow.  Anyway I have only 80 hours of use (210 TSN) but have yet to find any debris or water either at the gascolator, header tank or wing tanks (drains on all). I did not like the filter arrangement after the pump because of fire hazard should a leak ever occur under pressure. I always use mogas and strain through a chamois.Have not purchased fuel straight from the hose yet!!  This arrangement seems to work fine so far. Hope it continues.

Don

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Gascolator

Noel, I have that same header tank on my III and am not a huge fan of it either.  I have mentioned in earlier posts that I am going to re-do the fuel system in my Fox once I get home and that is one of the things I am going to change.  I am just now remembering that I did not put that on the list of things that I JUST ordered from the McBeans, I wonder if I can get to them before they ship.



To those that have the header behind the seat and use this as the lowest point in the system; How low do you have it on the seat?  For those of you that use this tank as the "gascolator", how do you get your sample, do you have it close to the floor so you can get a fuel sample from under the aircraft or do you have to reach behind the seat and risk a spill in the tail?  Do you then run the fuel lines under the doors?  I think this may be how I would like to set mine up.  Sump through the bottom fabric and fuel under the door, I already have a gascolator on the firewall so I may just leave that one.  Ponder, ponder, ponder.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Av8r3400

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Gascolator

Both of my IV's have a header tank behind the seat.



My flying model 1050 has a custom aluminum tank that has a fitting on the bottom, connected to an aluminum line going to a drain valve mounted to a hard point in the belly of the plane just behind the pilot's position.  ( I think intended to mount the elt antenna)



My Classic IV has the factory poly tank which had a valve mounted right to it on the bottom.  Then a large tube down to the fabric.  The tube looked to me like a piece of automotive radiator hose, large enough to fit the sample container inside of it to reach up to the valve.  I didn't like the look or operation of this, so I will be doing something similar to my other plane, "remote mounting" the valve on the belly of the plane.

_________________
Thanks,
Av8r3400

Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
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