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Paint Shop Blues
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cpayne(at)joimail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Visited a local paint shop today for a quote. I do the dis-assembly/re-assembly, stripping is done already. Quote was $9500 for 9 layer base coat/clear coat. My knees got weak and I had to grab the pitot tube for support.

  

 The shop owner whipped out pics of the big-iron warbirds and big names he has painted for. Suddenly I felt a communication gap. My line was that this ain't no historic treasure, nobody will ever hand a Commie airplane Best Warbird and I'm just a poor boy. Message lost in translation.

  

 I'd like to hear about some alternatives and other experiences, I'm willing to travel if value is there. Good automotive paint will do just fine. This ain't no P-51.

  

  

 Craig Payne

talew(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Crieg,

 I had my airplane painted at Arcadia for 5K and the  controls redone for

 2k. Gary Pope used the same facility and seemed to be  satisfied. Like you, I had stripped my plane and then removed the control  surfaces at their facility, and then reinstalled them after they  finished, I also did all of the colored trim later at home after they  had finished. I used PPG uruthane single coat (easy to touch  up) and it has no  cracks on the control surfaces after 4 years.

 If you want their number contact me off list, it's in my  hangar.

 Terry Lewis

 Original Message ----- 

  	  Quote: 	
		     From:    Craig Payne (cpayne(at)joimail.com)    

   To: yak-list (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 8:37 PM

   Subject: Paint Shop Blues

   



   

   Visited a local paint shop today for a quote. I do the    dis-assembly/re-assembly, stripping is done already. Quote was $9500 for 9    layer base coat/clear coat. My knees got weak and I had to grab the pitot tube    for support.

    

   The shop owner whipped out pics of the big-iron warbirds and big names he    has painted for. Suddenly I felt a communication gap. My line was that this    ain't no historic treasure, nobody will ever hand a Commie airplane Best    Warbird and I'm just a poor boy. Message lost in translation.

    

   I'd like to hear about some alternatives and other experiences, I'm    willing to travel if value is there. Good automotive paint will do just fine.    This ain't no P-51.

    

    

   Craig Payne

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Craig,

 Tri D at Wetumpka, Al (08A). 334-285-5456. Richard does good work. He is over extended because of his popularity/quality. He will test your patience but he is reasonable. Talk to Dav Harcort about his work. He had his YAK done by him.

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

N13472(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

In a message dated 5/1/2006 5:40:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  cpayne(at)joimail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Visited a local paint shop today for a quote. I do the    dis-assembly/re-assembly, stripping is done already. Quote was $9500 for 9    layer base coat/clear coat. My knees got weak and I had to grab the pitot tube    for support.

    

	


 

 Craig, from my  resent experience $9500 for that type paint job sounds  like a good price.

 a recent quote out here on the west coast area for a good three color and  clear coat was

 12K   

 Tom Elliott  

CJ-6 NX63727

Sandy Valley  NV

3L2

702-723-1223

JBernier(at)dart.org
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Craig,

I found a local automotive painter to do the job for $2000 in my hanger. Be certain to use self etching primer. Auto paint works fine. Build scaffolding or something, to paint over the center section, because that area came out thin on mine due to accessability. Solve the accessibility first for all areas. You could do it your self. (Next time I will.) It is a war bird, for me, no perfection required. Just before painting, wipe the plane down with a good solvent in order to remove any oils.

10 k is 8 k to much unless you want perfection. On the other side of the coin, you may think of 10 k as an investment. But I want to show the plane to the public, let them touch it, look inside. If I find a scratch afterward, well, so what. If I get oil on the belly, well, so what. And my mantle over the fireplace is to small to show it safely.

Just my two cents.

Jim B       



 	  Quote: 	
		  >> cpayne(at)joimail.com 05/01/06 7:37 PM >>>

Visited a local paint shop today for a quote. I do the dis-assembly/re-assembly, stripping is done already. Quote was $9500 for 9 layer base coat/clear coat. My knees got weak and I had to grab the pitot tube for support.
	




The shop owner whipped out pics of the big-iron warbirds and big names he has painted for. Suddenly I felt a communication gap. My line was that this ain't no historic treasure, nobody will ever hand a Commie airplane Best Warbird and I'm just a poor boy. Message lost in translation.



I'd like to hear about some alternatives and other experiences, I'm willing to travel if value is there. Good automotive paint will do just fine. This ain't no P-51.

Craig Payne

coolade(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

CRAIG-- There are three excellent paint shops in Mena Arkansas one of 

which will do a nice job for around $4,000.

On May 1, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Craig Payne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Visited a local paint shop today for a quote. I do the 

 dis-assembly/re-assembly, stripping is done already. Quote was $9500 

 for 9 layer base coat/clear coat. My knees got weak and I had to grab 

 the pitot tube for support.

  

 The shop owner whipped out pics of the big-iron warbirds and big names 

 he has painted for. Suddenly I felt a communication gap. My line was 

 that this ain't no historic treasure, nobody will ever hand a Commie 

 airplane Best Warbird and I'm just a poor boy. Message lost in 

 translation.

  

 I'd like to hear about some alternatives and other experiences, I'm 

 willing to travel if value is there. Good automotive paint will do 

 just fine. This ain't no P-51.

  

  

 Craig Payne

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Paint Shop Blues

A place here in Ohio will do it for 9K and all I do is drop it off. A total of 5 colors used with some detail work as well. I have a -50 which is a bit smaller.

Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Jim, Craig & all you painters, 

  

 Just some wisdom that I gleaned while looking for a  good CJ and would like to pass along. An excellent CJ mechanic took one apart  for me and showed me extensive corrosion caused by the failure to do multiple  washings after removing an old paint job with solvent. The metal inside,  including otherwise good anodized metal was turning to a white powder and  you could break end pieces of rivets off with a fingernail.  

  

 According to my mechanic, it takes about eight  to ten good and thorough wash downs to make certain that all of the solvent is  gone, otherwise it sits there and corrodes everything over time. He also takes  much of the aircraft skin apart and lays it flat to do this after stripping, but  that's up to you guys. Evidently, it's more than "just a pretty  face".  

  

 Y'all take care and happy painting -  Val

cgalley(at)qcbc.org
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Valkyre.

  

 I was going to let this one pass by but your mechanic is  not quite correct.  That white powdery stuff is intergranular  corrosion.  It might be from the stripper that is alkaline but most likely  from moisture.  Many of the aluminum alloys have other metals like  copper.  The copper and aluminum set up a galvanic reaction in the presence  of water.  The stripper might take away the paint or oily  protection but it is the moisture that does the dirty work. Getting it  clean and dry is the most important thing.   Getting the  residual alkaline stripper cleaned off is very important, but it is the moisture  after the paint protection is removed that does the dirty work.

  

 Cy Galley

EAA Safety Programs Editor

Always looking  for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot

 [quote]   ---

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Paint Shop Blues

My airplane was painted here in the states (in someones hangar) and the individual simply took off some of the inspection panels(not all and some were NEVER off the airplane since leaving the FSU) and sprayed! In fact, they painted the elevator cable pulley to the point where it froze in place and damaged the elevator cable itself. 



Let the pro's do the painting.....

Scooter

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 155

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Paint Shop Blues

I'm in the "not a show plane" club and the "too poor to pay somebody" club also.  I'd love to hear from someone who did it on the cheap.  What kind of paint (brand and type) did you use on the metal and fabric parts of the aircraft and how much.  I've seen some nice do-it-yerself paint jobs on yaks and cjs (not to mention all the homebuilts with homespun paint).

ben(at)designselect.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

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ben(at)designselect.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Sorry about the misfire...



	As a DYI guy, I have a thought or two on the matter.  First,

removing the Soviet paint is a lot of no fun.  I used a great deal of

Aircraft Remover to bubble the old bad paint.  I then scraped the bulk of

the bubbled stuff away with a plastic spatula.  Using more and more Aircraft

Remover, I was reduced to wiping away the balance of the old, bad paint.  If

you hit the striper/paint with water, even with high pressure, the mix

solidifies and does not come off.  That be terrible BAD



	I used some sort of DuPont self-etching epoxy primer that shot well.

I also used the poly Fiber covering system with Aerothane paint on the metal

and the fabric.  I was not happy with the paint in general.  The black was

crystallized, several batches of the stuff.  The white on the fabric control

surfaces yellowed rather badly, even given the liberal use of the UV spray.

I recently repainted the fabric areas with white from Superflight.  I was

very happy with the Superflight product.



	Stripping and painting one of these things is a great lot of work,

but my results were very good.  That is, I think my machine looks

sufficiently deluxe, even from five feet.  



Good Luck,



Marsh



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JBernier(at)dart.org
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

In adding to Marsh's comments, after you have scraped off all that you can, put on a final coat of Remover and rub the entire surface with Scotch Brite. It will get the remaining paint off and prepare the surface. The red Scotch Brite works great.

When choosing your paint, stick to a proven product that works together. One possibility would be NAPA. They can walk you through the whole process. Talk to local auto painters. They have made the mistakes already with various products. The self etching primer is a must. After a water rinse, let it dry for a week. You want all of the water out of the rivet areas and seams. Using someone's system will give you a more predictable result.

There are pros and cons on painting it apart or together. 

Before painting, go through a dry run with an empty gun to see the difficulty in reaching certain areas. You have to spray perpendicular to the surface with a set distance away. You may have to get creative.

If you use a 2 part paint, and I would suggest to, give yourself adequate time for spray and cleanup when mixing in your hardener. Stick to the chart, more is not better. 

Painting isn't hard, prep is a bit-h. Do it once.

Jim     



 	  Quote: 	
		  >> ben(at)designselect.net 05/03/06 1:48 PM >>>

	Sorry about the misfire...
	




	As a DYI guy, I have a thought or two on the matter.  First,

removing the Soviet paint is a lot of no fun.  I used a great deal of

Aircraft Remover to bubble the old bad paint.  I then scraped the bulk of

the bubbled stuff away with a plastic spatula.  Using more and more Aircraft

Remover, I was reduced to wiping away the balance of the old, bad paint.  If

you hit the striper/paint with water, even with high pressure, the mix

solidifies and does not come off.  That be terrible BAD



	I used some sort of DuPont self-etching epoxy primer that shot well.

I also used the poly Fiber covering system with Aerothane paint on the metal

and the fabric.  I was not happy with the paint in general.  The black was

crystallized, several batches of the stuff.  The white on the fabric control

surfaces yellowed rather badly, even given the liberal use of the UV spray.

I recently repainted the fabric areas with white from Superflight.  I was

very happy with the Superflight product.



	Stripping and painting one of these things is a great lot of work,

but my results were very good.  That is, I think my machine looks

sufficiently deluxe, even from five feet.  



Good Luck,



Marsh



--

ben(at)designselect.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Ahh yes, Scotchbright Red.  I came to love, then loathe the stuff.



Marsh



--

cgalley(at)qcbc.org
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

If you use two part get a remote air rig so you don't have to look at your 

airplane from the funeral home window.



Cy Galley

EAA Safety Programs Editor

Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot

---

Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Thanks Cy, and no need to let it pass. This is all  about trying to put out accurate information to the list. On my mechanics  behalf... he did also show me what he called galvanic corrosion as well where  two dissimilar metals had been used and set up a chemical catalyst type  of  corrosive process.

  

 It's always that darned moisture though isn't  it? One question... "If the stripper is still there in a dry form, do it's  corrosive properties re-activate when water is present, or are they lost  perminently when it dries on metal?"

  

 - Valkyrie

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Val,

 Moisture in SLC?  I didn't think people in SLC even knew  how to spell moisture!  

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:28 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Dennis.. It's been raining here for TWO days, but it's a DRY rain. - Val

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: Paint Shop Blues

Outstanding!  Come to think of it, those two  days must be your entire "rainy season"!  -)

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

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