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Jimmy Young
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX
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 Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: throttle cable splitter failure |
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Kolb List,
Yesterday afternoon I took my Firestar out of the hangar for a good cleaning and had plans for a short flight. After a good pre-flight check I took off to the south. I was full throttle and about 400' agl when the engine went to idle. By the time I determined my throttle cable had broken, a 180 turn to the field was not an option so I picked an opening in a field straight ahead and landed.
After a walk to the highway and a couple of calls, I had some help show up. We got the plane out by folding her up and setting the tail on the truckbed for the ride back to the airport.
I discovered the main throttle cable had not broken, but the soldered ferrule on the end of the main cable inside the splitter had failed.
After seeing how the cable splitter works, (I had never opened one up before this) I am interested if anyone else on the Kolb list has ever had this happen? It's something you will not catch on a pre-flight.
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Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700 |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: throttle cable splitter failure |
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Jimmy, I take it that the ferrule slipped right off the cable. Was the ferrule soldered, swedged, or molded? If it was soldered, can you tell if it's a cold solder joint? Do you know who supplied them?
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Jimmy Young <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)>
Kolb List,
Yesterday afternoon I took my Firestar out of the hangar for a good cleaning and had plans for a short flight. After a good pre-flight check I took off to the south. I was full throttle and about 400' agl when the engine went to idle. By the time I determined my throttle cable had broken, a 180 turn to the field was not an option so I picked an opening in a field straight ahead and landed.
After a walk to the highway and a couple of calls, I had some help show up. We got the plane out by folding her up and setting the tail on the truckbed for the ride back to the airport.
I discovered the main throttle cable had not broken, but the soldered ferrule on the end of the main cable inside the splitter had failed.
After seeing how the cable splitter works, (I had never opened one up before this) I am interested if anyone else on the Kolb list has ever had this happen? It's something you will not catch on a pre-flight.
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326058#326058
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Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
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If you make up your own cables, you can easily guarantee that the cables will not pull out of the swedge. There is a countersunk end on the swedge, push the cable through so that the countersunk end is at the cable end. Push about 3/32" of cable through and then rat tail it severely with a small tool, and then pull it back in as far as it will go, it should be physically impossible to pull it through. If that is the case, then solder it.
The attached pictures ought to give you the idea.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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Jimmy Young
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:38 am Post subject: Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
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List,
I think my problem was I did not have my throttle stop positioned properly. At full throttle I still had about 3/8" to go to get to the throttle stop, so I've probably been flying around for the past year & a half over-stressing the cable. I'll take car of that.
Rick, The ferrule was soldered. The only kind of soldering I know of is hot, don't know what cold soldered is. Guess I should learn though.
Rev. Pike, thanks for the photos and tip. I'll do that as well.
Frank Goodnight suggested I set the throttle cable at the carbs to go to full throttle upon any cable failure and explained how to do it, probably will do that too.
Thanks for the help-
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700 |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:57 am Post subject: throttle cable splitter failure |
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Jimmy, A cold solder joint is a defective one. Instead of bright and shiny, the solder looks dull and leaden.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Jimmy Young <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)>
List,
I think my problem was I did not have my throttle stop positioned properly. At full throttle I still had about 3/8" to go to get to the throttle stop, so I've probably been flying around for the past year & a half over-stressing the cable. I'll take car of that.
Rick, The ferrule was soldered. The only kind of soldering I know of is hot, don't know what cold soldered is. Guess I should learn though.
Rev. Pike, thanks for the photos and tip. I'll do that as well.
Frank Goodnight suggested I set the throttle cable at the carbs to go to full throttle upon any cable failure and explained how to do it, probably will do that too.
Thanks for the help-
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326123#326123
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
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le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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George Alexander
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
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Without trying to refute what some of our learned colleagues have said about soldering cable ends.......
For another view, here is the contents of a post April 2006:
George Alexander wrote:
| Quote: | MAY BE A DUPLICATE RESPONSE... but anyway
Although nico sleeves weren't involved, from a personal experience, I would like to support what Ted said about heating the cable.
In my case, the throttle cable was heated and solder applied to keep it from slipping through the connector to the throttle lever. The good news is that it snapped, on the ground, as part of my regular preflight. (Open the throttle to full and close it listening for the infamous "click" of the slides as they return home. They certainly clicked this time when the cable let go and they went home in a hurry!)
On examination, there was noticeable discoloration from the point that was soldered, back about 1". The general consensus, of those that examined it, was that the break was caused by the effect on the cable of the heat application. (The failure may have been accelerated by the humid conditions here in FL.) The cable actually rusted through. Miffed that I didn't see the rust before it broke. Some of the discoloration/rust protruded from the connector enough to be seen. Conceptually a good idea, with not so good results. |
tc1917(at)hughes.net wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to add something to the 'solder the end of the cable to keep it
from slipping through the nico' discussion.
<<<<SNIP>>>>
If you heat a steel/SS cable even to solder it, it seems to lose its ability to flex and will become brittle and break upon bending. |
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_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net |
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by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:41 pm Post subject: throttle cable splitter failure |
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After seeing how the cable splitter works, (I had never opened one up before this) I am interested if anyone else on the Kolb list has ever had this happen? It's something you will not catch on a pre-flight.
--------
the best prevention for this happening is to have a throtle quadrant stop,, adjusted so the cable can't be over tight when pulled to idle for the 912's or WOT on the 2 strokes.
boyd young
mkiii
[quote][b]
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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: throttle cable splitter failure |
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Hi George,
I believe accepted procedure is to dip the cable in molten solder rather than heating the cable.
That way the cable never gets over 300 degrees or whatever temp the solder is. I don't think the cable
is affected when it's done this way.I have also had a cable corode untill it broke ( I live near salt water &
the salty air got it) , not visable on even a good preflight only wa to check is to desolder the cable and remove
it from the housing and resolder afterwards---I do it 2 times a year, takes less than an hour, worth it to me.
For what its worth.
Frank Goodnight
From: George Alexander <gtalexander(at)att.net>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 4:28:14 PM
Subject: Re: throttle cable splitter failure
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net (gtalexander(at)att.net)>
Without trying to refute what some of our learned colleagues have said about soldering cable ends.......
For another view, here is the contents of a post April 2006:
George Alexander wrote:
| Quote: | MAY BE A DUPLICATE RESPONSE... but anyway
Although nico sleeves weren't involved, from a personal experience, I would like to support what Ted said about heating the cable.
In my case, the throttle cable was heated and solder applied to keep it from slipping through the connector to the throttle lever. The good news is that it snapped, on the ground, as part of my regular preflight. (Open the throttle to full and close it listening for the infamous "click" of the slides as they return home. They certainly clicked this time when the cable let go and they went home in a hurry!)
On examination, there was noticeable discoloration from the point that was soldered, back about 1". The general consensus, of those that examined it, was that the break was caused by the effect on the cable of the heat application. (The failure may have been accelerated by the humid conditions here in FL.) The cable actually rusted through. Miffed that I didn't see the rust before it broke. Some of the discoloration/rust protruded from the connector enough to be seen. Conceptually a good idea, with not so good results.
|
tc1917(at)hughes.net wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to add something to the 'solder the end of the cable to keep it
from slipping through the nico' discussion.
If you heat a steel/SS cable even to solder it, it seems to lose its ability to flex and will become brittle and break upon bending.
|
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326148#326148
[quote][b]
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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: throttle cable splitter failure |
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<< Push about 3/32" of cable through and then rat tail it severely with a small tool … then solder it. >>
Jimmy –
The exact thing happened to me a few years ago, on my Mark-3. Throttle cable slipped thru the ferrule. Fortunately for me, on the 912, the carbs spring to full throttle if the cable lets go. This gave me the fortunate opportunity to fly back to my airport, enter the pattern, and shut down the engine on downwind, making for and easy deadstick pattern and landing.
Richard Pike shared the same advice with me (above) at the time , on fixing the cable/ferrule interface. It’s an excellent solution - guaranteed not to ever pull thru again. That’s how I fixed it on my Kolb.
Glad to hear you exercised excellent judgment, and made a safe landing without damage to you or your Firestar.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, 912ul,
Sandia Park, NM
[quote][b]
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