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KenB

Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 3
Location: MI

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Русс п&



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Last edited by KenB on Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:46 pm; edited 3 times in total

mustangsally(at)semo.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

I was looking at that just today. I have some solid rod left from when I 

converted my Challenger to fiberglass gear. The rod I have is just a bit 

smaller than the factory legs. I am not to comfortable about turning the 

fiberglass rod down small enough to fit in the axle cuffs. I would want to 

put larger cuffs on the axles to fit over the fiberglass rod. I may do this 

when I get to that point. I have to either do this or buy new legs. Mine was 

the one that had the leg expoxyed in the sockets.

Jerry

---

Frcole(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

Have not been following this thread but I did play around with gear legs  

some years ago. I bent the original gear during a dead stick landing for fun  

from altitude, at that time I still thought I might be able to thermal the Kolb.  

Just as I was committed to the flare the  grass cutter drove the tractor  

onto the runway and the avoidance was interesting. I commandeered some titanium  

rod for the legs and made new axle sockets. First landing was in front  of a 

crowd at a fly in. Titanium is real springy and I bounced and bounced and  

bounced,  If the plane had been brown they would have thought I was a  Kangaroo. 

Next were steel tapered legs, turned out heavy but usable. I finished  up with 

straight un- tapered 7075 aluminum rod from Wicks. It has been the  perfect 

gear material for me for over 8 years.

Dick C

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Fiberglass Gear Legs

There's a website out there that has alot of Fiberglass rods in alot of sizes

 I can't find it....I got it from somebody on this list...Hauck maybe???



Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN

jstewart(at)inebraska.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

www.mgs4u.com



J.D. Stewart

UltraFun AirSports, LLC

www.ultrafunairsports.com

Titan Aircraft E-mail list

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Titanaircraft/

Challenger E-mail list 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyChallenger/

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 There's a website out there that has alot of Fiberglass rods in 

 alot of sizes

  I can't find it....I got it from somebody on this list...Hauck maybe???

 

 Gotta Fly...

 Mike in MN

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Fiberglass Gear Legs

I found it , but after you go to the address you have to do some digging to get it....Their a "search" box on the left...



http://www.mcmaster.com/



The fiberglass rods aren't very expensive , they have a big range of Dia.

 Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN

mustangsally(at)semo.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberglass-tube-rod.htm  they have the same rod and it 

is about 40% cheaper.

Jerry

---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

Jerry/all,  what is the failure history of the glass rod as gear legs?

-Amount of flex or sag on a heavier ship like a MkIII ?



On my own plane with the stock tapered aluminum there is a small

amount of set after even normal landings which is acceptable to me.

I think the best approach to staying with the aluminum would be to

weld up axle socket fittings with a touch more angle to compensate.

-BB  do not archive



On 30, Apr 2006, at 8:35 AM, Jerry Deckard wrote:



[quote] 

 <mustangsally(at)semo.net>



 http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberglass-tube-rod.htm  they have the same rod 

 and it

 is about 40% cheaper.

 Jerry

 ---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

| I think the best approach to staying with the aluminum would be to

| weld up axle socket fittings with a touch more angle to compensate.

| -BB  do not archive



It has already been done, 15 years ago.



Check out my mkIII and the mkIII that belongs to Dave Piper, Wetumpka, 

AL.  Both fuselages were built by Bro Jim Hauck with his main landing 

gear system.  It uses two 4130 tubes 24" long.  Heat treated to the 

proper RC, in combination with 800X6 Airtracs, we have an excellent 

landing gear system.



Our steel gear legs go back to 1987, a couple months after I flew my 

Firestar for the first time.  Was obvious to me at that time, the 

stock and Twinstar gear legs were not adequate for my style flying and 

especially my landings.



Take care,



john h

hauck's holler, alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

Not meaning to talk behind John's back here as he is off collecting more

iron.  -but,  I was only referring to the little socket fittings the 

axles slip

into.  Think I may weld up a pair next winter.

-BB  do not archive



On 30, Apr 2006, at 9:41 AM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

  | I think the best approach to staying with the aluminum would be to

 | weld up axle socket fittings with a touch more angle to compensate.

 | -BB  do not archive



 It has already been done, 15 years ago.



 Check out my mkIII and the mkIII that belongs to Dave Piper, Wetumpka,

 AL.  Both fuselages were built by Bro Jim Hauck with his main landing

 gear system.  It uses two 4130 tubes 24" long.  Heat treated to the

 proper RC, in combination with 800X6 Airtracs, we have an excellent

 landing gear system.



 Our steel gear legs go back to 1987, a couple months after I flew my

 Firestar for the first time.  Was obvious to me at that time, the

 stock and Twinstar gear legs were not adequate for my style flying and

 especially my landings.



 Take care,



 john h

 hauck's holler, alabama

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Fiberglass Gear Legs

Hi All,



I also did not like the stock Mark III gear legs that taper down from 

1 3/8" to 3/4". Maybe this taper is good when you first learn in a Kolb so if you have a really bad landing day then they will give and not the aircraft frame. 

Butttttt, when you are more profient in landing then I believe these stock legs are a little weak. Six months ago I did weld up new axile cuffs and now I have 7075 aluminum 1 3/8" gear legs that are 1 3/8" from top to bottom. Keep in mind that if you have any severe landings that the legs don't really give much and the shock transmitts to the frame. I have 6.00-6 tires and run 13 psi in them for some shock absorbance. This set up seems to work very well even if you have a hard landing. I guess the term "hard landing" can be somewhat subjective. The welding of the new 

1 3/8" axial cuffs was quite easy. I also extended my legs 4" so it raised my nose some and gave me a slightly wider wheel stance. This made the plane handle very well in landings and on the ground in winds. 



See you at MV 2006



Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

520-574-1080

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

"Roger Lee" wrote: << I also did not like the stock Mark III gear legs that

taper down from 1 3/8" to 3/4". Maybe this taper is good when you first

learn in a Kolb so if you have a really bad landing day then they will give

and not the aircraft frame.  now I have 7075 aluminum 1 3/8" gear legs that

are 1 3/8" from top to bottom. if you have any severe landings the legs

don't really give much and the shock transmits to the frame. See you at MV

2006. Roger Lee >>



Roger, and Kolb Friends -



What you describe here exactly happened to me on the very first landing in

my Mark-III.  (Before Norm L. taught me how to properly land a Kolb!)

Pancaked my Kolb onto the runway from about ten feet up.  It was not funny.

Bent both gear legs beyond straightenability.  But ... the ONLY damage was

the trashed gear legs - no damage at all to the cage.



I am glad I had the stock gear legs.  I was back in the air following $60

spent on a new set of alum gear.  A relatively cheap lesson learned.  And if

it happens again, I'll again use the stock alum gear legs - easy to replace.

Homer designed our Kolbs this way for a good reason - bend the gear instead

of the frame!  



Looking forward to seeing your massive, gnarly gear legs at MV this month!



Dennis Kirby

N93DK, "Magic Bike"

Cedar Crest, NM

Do not archive

John Jung

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Fiberglass Gear Legs

 	  Quote: 	
		  Roger Lee wrote: I also did not like the stock Mark III gear legs that taper down from 1 3/8" to 3/4". 	




Roger and Group,



I'm with you. I think the problem with the aluminum gear legs is that there is too much taper. The area near the wheel, where the diameter is 1" or less is very easy to bend on a hard landing, or off-field landing. I would prefer no taper to the current taper, and I plan to build some with no taper in the furure. If I had the axle sockets, I would be using no-taper now. I suggested this change to TNK, and got the feeling that I wasn't taken seriously. I have seen several Kolbs that had big bends in the gear legs without damaging the cage, so it is my opinion that a straight leg would give enough protection to the cage. I am not restricting my comments to Mark III's.

_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Fiberglass Gear Legs

Hi All,



I talked to TNK too and I actually ordered a set of steal legs from them for my Mark III Classic. I sent them back after I saw how high it lifted the nose and they suggested that I change the angle of incidence on the wing. When I suggested straight aluminum they said that would work and it was about the same strength as the newer steal legs from them. My 1 3/8",  4" longer 7075 straight gear legs work very well. I think the older style tapered legs may have been better suited for the Mark III's when they were lighter and with out the mods like the 912's and other equipment. The tapered legs just didn't hold up well on some fields. 



Just my two cents and I may get some change back on this post.



Roger Lee



16 more days

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

| I'm with you. I think the problem with the aluminum gear legs is 

that there is too much taper.

| --------

| John Jung



John J/Gents and Ladies (I guess):



Ever stop to think that 7075 aluminum rod may not be the best spring 

material in the world.  Just guessing, but I think 7075 is about as 

hard as we can heat treat aluminum.  Please correct me if I am wrong 

because I am only guessing at the above.



Just because Homer Kolb started using solid aluminum rod for main gear 

legs back in the FS and Twinstar days, and TNK still uses the same 

gear legs, with the exception of some newer heat treated 4130 legs, 

does not make aluminum the best application for a spring type main 

gear leg.



I have been using 4130 heat treated tubular gear legs on FS and mkIII 

since 1987.  Still using them on my mkIII with good success.  Yep, 

they are spring steel, heat treated to 48 RC, yet not too hard that 

they will not bend, without breaking, is pranged hard enough.  Yes, I 

have inadvertently tested my gear legs this far.  



Good luck with fiberglass rod legs and aluminum tubing stuffed with 

wood legs.



Ever stop to wonder why automobiles don't use aluminum springs??? 

Probably some auto out there uses them simply because I asked the 

question.  hehehe



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 4:37 am Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

In a message dated 5/4/2006 12:37:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:

Good  luck with fiberglass rod legs and aluminum tubing stuffed with 

wood  legs.



Ever stop to wonder why automobiles don't use aluminum springs???  

Probably some auto out there uses them simply because I asked the  

question.  hehehe



john h

mkIII 



John/All

 

If the fiberglass legs are too springy you can tame them down by putting a  

few layers of Bi directional cloth over them. You need to run the fibers at a  

Bias to the length of the rod. In other words, 45 degrees to the length. I am  

assuming that what is available in rods is unidirectional strands. This will  

also keep the rods from splitting.  

If I was not on floats and needed gearlegs I would probably build my own  

using woven roving strands available from Aircraft Spruce and a simple split  

mold followed up by the bias treatment. You could use a alum gearleg as the plug  

for your mold.

 

C'mon, someone dare me.

 

 

Steve B

Firefly on floats

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs

On May 4, 2006, at 12:36 AM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Ever stop to wonder why automobiles don't use aluminum springs???

 Probably some auto out there uses them simply because I asked the

 question.  hehehe



 john h

 mkIII


	




True,

but there are some automotive  fiberglass springs.

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