Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Doors redux

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: Doors redux

I've been trying to integrate all the various information on the door

construction process for some time. I have the Air Ward hinge

reinforcements. I plan on the iflyrv-10 flush handles, Sean's latch

upgrade and improved strut bracket. Also plan on the McMaster door

seal. What I haven't quite figured out is if any of the modifications

need to be done before bonding the door halves together. I also want

to include whatever amount of insulation I can, recognizing that with

the various indentations and the mechanism there isn't a lot of room

left. Any words of wisdom from those than have blazed the trail would

be appreciated.

Kelly

#40866

allegedly finish kit, lots left to do before using the word finishing.

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: Doors redux

If I was building my doors, with what I know now,  I would put a minimum of 

2-3 layers of  fiberglass MAT around the inside of the doors so they weren't 

so flimsy. That wont take too much space to do.



--

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Doors redux

Kelly, one thing I would add to figure out is a definitive answer as to 

if the iflyrv-10 flush handles work with Sean's new 180 degree kit.  

I've heard of the flush handles working with the 90 degree retro kit, 

but have yet to hear of them installed with a new 180 degree kit.



Anyone out there with flush handles and Sean's new 180 degree kit?



-Sean (the other Sean) #40303



On 1/26/11 9:05 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I've been trying to integrate all the various information on the door

 construction process for some time. I have the Air Ward hinge

 reinforcements. I plan on the iflyrv-10 flush handles, Sean's latch

 upgrade and improved strut bracket. Also plan on the McMaster door

 seal. What I haven't quite figured out is if any of the modifications

 need to be done before bonding the door halves together. I also want

 to include whatever amount of insulation I can, recognizing that with

 the various indentations and the mechanism there isn't a lot of room

 left. Any words of wisdom from those than have blazed the trail would

 be appreciated.

 Kelly

 #40866

 allegedly finish kit, lots left to do before using the word finishing.

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Doors redux

In addition to the latches, I'd make sure you figure out what you're doing for door locks (if anything) before gluing the doors.  

  

 -Rob

 On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net (rv10builder(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net (rv10builder(at)verizon.net)>

 

If I was building my doors, with what I know now,  I would put a minimum of 2-3 layers of  fiberglass MAT around the inside of the doors so they weren't so flimsy. That wont take too much space to do.



--

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:06 am Post subject: Doors redux

Sean, you are correct. I have shipped 180 kits for customers that installed the flush handles and later they returned the extra racks. The flush handle is the limiting factor. My 180 and 90 gearboxes are identical and can travel  over two inches. The cost difference is the expensive rack gears needed for retrofit 180's where the new 180's use the uncut vans racks supplied in the kit. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 26, 2011, at 9:29, Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Kelly, one thing I would add to figure out is a definitive answer as to if the iflyrv-10 flush handles work with Sean's new 180 degree kit.  I've heard of the flush handles working with the 90 degree retro kit, but have yet to hear of them installed with a new 180 degree kit.

 Anyone out there with flush handles and Sean's new 180 degree kit?

 -Sean (the other Sean) #40303

 On 1/26/11 9:05 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

> 

> 

> I've been trying to integrate all the various information on the door

> construction process for some time. I have the Air Ward hinge

> reinforcements. I plan on the iflyrv-10 flush handles, Sean's latch

> upgrade and improved strut bracket. Also plan on the McMaster door

> seal. What I haven't quite figured out is if any of the modifications

> need to be done before bonding the door halves together. I also want

> to include whatever amount of insulation I can, recognizing that with

> the various indentations and the mechanism there isn't a lot of room

> left. Any words of wisdom from those than have blazed the trail would

> be appreciated.

> Kelly

> #40866

> allegedly finish kit, lots left to do before using the word finishing.

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: Doors redux

Are you saying to add glass to the areas where the bond occurs, or to

the areas that don't bond together? Is your concern stiffness vs

flexing or???

While aluminum formed doors are relatively strong on production

aircraft, they also can be called flimsy as they aren't hard to bend

and have minimal wt. I don't think that any amount of glass will turn

the doors into the equivalent of a Mercedes door, gullwing or not.



On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 If I was building my doors, with what I know now,  I would put a minimum of

 2-3 layers of  fiberglass MAT around the inside of the doors so they weren't

 so flimsy. That wont take too much space to do.

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: Doors redux

Let me try to understand. The flush handles simply cannot rotate a

full 180, so 90 degree install is the only thing that works? Or that

if the racks are not yet cut(mine are not) the 180 is possible? It

isn't a deal breaker for me if 90 is all that is possible.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Sean, you are correct. I have shipped 180 kits for customers that installed the flush handles and later they returned the extra racks. The flush handle is the limiting factor. My 180 and 90 gearboxes are identical and can travel  over two inches. The cost difference is the expensive rack gears needed for retrofit 180's where the new 180's use the uncut vans racks supplied in the kit.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 26, 2011, at 9:29, Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> wrote:

> 

>

> Kelly, one thing I would add to figure out is a definitive answer as to if the iflyrv-10 flush handles work with Sean's new 180 degree kit.  I've heard of the flush handles working with the 90 degree retro kit, but have yet to hear of them installed with a new 180 degree kit.

>

> Anyone out there with flush handles and Sean's new 180 degree kit?

>

> -Sean (the other Sean) #40303

>

> On 1/26/11 9:05 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

>> 

>>

>> I've been trying to integrate all the various information on the door

>> construction process for some time. I have the Air Ward hinge

>> reinforcements. I plan on the iflyrv-10 flush handles, Sean's latch

>> upgrade and improved strut bracket. Also plan on the McMaster door

>> seal. What I haven't quite figured out is if any of the modifications

>> need to be done before bonding the door halves together. I also want

>> to include whatever amount of insulation I can, recognizing that with

>> the various indentations and the mechanism there isn't a lot of room

>> left. Any words of wisdom from those than have blazed the trail would

>> be appreciated.

>> Kelly

>> #40866

>> allegedly finish kit, lots left to do before using the word finishing.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: Doors redux

The 180 new or the 90 will work on your stock vans handle with your uncut gear racks. The 90 and the 180 retro work on cut gear racks per vans instructions. Only the 90 will work on the flush handles. If the flush handles turn 90 - 130 degrees you can still use the 90 kit. The difference between the 90 and the 180 new is the supplied guides for the 180 kit. They are needed since the pushrods can be timed to retract into the door about 3/4 inch and allow the cam to fully engage before the pins come out the door. The guides prevent the pushrods from falling into the door structure. You can also time the 90 degree kit to pull before the pins come out but the more rotation over 90 the better. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 26, 2011, at 13:30, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Let me try to understand. The flush handles simply cannot rotate a

 full 180, so 90 degree install is the only thing that works? Or that

 if the racks are not yet cut(mine are not) the 180 is possible? It

 isn't a deal breaker for me if 90 is all that is possible.

 On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> Sean, you are correct. I have shipped 180 kits for customers that installed the flush handles and later they returned the extra racks. The flush handle is the limiting factor. My 180 and 90 gearboxes are identical and can travel  over two inches. The cost difference is the expensive rack gears needed for retrofit 180's where the new 180's use the uncut vans racks supplied in the kit.

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

> 

> On Jan 26, 2011, at 9:29, Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> Kelly, one thing I would add to figure out is a definitive answer as to if the iflyrv-10 flush handles work with Sean's new 180 degree kit.  I've heard of the flush handles working with the 90 degree retro kit, but have yet to hear of them installed with a new 180 degree kit.

>> 

>> Anyone out there with flush handles and Sean's new 180 degree kit?

>> 

>> -Sean (the other Sean) #40303

>> 

>> On 1/26/11 9:05 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> I've been trying to integrate all the various information on the door

>>> construction process for some time. I have the Air Ward hinge

>>> reinforcements. I plan on the iflyrv-10 flush handles, Sean's latch

>>> upgrade and improved strut bracket. Also plan on the McMaster door

>>> seal. What I haven't quite figured out is if any of the modifications

>>> need to be done before bonding the door halves together. I also want

>>> to include whatever amount of insulation I can, recognizing that with

>>> the various indentations and the mechanism there isn't a lot of room

>>> left. Any words of wisdom from those than have blazed the trail would

>>> be appreciated.

>>> Kelly

>>> #40866

>>> allegedly finish kit, lots left to do before using the word finishing.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

condreyb(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: Doors redux

The flush handles from iflyrv10.com actually are installed on the aft part of the door.Â  They are attached to the stock mechanism with a "saddle" that attaches to the long pushrod.Â Â There's an arm thatÂ is connected from the saddle to the actual flush handle mechanism.Â  The limitation is that the arm has limited ability to transfer the horizontal motion to the handle where it attaches to an "ear" of a circular piece.Â  The 90 (110?) degree version of Sean's latch works because it isn't really changing the amount motion on the horizontal tube.Â  If the 180 degree version adds travel to the horizontal rod then it isn't mechanically compatible.Â  Probably would work you just wouldn't get the extra travel for the rod.

  Â 

 Clear as mud?

 Â 

 Bob



 On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>

 

Let me try to understand. The flush handles simply cannot rotate a

full 180, so 90 degree install is the only thing that works? Or that

if the racks are not yet cut(mine are not) the 180 is possible? It

isn't a deal breaker for me if 90 is all that is possible.

 

[b]

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Doors redux

In the interest of clarity...



If you go to Steve's website (www.iflyrv10.com), click "Enter Store" you'll be taken to a bunch of pictures of his products.  The flush handles are the upper left item.  If you then click the "more info" button for the handles you'll see several pictures.  The upper left shows the components and you can clearly see the attach mechanism parts.  The second picture to the right shows the handle assembly and you can see the ears sticking out that the arm attaches to.  Finally, the second picture on the second row shows the mechanism installed in a door.  You can see the saddle on the aft horizontal rod and the arm attached to that.  It's hard to see in the picture but the ears on the handle are oriented vertically.  As the rod moves aft the arm causes the handle mechanism to rotate counter-clockwise.  When the rod is fully aft the side of the arm is almost in contact with the body of the handle.  If additional travel is added to the rod (to push the rod/pins further into the door jam) it will bind on the handle housing.  It's been a while but I think that the internal mechanism on the flush handles also prevents any additional travel in the other direction.  The amount of travel is essentially built in to the flush handles so that the rod can move the standard amount and the actual outer handle doesn't move.



There's been enough chatter on this that I thought I'd post this for those pondering the situation.  The handles work fine in a stock install with or without Sean's center latch (which is a huge safety improvement).  If you do combine them with Sean's latch you just won't be able to use the 180 degree version.



Bob

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: Doors redux

Clearer than the OSH mud of this year. )

Thanks Bob. I might survive this phase yet.



On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The flush handles from iflyrv10.com actually are installed on the aft part

 of the door.  They are attached to the stock mechanism with a "saddle" that

 attaches to the long pushrod.  .



 Clear as mud?



 Bob

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

condreyb(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: Doors redux

And I'd already blocked that out of my mind...

On Wednesday, January 26, 2011, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Clearer than the OSH mud of this year. )

 Thanks Bob. I might survive this phase yet.

 On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> The flush handles from iflyrv10.com actually are installed on the aft part

> of the door.Â  They are attached to the stock mechanism with a "saddle" that

> attaches to the long pushrod.Â  .

>

> Clear as mud?

>

> Bob

'

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Doors redux

I would do a couple things differently before bonding the door halves... 



1) If using flush door handles, double bond the inner handle edges with both flox and glass cloth. 



2) Purchase handles, Sean- 90 degree cams, locks ... and pull straps. Then test fit everything. I didn't do my pull straps and am now scratching my head about where to put them and how the heck to get at it.



3) Don't add extra door reinforcement until everything get test fit.



Regards,

Jay

Piddling around with final door fit

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum