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jill(at)m-14p.com
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 Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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Craig & Guys,
While Humberto’s e-mail was not very diplomatic, he may have been having a bad day…..I am sure we have all been pushed to a limit and “lowered the boom”.
If I have a choice, I prefer face-to-face, secondly a phone call and lastly e-mail. E-mail takes away a lot of our normal filters, body language, vocal cues, etc.
I fondly remember a customer calling in 90’s and asking Carl if this was where he could get cheap Yak parts. The customer caught him on a bad day and the call was not perceived as a joke. In the end, the customer became one of our best customers and we laugh about the whole thing.
I think we all have days where we would like to respond as Humberto did, but we exercise restraint and express diplomacy. Everyone has a different tolerance level.
Jill
M-14P, Inc.
[quote][b]
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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Guys and Gals:
Humberto said:
"Sorry Craig here at GT we doing business we don't have time to deal with bullshit.
Are you ready to pay? We are ready to show you that this is the best propeller for your stock hub.
Let us know when you are ready to do serious business."
Jill commented:
"While Humberto's e-mail was not very diplomatic, he may have been having a bad day....."
Jill is absolutely correct. He might have been having a bad day or he might not care how he alienates potential customers, or... he could be just like me... a real assH__ at times.
I apologize for those times I have been less than kind. Of course, I also am not trying to run a business or sell products.
Just saying. 
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jill Gernetzke
Sent: Wed 1/26/2011 8:27 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Subject: Customer Service Example
Craig & Guys,
While Humberto's e-mail was not very diplomatic, he may have been having a bad day.....I am sure we have all been pushed to a limit and "lowered the boom".
If I have a choice, I prefer face-to-face, secondly a phone call and lastly e-mail. E-mail takes away a lot of our normal filters, body language, vocal cues, etc.
I fondly remember a customer calling in 90's and asking Carl if this was where he could get cheap Yak parts. The customer caught him on a bad day and the call was not perceived as a joke. In the end, the customer became one of our best customers and we laugh about the whole thing.
I think we all have days where we would like to respond as Humberto did, but we exercise restraint and express diplomacy. Everyone has a different tolerance level.
Jill
M-14P, Inc.
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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HawkerPilot2015
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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Bad day or not, that sort of interaction with a potential customer would be unacceptable if I ran a business. If I found out that an employee of mine sent a letter like that, they would be terminated and a letter of apology would be sent to the customer. When you type an e-mail, the filter has a lot more time to do its job than does the brain/mouth model.
While I do not know Alex's position with GT, I am a little surprised he would not apologize for his coworkers remarks. That too is very telling.
Back to the cave for me..
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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It's only stated for show. He'll still ripe your throat out. Once a Jarhead always a Jarhead. ?^))as for the rude email from GT propellors any plans I had for a new composite prop just to whirlwind or MT. Most likely Whirlwind since I have a YAK in my hanger wearing one. Also I've flown my 52 on it's wing. It definitely out performs the v530!
If it came from one of my employees they would be history.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2011, at 1:44 PM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] OH no! Tell me it an't so! 
Pappy
--
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rick(at)rvairshows.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:41 am Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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I met the GT Propeller crew. In person, they are as professional as anyone. In their e-mail, there is something lost in translation due to the fact that English language is not second nature to them, often resulting in broken phrasing and misspelling, not to mention occasional inappropriate use of words. GT certainly deserves a look based on their incredible products alone. Aerostar Romania has equipped about 20 new build '52's with GT props. Most people on this list are not very familiar with me(www.rvairshows.com), so my endorsement means much less than the half dozen Yak parts/repair businesses that are rightfully trusted for their opinions. I continue to promote any new product that deserves to be held above the rest. I did so with Clarity Aloft headsets, for example. One of the aircraft I fly regularly in air shows is a Supermarine Spitfire. It has a Rotol wood prop that limits boost use to about +11 lb. GT props has built a replacement blade that drops in to the existing hub and removes all limits on manifold pressure for this aircraft/prop, and have pull tested to demonstrate that their blades have a safety factor that is far beyond industry standards. This is also true with their V530 replacement blades. The first time I viewed GT blades, I was able to closely examine their countless props for different aircraft. The quality is so overwhelming that I wanted to hang their props on my wall. I personally will endure occasional lapses in patience and civility to get the best product. And the GT blades truly are at the top for the Yak 52/CJ mission. To repeat earlier posts, I had to borrow the GT prop for my Sukhoi SU26M, after a faulty new MT prop had to be serviced mid air show season. I tested the GT prop because I was curious. My tests were posted on this site. I threw the GT prop on my friends Yak 52 and results were equally impressive. I needed much higher power levels in the Sukhoi to fly wing on the GT equipped Yak 52 than the Yak 52 with the V530. I think the day that the stateside Yak experts get to fly with this prop will change everything. It will become THE prop to get, like it has in the rest of the world.
Lets let the prop do the talking. This year at AirVenture, we will probably see that happen.
Rick Volker
On Jan 26, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:.
[quote]It's only stated for show. He'll still ripe your throat out. Once a Jarhead always a Jarhead. ?^))as for the rude email from GT propellors any plans I had for a new composite prop just to whirlwind or MT. Most likely Whirlwind since I have a YAK in my hanger wearing one. Also I've flown my 52 on it's wing. It definitely out performs the v530!
If it came from one of my employees they would be history.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2011, at 1:44 PM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] OH no! Tell me it an't so!
Pappy
--
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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Rick,
I suggest that the GT Propeller crew hire you to be their stateside... or rather.... English speaking representative.
I am not kidding.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of RICHARD VOLKER
Sent: Thu 1/27/2011 12:37 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Customer Service Example
I met the GT Propeller crew. In person, they are as professional as anyone. In their e-mail, there is something lost in translation due to the fact that English language is not second nature to them, often resulting in broken phrasing and misspelling, not to mention occasional inappropriate use of words. GT certainly deserves a look based on their incredible products alone. Aerostar Romania has equipped about 20 new build '52's with GT props. Most people on this list are not very familiar with me(www.rvairshows.com <http://www.rvairshows.com/> ), so my endorsement means much less than the half dozen Yak parts/repair businesses that are rightfully trusted for their opinions. I continue to promote any new product that deserves to be held above the rest. I did so with Clarity Aloft headsets, for example. One of the aircraft I fly regularly in air shows is a Supermarine Spitfire. It has a Rotol wood prop that limits boost use to about +11 lb. GT props has built a replacement blade that drops in to the existing hub and removes all limits on manifold pressure for this aircraft/prop, and have pull tested to demonstrate that their blades have a safety factor that is far beyond industry standards. This is also true with their V530 replacement blades. The first time I viewed GT blades, I was able to closely examine their countless props for different aircraft. The quality is so overwhelming that I wanted to hang their props on my wall. I personally will endure occasional lapses in patience and civility to get the best product. And the GT blades truly are at the top for the Yak 52/CJ mission.
To repeat earlier posts, I had to borrow the GT prop for my Sukhoi SU26M, after a faulty new MT prop had to be serviced mid air show season. I tested the GT prop because I was curious. My tests were posted on this site. I threw the GT prop on my friends Yak 52 and results were equally impressive. I needed much higher power levels in the Sukhoi to fly wing on the GT equipped Yak 52 than the Yak 52 with the V530. I think the day that the stateside Yak experts get to fly with this prop will change everything. It will become THE prop to get, like it has in the rest of the world.
Lets let the prop do the talking. This year at AirVenture, we will probably see that happen.
Rick Volker
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ph451(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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There was nothing lost in that translation.
--- On Thu, 1/27/11, RICHARD VOLKER <rick(at)rvairshows.com> wrote:
[quote]
From: RICHARD VOLKER <rick(at)rvairshows.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Customer Service Example
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 5:37 PM
I met the GT Propeller crew. In person, they are as professional as anyone. In their e-mail, there is something lost in translation due to the fact that English language is not second nature to them, often resulting in broken phrasing and misspelling, not to mention occasional inappropriate use of words. GT certainly deserves a look based on their incredible products alone. Aerostar Romania has equipped about 20 new build '52's with GT props. Most people on this list are not very familiar with me(www.rvairshows.com), so my endorsement means much less than the half dozen Yak parts/repair businesses that are rightfully trusted for their opinions. I continue to promote any new product that deserves to be held above the rest. I did so with Clarity Aloft headsets, for example. One of the aircraft I fly regularly in air shows is a Supermarine Spitfire. It has a Rotol wood prop that limits boost use to about +11 lb. GT props has built a replacement blade that drops in to the existing hub and removes all limits on manifold pressure for this aircraft/prop, and have pull tested to demonstrate that their blades have a safety factor that is far beyond industry standards. This is also true with their V530 replacement blades. The first time I viewed GT blades, I was able to closely examine their countless props for different aircraft. The quality is so overwhelming that I wanted to hang their props on my wall. I personally will endure occasional lapses in patience and civility to get the best product. And the GT blades truly are at the top for the Yak 52/CJ mission. To repeat earlier posts, I had to borrow the GT prop for my Sukhoi SU26M, after a faulty new MT prop had to be serviced mid air show season. I tested the GT prop because I was curious. My tests were posted on this site. I threw the GT prop on my friends Yak 52 and results were equally impressive. I needed much higher power levels in the Sukhoi to fly wing on the GT equipped Yak 52 than the Yak 52 with the V530. I think the day that the stateside Yak experts get to fly with this prop will change everything. It will become THE prop to get, like it has in the rest of the world.
Lets let the prop do the talking. This year at AirVenture, we will probably see that happen.
Rick Volker
On Jan 26, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:.
[quote] It's only stated for show. He'll still ripe your throat out. Once a Jarhead always a Jarhead. ?^))as for the rude email from GT propellors any plans I had for a new composite prop just to whirlwind or MT. Most likely Whirlwind since I have a YAK in my hanger wearing one. Also I've flown my 52 on it's wing. It definitely out performs the v530!
If it came from one of my employees they would be history.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2011, at 1:44 PM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] OH no! Tell me it an't so!
Pappy
--
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gtnorth
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 2
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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Dear Mr. Craig Payne, since it looks like I'm the bad guy, and you like to go public, I will put public all the email you sent me with my answer and let the other friends on the forum make their own conclusion.
Let's start:
from Cpayne <cpayne>
reply-to Cpayne <cpayne>
to hdramisino(at)gmail.com
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 5:57 AM
subject Yak prop
mailed-by joimail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Sir;
Is that new propeller for the Yak a complete unit? I'm really only interested in new blades that fit the old hub.
Craig Payne
Humberto's answer:
Humberto Dramisino <humberto>
to Cpayne <cpayne>
cc GT PROPELLERS <info>
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM
subject Re: Yak prop
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Dear Craig,
No they fit the original hub, you only have to do after installation a
dynamic balancing.
Please contact me for any other information
this is some information for you:
New GT2-V-25 blades versus V-530 Vperod
Type: Type :
GT2-V-25 V-530
Tractor Tractor
Two blade Two blade
Hub application : V530 V530
Installation :Screwed in to hub Same
Diameter : 2.50/98,4" 2.40/94.5"
Maximal blade width :245 mm/96" 240 mm/94.4
Weight:About 9 kgs/18 Po. a blade Same
Construction:Wood/carbon all wood
Leading protection :Composite metal
Blade design: Scimitar Oar Shape
Airfoils : GT design Unknown
Inertia moment : 05 KG-MP SP.S 05 KG-MP SP.S
Application: 2.50/98", 360 hp 360 HP
Looking : Modern sleek styled Old style
Availability : New production Only used
Maintenance : Spare blades /Oh Recon.old
PERFORMANCE AND ADVANTAGES .
Thanks to greater diameter and modern airfoils adopted on GT blades,
tested in various flying conditions for years, many Yak 52 achieved
outstanding performance compared to standard original blades :
- Greater static thrust.
- Shorter take off distance,both grass or hard surfaces.
- Higher cruise speed (at) any power setting.
- (at) 70% of power setting an average of 15 / 18 KMH / 8 /10 KTS faster.
- Shorter landings thanks to greater propeller disc.
- More energic feeling during all aerobatic manoeuvres.
- Very good cooling in hot places.
- Reduced noise level both in the cockpit that out side.
- Smoother engine running.
- Lower fuel burning.
- Reduced engine damage when prop ground impact compared to blade made
of aluminium or all composite.
FEATURES :
Blades diameter can be arraged from 2.50/98", up to 2.65/104".
Standard configuration scimitar tips shaped.
Square shaped blasdes on request.
Metal leading edge in progress.
For unlimited aerobatic operatos using 400/420 HP a greater metal
blade retention is adopted.
Standard finishing is high gloss White,Black,Grey.
Custom paint on request.
Carbon finishing is now available on request .
Worldwide delivery .
Standard YAK 52 360 HP 2.50/98", diameter.
Other aircrafts using GT2-V-25 blades :
Yak 52 TW.
Yak 50.
Yak 55.
Yak 18.
Other tests are in progress .
Comparation
GT2-V-25 price versus V530 and three blade.
A reconditioned V-530 blades cost about 1.600,00 Euros with better
looking. No performance increase.
New GT blades with higher performance cost
5.500,00 Euros.
Alternative :
Three blade with modern looking and high performance cost about : 13.000 Euros
Wich of these three options is your best solution ?
IMPORTANT :
GT-PROPELLERS supply only M-14 blades own designed and produced,
statically balanced.
GT-Propellers strongly advice to make new prop balance after
installing the GT new blades.
For every kind of M-14 application GT Propellers can advice you the
best individual solution.
Best regards,
Humberto
After this email I wrote another email to many YAK pilots and this was the email: (please everybody notice the the date)
From: Humberto Dramisino
To: yakman(at)joimail.com
Cc: GT PROPELLERS
Sent: 2/4/2009 6:42:26 AM
Subject: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
Dear Sir,
My name is Humberto Dramisino and I'm a business partner with GT propeller in Italy.
GT is an old manufacture of propeller for aircraft and they do propeller for warbird like your CJ and many other.
I will receive by the end of February one set of blade for your aircraft and I'm looking for somebody interested to buy them, all the test they were already made in Italy and Romania, and the result were outstanding compared to the original one.
The price for both propeller delivered to you is 8989.00, attached to this email you have the manual please have a look.
Our propeller are made in high densified wood, and are capable to use all the power of your engine not limited like some of our competitors.
If you have any other question, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
Humberto
Mr. Craig answer was:
rom yakman(at)joimail.com <yakman>
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com
to Humberto Dramisino <humbertod>
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM
subject RE: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/4/09
Humberto,
Thank you for the offer. Have not I seen this propeller blade replacement offerring for over 3 years now? At $8989 USD for blades only, I am afraid that the MTV 3-blade, with hub, becomes a viable option. At a price point of $4000 - $5000 USD, the blades could get some initial market share, leading to later price increases. Perhaps if your company could visit the major events like Sun 'n Fun and Oshkosh with a flying demo version, you could start getting orders in the U.S.
I could try your prop blades and show them off as I am located at Lakeland Florida at the Sun 'N Fun location and also fly at Oshkosh AirVenure each year.
Could I also suggest that your Yak Manual could use some editing of the English translation? This is something I could do. I spent my career in the technical world and have authored many of the manuals available on the RedStar Pilots Association website.
Craig Payne
This is my answer:
rom Humberto Dramisino <humbertod>
to yakman(at)joimail.com
cc GT PROPELLERS <info>
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:27 PM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/4/09
Dear Craig,
Thank you for your quick response, just to clarify, the price is for the two blade delivered (shipping included), you have to only remove the original and put the new one on it, same hub.
The two blade perform way better than the 3 blade from MT you can not even compare them, test were done in Italy.
3 blades look only nicer if you want, no more than that.
with GT-Propeller we guarantee better climb, better cruise at same rpm, shorter landing, low noise comparable to 3 blades, , not to mention better fuel economy.
The foil design by GT Italy only for the Yak's type airplane is not a generic prop like MT.
If you interested please let me know, we are looking for serious people to do serious business, we are not looking for somebody to test because as I mentioned test were already done for the past 5 years, the product is final and outperform anything that today is on the market.
I will have soon the first set in north America please let me know if there is any interest on your side.
We are so sure about our quality that in our policy is if you are not satisfy we will take the propeller back and you will be refund in full, this is how we now that our product is the best, try to ask MT to do the same.
Best regards,
Humberto
This is Mr. Craig answer:
from yakman(at)joimail.com <yakman>
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com
to Humberto Dramisino <humbertod>
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/5/09
Humberto,
It's not about testing, it's about marketing. Many owners tend to discount claims made by manufacturers and trust what they hear from a fellow owner and see flying. Even if your blades could perform as you state, no one is going to believe it without visible proof.
The 3-blade "looks" better also, this is important to many owners. Regardless, you will find few sales at those prices. As for the existing 2-blade V530, Whirlwind Propeller will refurbish an existing set of blades with a composite cover and nickel edge for around $2500 per pair, delivered. They look great and last a long time.
My aircraft is a Nanchang CJ-6 with M-14P engine and large spinner, my speeds are much higher than the Yaks. Could your propeller perform as well on this kind of airframe? Engineering claims will not matter as much as real comparisons by private owners.
Craig Payne
This is my last email before he stated "something got lost in the translation:
from Humberto Dramisino <humbertod>
to yakman(at)joimail.com
cc GT PROPELLERS <info>
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 7:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/5/09
Dear Craig,
Like I mentioned to you I'm only looking somebody serious to sell my first set of blade, and it amazed me how in this field owners of airplane are only looking for the cheapest thing in the market to mounted on one of the most important part of the airplane, and they don't look for more tangible improvement, not to mention safety.
I see people repair cracked wood propeller on these airplanes by adding a piece of wood in the crack with glue, sand it and flying it, when in Italy we not even use them to hang it on the wall.
I also notice that often some pilot spend many thousand of dollar in useless instrument when the only important thing that hold them in the air they want it as cheap as possible, well I don't want to generalize and that's way I know i will find somebody that understand all this.
About the speed of your airplane yes the propeller will do the perfect job on yours as well, if your airplane is more sleek in the air it will use more pitch and the blade is design for that.
I will keep you posted,
Best regards,
Humberto Dramisino
Since than I never heard from you, until you wrote to GT the following:
Buongiorno Alex,
So does all this text you wrote on the Yak-list mean that we will see a set of those prop blades on a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 at either Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh? I have tried to communicate with "Humberto" via email numerous times but something got lost in translation.
It's not the Talk I'm interested in, It's your prop blades on one of our airplanes Walking the Talk, that will sell me on this prop. Quotes from your Engineering department, filtered through Marketing may prove difficult to translate into sales.
Craig Payne
After this email... sorry guys I blew out, why? because after all the tests done by Rick Volker in USA, and many other pilots worldwide, you are still wondering if these blades are good or not, and trying to convince us to send you a free set for you to test. Sorry you came too late, no test no more, if want them you will have to pay.
About the manufacturers that are doing good looking replacement propellers I tell you: sorry, GT is focused on making hi performance propellers not only good looking design, and safety is our first target on our product.
That's why GT takes the time to develop products - behind those blades there are years of testing, test after test.
The material GT use is one of the best available in world from the wood to the composite, no compromise, no cheap off corners.
GT doesn't make cheap propellers. If you are looking to save money and buy a less expensive propeller and, you like to be a Guinea pig for others then do what you please.
If you'd like to discuss business, I can be available any time, just call me.
Best regards,
Humberto
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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Without taking any position at all in this dispute, I want to make it clear
and state that it's not a good idea to fight out any misunderstandings on
this forum.
Many of the participants on this list make a contribution so that it can
continue living. Most of us need this list because it's a very valuable
add-on to whatever information on Yaks or CJ's is available. Very often
problems have been sold after asking a question on this list.
So PLEASE stick to the rules of conduct as published regularly by Matt.
Jan
--
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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Take this dispute off the Yak list. I for one am not interested in
reading or seeing your personal emails. If you have a disagreement with
someone, email or speak to that person directly.
Dennis
On 1/28/2011 8:27 PM, gtnorth wrote:
| Quote: |
Dear Mr. Craig Payne, since it looks like I'm the bad guy, and you like to go public, I will put public all the email you sent me with my answer and let the other friends on the forum make their own conclusion.
Let's start:
from Cpayne
reply-to Cpayne
to hdramisino(at)gmail.com
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 5:57 AM
subject Yak prop
mailed-by joimail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Sir;
Is that new propeller for the Yak a complete unit? I'm really only interested in new blades that fit the old hub.
Craig Payne
Humberto's answer:
Humberto Dramisino
to Cpayne
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM
subject Re: Yak prop
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Dear Craig,
No they fit the original hub, you only have to do after installation a
dynamic balancing.
Please contact me for any other information
this is some information for you:
New GT2-V-25 blades versus V-530 Vperod
Type: Type :
GT2-V-25 V-530
Tractor Tractor
Two blade Two blade
Hub application : V530 V530
Installation :Screwed in to hub Same
Diameter : 2.50/98,4" 2.40/94.5"
Maximal blade width :245 mm/96" 240 mm/94.4
Weight:About 9 kgs/18 Po. a blade Same
Construction:Wood/carbon all wood
Leading protection :Composite metal
Blade design: Scimitar Oar Shape
Airfoils : GT design Unknown
Inertia moment : 05 KG-MP SP.S 05 KG-MP SP.S
Application: 2.50/98", 360 hp 360 HP
Looking : Modern sleek styled Old style
Availability : New production Only used
Maintenance : Spare blades /Oh Recon.old
PERFORMANCE AND ADVANTAGES .
Thanks to greater diameter and modern airfoils adopted on GT blades,
tested in various flying conditions for years, many Yak 52 achieved
outstanding performance compared to standard original blades :
- Greater static thrust.
- Shorter take off distance,both grass or hard surfaces.
- Higher cruise speed (at) any power setting.
- (at) 70% of power setting an average of 15 / 18 KMH / 8 /10 KTS faster.
- Shorter landings thanks to greater propeller disc.
- More energic feeling during all aerobatic manoeuvres.
- Very good cooling in hot places.
- Reduced noise level both in the cockpit that out side.
- Smoother engine running.
- Lower fuel burning.
- Reduced engine damage when prop ground impact compared to blade made
of aluminium or all composite.
FEATURES :
Blades diameter can be arraged from 2.50/98", up to 2.65/104".
Standard configuration scimitar tips shaped.
Square shaped blasdes on request.
Metal leading edge in progress.
For unlimited aerobatic operatos using 400/420 HP a greater metal
blade retention is adopted.
Standard finishing is high gloss White,Black,Grey.
Custom paint on request.
Carbon finishing is now available on request .
Worldwide delivery .
Standard YAK 52 360 HP 2.50/98", diameter.
Other aircrafts using GT2-V-25 blades :
Yak 52 TW.
Yak 50.
Yak 55.
Yak 18.
Other tests are in progress .
Comparation
GT2-V-25 price versus V530 and three blade.
A reconditioned V-530 blades cost about 1.600,00 Euros with better
looking. No performance increase.
New GT blades with higher performance cost
5.500,00 Euros.
Alternative :
Three blade with modern looking and high performance cost about : 13.000 Euros
Wich of these three options is your best solution ?
IMPORTANT :
GT-PROPELLERS supply only M-14 blades own designed and produced,
statically balanced.
GT-Propellers strongly advice to make new prop balance after
installing the GT new blades.
For every kind of M-14 application GT Propellers can advice you the
best individual solution.
Best regards,
Humberto
After this email I wrote another email to many YAK pilots and this was the email: (please everybody notice the the date)
From: Humberto Dramisino
To: yakman(at)joimail.com
Cc: GT PROPELLERS
Sent: 2/4/2009 6:42:26 AM
Subject: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
Dear Sir,
My name is Humberto Dramisino and I'm a business partner with GT propeller in Italy.
GT is an old manufacture of propeller for aircraft and they do propeller for warbird like your CJ and many other.
I will receive by the end of February one set of blade for your aircraft and I'm looking for somebody interested to buy them, all the test they were already made in Italy and Romania, and the result were outstanding compared to the original one.
The price for both propeller delivered to you is 8989.00, attached to this email you have the manual please have a look.
Our propeller are made in high densified wood, and are capable to use all the power of your engine not limited like some of our competitors.
If you have any other question, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
Humberto
Mr. Craig answer was:
rom yakman(at)joimail.com
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com
to Humberto Dramisino
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM
subject RE: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/4/09
Humberto,
Thank you for the offer. Have not I seen this propeller blade replacement offerring for over 3 years now? At $8989 USD for blades only, I am afraid that the MTV 3-blade, with hub, becomes a viable option. At a price point of $4000 - $5000 USD, the blades could get some initial market share, leading to later price increases. Perhaps if your company could visit the major events like Sun 'n Fun and Oshkosh with a flying demo version, you could start getting orders in the U.S.
I could try your prop blades and show them off as I am located at Lakeland Florida at the Sun 'N Fun location and also fly at Oshkosh AirVenure each year.
Could I also suggest that your Yak Manual could use some editing of the English translation? This is something I could do. I spent my career in the technical world and have authored many of the manuals available on the RedStar Pilots Association website.
Craig Payne
This is my answer:
rom Humberto Dramisino
to yakman(at)joimail.com
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:27 PM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/4/09
Dear Craig,
Thank you for your quick response, just to clarify, the price is for the two blade delivered (shipping included), you have to only remove the original and put the new one on it, same hub.
The two blade perform way better than the 3 blade from MT you can not even compare them, test were done in Italy.
3 blades look only nicer if you want, no more than that.
with GT-Propeller we guarantee better climb, better cruise at same rpm, shorter landing, low noise comparable to 3 blades, , not to mention better fuel economy.
The foil design by GT Italy only for the Yak's type airplane is not a generic prop like MT.
If you interested please let me know, we are looking for serious people to do serious business, we are not looking for somebody to test because as I mentioned test were already done for the past 5 years, the product is final and outperform anything that today is on the market.
I will have soon the first set in north America please let me know if there is any interest on your side.
We are so sure about our quality that in our policy is if you are not satisfy we will take the propeller back and you will be refund in full, this is how we now that our product is the best, try to ask MT to do the same.
Best regards,
Humberto
This is Mr. Craig answer:
from yakman(at)joimail.com
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com
to Humberto Dramisino
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/5/09
Humberto,
It's not about testing, it's about marketing. Many owners tend to discount claims made by manufacturers and trust what they hear from a fellow owner and see flying. Even if your blades could perform as you state, no one is going to believe it without visible proof.
The 3-blade "looks" better also, this is important to many owners. Regardless, you will find few sales at those prices. As for the existing 2-blade V530, Whirlwind Propeller will refurbish an existing set of blades with a composite cover and nickel edge for around $2500 per pair, delivered. They look great and last a long time.
My aircraft is a Nanchang CJ-6 with M-14P engine and large spinner, my speeds are much higher than the Yaks. Could your propeller perform as well on this kind of airframe? Engineering claims will not matter as much as real comparisons by private owners.
Craig Payne
This is my last email before he stated "something got lost in the translation:
from Humberto Dramisino
to yakman(at)joimail.com
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 7:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/5/09
Dear Craig,
Like I mentioned to you I'm only looking somebody serious to sell my first set of blade, and it amazed me how in this field owners of airplane are only looking for the cheapest thing in the market to mounted on one of the most important part of the airplane, and they don't look for more tangible improvement, not to mention safety.
I see people repair cracked wood propeller on these airplanes by adding a piece of wood in the crack with glue, sand it and flying it, when in Italy we not even use them to hang it on the wall.
I also notice that often some pilot spend many thousand of dollar in useless instrument when the only important thing that hold them in the air they want it as cheap as possible, well I don't want to generalize and that's way I know i will find somebody that understand all this.
About the speed of your airplane yes the propeller will do the perfect job on yours as well, if your airplane is more sleek in the air it will use more pitch and the blade is design for that.
I will keep you posted,
Best regards,
Humberto Dramisino
Since than I never heard from you, until you wrote to GT the following:
Buongiorno Alex,
So does all this text you wrote on the Yak-list mean that we will see a set of those prop blades on a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 at either Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh? I have tried to communicate with "Humberto" via email numerous times but something got lost in translation.
It's not the Talk I'm interested in, It's your prop blades on one of our airplanes Walking the Talk, that will sell me on this prop. Quotes from your Engineering department, filtered through Marketing may prove difficult to translate into sales.
Craig Payne
After this email... sorry guys I blew out, why? because after all the tests done by Rick Volker in USA, and many other pilots worldwide, you are still wondering if these blades are good or not, and trying to convince us to send you a free set for you to test. Sorry you came too late, no test no more, if want them you will have to pay.
About the manufacturers that are doing good looking replacement propellers I tell you: sorry, GT is focused on making hi performance propellers not only good looking design, and safety is our first target on our product.
That's why GT takes the time to develop products - behind those blades there are years of testing, test after test.
The material GT use is one of the best available in world from the wood to the composite, no compromise, no cheap off corners.
GT doesn't make cheap propellers. If you are looking to save money and buy a less expensive propeller and, you like to be a Guinea pig for others then do what you please.
If you'd like to discuss business, I can be available any time, just call me.
Best regards,
Humberto
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328871#328871
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jlpartington(at)att.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:52 am Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
|
|
I agree but it seems like you are yelling at the wrong guy, notice the reply to..............
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 6:36:58 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Subject: Customer Service Example
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
Take this dispute off the Yak list. I for one am not interested in
reading or seeing your personal emails. If you have a disagreement with
someone, email or speak to that person directly.
Dennis
On 1/28/2011 8:27 PM, gtnorth wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "gtnorth"<hdramisino(at)gmail.com (hdramisino(at)gmail.com)>
Dear Mr. Craig Payne, since it looks like I'm the bad guy, and you like to go public, I will put public all the email you sent me with my answer and let the other friends on the forum make their own conclusion.
Let's start:
from Cpayne
reply-to Cpayne
to hdramisino(at)gmail.com (hdramisino(at)gmail.com)
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 5:57 AM
subject Yak prop
mailed-by joimail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Sir;
Is that new propeller for the Yak a complete unit? I'm really only interested in new blades that fit the old hub.
Craig Payne
Humberto's answer:
Humberto Dramisino
to Cpayne
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM
subject Re: Yak prop
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Dear Craig,
No they fit the original hub, you only have to do after installation a
dynamic balancing.
Please contact me for any other information
this is some information for you:
New GT2-V-25 blades versus V-530 Vperod
Type: Type :
GT2-V-25 V-530
Tractor Tractor
Two blade Two blade
Hub application : V530 V530
Installation :Screwed in to hub Same
Diameter : 2.50/98,4" 2.40/94.5"
Maximal blade width :245 mm/96" 240 mm/94.4
Weight:About 9 kgs/18 Po. a blade Same
Construction:Wood/carbon all wood
Leading protection :Composite metal
Blade design: Scimitar Oar Shape
Airfoils : GT design Unknown
Inertia moment : 05 KG-MP SP.S 05 KG-MP SP.S
Application: 2.50/98", 360 hp 360 HP
Looking : Modern sleek styled Old style
Availability : New production Only used
Maintenance : Spare blades /Oh Recon.old
PERFORMANCE AND ADVANTAGES .
Thanks to greater diameter and modern airfoils adopted on GT blades,
tested in various flying conditions for years, many Yak 52 achieved
outstanding performance compared to standard original blades :
- Greater static thrust.
- Shorter take off distance,both grass or hard surfaces.
- Higher cruise speed (at) any power setting.
- (at) 70% of power setting an average of 15 / 18 KMH / 8 /10 KTS faster.
- Shorter landings thanks to greater propeller disc.
- More energic feeling during all aerobatic manoeuvres.
- Very good cooling in hot places.
- Reduced noise level both in the cockpit that out side.
- Smoother engine running.
- Lower fuel burning.
- Reduced engine damage when prop ground impact compared to blade made
of aluminium or all composite.
FEATURES :
Blades diameter can be arraged from 2.50/98", up to 2.65/104".
Standard configuration scimitar tips shaped.
Square shaped blasdes on request.
Metal leading edge in progress.
For unlimited aerobatic operatos using 400/420 HP a greater metal
blade retention is adopted.
Standard finishing is high gloss White,Black,Grey.
Custom paint on request.
Carbon finishing is now available on request .
Worldwide delivery .
Standard YAK 52 360 HP 2.50/98", diameter.
Other aircrafts using GT2-V-25 blades :
Yak 52 TW.
Yak 50.
Yak 55.
Yak 18.
Other tests are in progress .
Comparation
GT2-V-25 price versus V530 and three blade.
A reconditioned V-530 blades cost about 1.600,00 Euros with better
looking. No performance increase.
New GT blades with higher performance cost
5.500,00 Euros.
Alternative :
Three blade with modern looking and high performance cost about : 13.000 Euros
Wich of these three options is your best solution ?
IMPORTANT :
GT-PROPELLERS supply only M-14 blades own designed and produced,
statically balanced.
GT-Propellers strongly advice to make new prop balance after
installing the GT new blades.
For every kind of M-14 application GT Propellers can advice you the
best individual solution.
Best regards,
Humberto
After this email I wrote another email to many YAK pilots and this was the email: (please everybody notice the the date)
From: Humberto Dramisino
To: yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
Cc: GT PROPELLERS
Sent: 2/4/2009 6:42:26 AM
Subject: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
Dear Sir,
My name is Humberto Dramisino and I'm a business partner with GT propeller in Italy.
GT is an old manufacture of propeller for aircraft and they do propeller for warbird like your CJ and many other.
I will receive by the end of February one set of blade for your aircraft and I'm looking for somebody interested to buy them, all the test they were already made in Italy and Romania, and the result were outstanding compared to the original one.
The price for both propeller delivered to you is 8989.00, attached to this email you have the manual please have a look.
Our propeller are made in high densified wood, and are capable to use all the power of your engine not limited like some of our competitors.
If you have any other question, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
Humberto
Mr. Craig answer was:
rom yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
to Humberto Dramisino
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM
subject RE: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/4/09
Humberto,
Thank you for the offer. Have not I seen this propeller blade replacement offerring for over 3 years now? At $8989 USD for blades only, I am afraid that the MTV 3-blade, with hub, becomes a viable option. At a price point of $4000 - $5000 USD, the blades could get some initial market share, leading to later price increases. Perhaps if your company could visit the major events like Sun 'n Fun and Oshkosh with a flying demo version, you could start getting orders in the U.S.
I could try your prop blades and show them off as I am located at Lakeland Florida at the Sun 'N Fun location and also fly at Oshkosh AirVenure each year.
Could I also suggest that your Yak Manual could use some editing of the English translation? This is something I could do. I spent my career in the technical world and have authored many of the manuals available on the RedStar Pilots Association website.
Craig Payne
This is my answer:
rom Humberto Dramisino
to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:27 PM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/4/09
Dear Craig,
Thank you for your quick response, just to clarify, the price is for the two blade delivered (shipping included), you have to only remove the original and put the new one on it, same hub.
The two blade perform way better than the 3 blade from MT you can not even compare them, test were done in Italy.
3 blades look only nicer if you want, no more than that.
with GT-Propeller we guarantee better climb, better cruise at same rpm, shorter landing, low noise comparable to 3 blades, , not to mention better fuel economy.
The foil design by GT Italy only for the Yak's type airplane is not a generic prop like MT.
If you interested please let me know, we are looking for serious people to do serious business, we are not looking for somebody to test because as I mentioned test were already done for the past 5 years, the product is final and outperform anything that today is on the market.
I will have soon the first set in north America please let me know if there is any interest on your side.
We are so sure about our quality that in our policy is if you are not satisfy we will take the propeller back and you will be refund in full, this is how we now that our product is the best, try to ask MT to do the same.
Best regards,
Humberto
This is Mr. Craig answer:
from yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
to Humberto Dramisino
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/5/09
Humberto,
It's not about testing, it's about marketing. Many owners tend to discount claims made by manufacturers and trust what they hear from a fellow owner and see flying. Even if your blades could perform as you state, no one is going to believe it without visible proof.
The 3-blade "looks" better also, this is important to many owners. Regardless, you will find few sales at those prices. As for the existing 2-blade V530, Whirlwind Propeller will refurbish an existing set of blades with a composite cover and nickel edge for around $2500 per pair, delivered. They look great and last a long time.
My aircraft is a Nanchang CJ-6 with M-14P engine and large spinner, my speeds are much higher than the Yaks. Could your propeller perform as well on this kind of airframe? Engineering claims will not matter as much as real comparisons by private owners.
Craig Payne
This is my last email before he stated "something got lost in the translation:
from Humberto Dramisino
to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 7:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/5/09
Dear Craig,
Like I mentioned to you I'm only looking somebody serious to sell my first set of blade, and it amazed me how in this field owners of airplane are only looking for the cheapest thing in the market to mounted on one of the most important part of the airplane, and they don't look for more tangible improvement, not to mention safety.
I see people repair cracked wood propeller on these airplanes by adding a piece of wood in the crack with glue, sand it and flying it, when in Italy we not even use them to hang it on the wall.
I also notice that often some pilot spend many thousand of dollar in useless instrument when the only important thing that hold them in the air they want it as cheap as possible, well I don't want to generalize and that's way I know i will find somebody that understand all this.
About the speed of your airplane yes the propeller will do the perfect job on yours as well, if your airplane is more sleek in the air it will use more pitch and the blade is design for that.
I will keep you posted,
Best regards,
Humberto Dramisino
Since than I never heard from you, until you wrote to GT the following:
Buongiorno Alex,
So does all this text you wrote on the Yak-list mean that we will see a set of those prop blades on a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 at either Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh? I have tried to communicate with "Humberto" via email numerous times but something got lost in translation.
It's not the Talk I'm interested in, It's your prop blades on one of our airplanes Walking the Talk, that will sell me on this prop. Quotes from your Engineering department, filtered through Marketing may prove difficult to translate into sales.
Craig Payne
After this email... sorry guys I blew out, why? because after all the tests done by Rick Volker in USA, and many other pilots worldwide, you are still wondering if these blades are good or not, and trying to convince us to send you a free set for you to test. Sorry you came too late, no test no more, if want them you will have to pay.
About the manufacturers that are doing good looking replacement propellers I tell you: sorry, GT is focused on making hi performance propellers not only good looking design, and safety is our first target on our product.
That's why GT takes the time to develop products - behind those blades there are years of testing, test after test.
The material GT use is one of the best available in world from the wood to the composite, no compromise, no cheap off corners.
GT doesn't make cheap propellers. If you are looking to save money and buy a less expensive propeller and, you like to be a Guinea pig for others then do what you please.
If you'd like to discuss business, I can be available any time, just call me.
Best regards,
Humberto
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328871#328871
<========================
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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| Back to top |
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:05 am Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
|
|
PLEASE - BOTH of you take this off the Yak list.
Dennis
On 1/29/2011 6:48 AM, James Partington wrote:
| Quote: | I agree but it seems like you are yelling at the wrong guy, notice the
reply to..............
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
*To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com
*Sent:* Sat, January 29, 2011 6:36:58 AM
*Subject:* Re: Re: Subject: Customer Service Example
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>>
Take this dispute off the Yak list. I for one am not interested in
reading or seeing your personal emails. If you have a disagreement with
someone, email or speak to that person directly.
Dennis
On 1/28/2011 8:27 PM, gtnorth wrote:
>
<mailto:hdramisino(at)gmail.com>>
>
> Dear Mr. Craig Payne, since it looks like I'm the bad guy, and you
like to go public, I will put public all the email you sent me with my
answer and let the other friends on the forum make their own conclusion.
>
> Let's start:
>
> from Cpayne
> reply-to Cpayne
> to hdramisino(at)gmail.com <mailto:hdramisino(at)gmail.com>
> date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 5:57 AM
> subject Yak prop
> mailed-by joimail.com <http://joimail.com/>
> hide details 5/25/08
> Sir;
>
> Is that new propeller for the Yak a complete unit? I'm really only
interested in new blades that fit the old hub.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> Humberto's answer:
>
> Humberto Dramisino
> to Cpayne
> cc GT PROPELLERS
> date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM
> subject Re: Yak prop
> mailed-by gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>
> hide details 5/25/08
> Dear Craig,
> No they fit the original hub, you only have to do after installation a
> dynamic balancing.
> Please contact me for any other information
> this is some information for you:
>
> New GT2-V-25 blades versus V-530 Vperod
>
>
> Type: Type :
> GT2-V-25 V-530
> Tractor Tractor
> Two blade Two blade
> Hub application : V530 V530
> Installation :Screwed in to hub Same
> Diameter : 2.50/98,4" 2.40/94.5"
> Maximal blade width :245 mm/96" 240 mm/94.4
> Weight:About 9 kgs/18 Po. a blade Same
> Construction:Wood/carbon all wood
> Leading protection :Composite metal
> Blade design: Scimitar Oar Shape
> Airfoils : GT design Unknown
> Inertia moment : 05 KG-MP SP.S 05 KG-MP SP.S
> Application: 2.50/98", 360 hp 360 HP
> Looking : Modern sleek styled Old style
> Availability : New production Only used
> Maintenance : Spare blades /Oh Recon.old
>
> PERFORMANCE AND ADVANTAGES .
>
> Thanks to greater diameter and modern airfoils adopted on GT blades,
> tested in various flying conditions for years, many Yak 52 achieved
> outstanding performance compared to standard original blades :
>
> - Greater static thrust.
> - Shorter take off distance,both grass or hard surfaces.
> - Higher cruise speed (at) any power setting.
> - (at) 70% of power setting an average of 15 / 18 KMH / 8 /10 KTS faster.
> - Shorter landings thanks to greater propeller disc.
> - More energic feeling during all aerobatic manoeuvres.
> - Very good cooling in hot places.
> - Reduced noise level both in the cockpit that out side.
> - Smoother engine running.
> - Lower fuel burning.
> - Reduced engine damage when prop ground impact compared to blade made
> of aluminium or all composite.
>
>
> FEATURES :
>
> Blades diameter can be arraged from 2.50/98", up to 2.65/104".
> Standard configuration scimitar tips shaped.
> Square shaped blasdes on request.
> Metal leading edge in progress.
> For unlimited aerobatic operatos using 400/420 HP a greater metal
> blade retention is adopted.
> Standard finishing is high gloss White,Black,Grey.
> Custom paint on request.
> Carbon finishing is now available on request .
> Worldwide delivery .
> Standard YAK 52 360 HP 2.50/98", diameter.
> Other aircrafts using GT2-V-25 blades :
> Yak 52 TW.
> Yak 50.
> Yak 55.
> Yak 18.
> Other tests are in progress .
>
> Comparation
>
> GT2-V-25 price versus V530 and three blade.
> A reconditioned V-530 blades cost about 1.600,00 Euros with better
> looking. No performance increase.
> New GT blades with higher performance cost
> 5.500,00 Euros.
>
> Alternative :
> Three blade with modern looking and high performance cost about :
13.000 Euros
> Wich of these three options is your best solution ?
> IMPORTANT :
> GT-PROPELLERS supply only M-14 blades own designed and produced,
> statically balanced.
> GT-Propellers strongly advice to make new prop balance after
> installing the GT new blades.
> For every kind of M-14 application GT Propellers can advice you the
> best individual solution.
>
> Best regards,
> Humberto
>
> After this email I wrote another email to many YAK pilots and this
was the email: (please everybody notice the the date)
>
>
> From: Humberto Dramisino
> To: yakman(at)joimail.com <mailto:yakman(at)joimail.com>
> Cc: GT PROPELLERS
> Sent: 2/4/2009 6:42:26 AM
> Subject: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
>
> Dear Sir,
> My name is Humberto Dramisino and I'm a business partner with GT
propeller in Italy.
>
> GT is an old manufacture of propeller for aircraft and they do
propeller for warbird like your CJ and many other.
>
> I will receive by the end of February one set of blade for your
aircraft and I'm looking for somebody interested to buy them, all the
test they were already made in Italy and Romania, and the result were
outstanding compared to the original one.
> The price for both propeller delivered to you is 8989.00, attached to
this email you have the manual please have a look.
>
> Our propeller are made in high densified wood, and are capable to use
all the power of your engine not limited like some of our competitors.
>
> If you have any other question, please don't hesitate to contact me.
> Best regards,
> Humberto
>
> Mr. Craig answer was:
>
> rom yakman(at)joimail.com <mailto:yakman(at)joimail.com>
> reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com <mailto:yakman(at)joimail.com>
> to Humberto Dramisino
> date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM
> subject RE: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
> hide details 2/4/09
> Humberto,
>
> Thank you for the offer. Have not I seen this propeller blade
replacement offerring for over 3 years now? At $8989 USD for blades
only, I am afraid that the MTV 3-blade, with hub, becomes a viable
option. At a price point of $4000 - $5000 USD, the blades could get some
initial market share, leading to later price increases. Perhaps if your
company could visit the major events like Sun 'n Fun and Oshkosh with a
flying demo version, you could start getting orders in the U.S.
>
> I could try your prop blades and show them off as I am located at
Lakeland Florida at the Sun 'N Fun location and also fly at Oshkosh
AirVenure each year.
>
> Could I also suggest that your Yak Manual could use some editing of
the English translation? This is something I could do. I spent my career
in the technical world and have authored many of the manuals available
on the RedStar Pilots Association website.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> This is my answer:
>
> rom Humberto Dramisino
> to yakman(at)joimail.com <mailto:yakman(at)joimail.com>
> cc GT PROPELLERS
> date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:27 PM
> subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
> mailed-by gmail.com
> hide details 2/4/09
> Dear Craig,
> Thank you for your quick response, just to clarify, the price is for
the two blade delivered (shipping included), you have to only remove the
original and put the new one on it, same hub.
> The two blade perform way better than the 3 blade from MT you can not
even compare them, test were done in Italy.
> 3 blades look only nicer if you want, no more than that.
> with GT-Propeller we guarantee better climb, better cruise at same
rpm, shorter landing, low noise comparable to 3 blades, , not to mention
better fuel economy.
> The foil design by GT Italy only for the Yak's type airplane is not a
generic prop like MT.
> If you interested please let me know, we are looking for serious
people to do serious business, we are not looking for somebody to test
because as I mentioned test were already done for the past 5 years, the
product is final and outperform anything that today is on the market.
> I will have soon the first set in north America please let me know if
there is any interest on your side.
> We are so sure about our quality that in our policy is if you are not
satisfy we will take the propeller back and you will be refund in full,
this is how we now that our product is the best, try to ask MT to do the
same.
> Best regards,
> Humberto
>
> This is Mr. Craig answer:
>
> from yakman(at)joimail.com <mailto:yakman(at)joimail.com>
> reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com <mailto:yakman(at)joimail.com>
> to Humberto Dramisino
> date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:45 AM
> subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
> hide details 2/5/09
> Humberto,
>
> It's not about testing, it's about marketing. Many owners tend to
discount claims made by manufacturers and trust what they hear from a
fellow owner and see flying. Even if your blades could perform as you
state, no one is going to believe it without visible proof.
>
> The 3-blade "looks" better also, this is important to many owners.
Regardless, you will find few sales at those prices. As for the existing
2-blade V530, Whirlwind Propeller will refurbish an existing set of
blades with a composite cover and nickel edge for around $2500 per pair,
delivered. They look great and last a long time.
>
> My aircraft is a Nanchang CJ-6 with M-14P engine and large spinner,
my speeds are much higher than the Yaks. Could your propeller perform as
well on this kind of airframe? Engineering claims will not matter as
much as real comparisons by private owners.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> This is my last email before he stated "something got lost in the
translation:
>
> from Humberto Dramisino
> to yakman(at)joimail.com <mailto:yakman(at)joimail.com>
> cc GT PROPELLERS
> date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 7:45 AM
> subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
> mailed-by gmail.com
> hide details 2/5/09
> Dear Craig,
> Like I mentioned to you I'm only looking somebody serious to sell my
first set of blade, and it amazed me how in this field owners of
airplane are only looking for the cheapest thing in the market to
mounted on one of the most important part of the airplane, and they
don't look for more tangible improvement, not to mention safety.
> I see people repair cracked wood propeller on these airplanes by
adding a piece of wood in the crack with glue, sand it and flying it,
when in Italy we not even use them to hang it on the wall.
>
> I also notice that often some pilot spend many thousand of dollar in
useless instrument when the only important thing that hold them in the
air they want it as cheap as possible, well I don't want to generalize
and that's way I know i will find somebody that understand all this.
> About the speed of your airplane yes the propeller will do the
perfect job on yours as well, if your airplane is more sleek in the air
it will use more pitch and the blade is design for that.
>
> I will keep you posted,
> Best regards,
> Humberto Dramisino
>
> Since than I never heard from you, until you wrote to GT the following:
> Buongiorno Alex,
>
> So does all this text you wrote on the Yak-list mean that we will see
a set of those prop blades on a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 at either Sun-n-Fun or
Oshkosh? I have tried to communicate with "Humberto" via email numerous
times but something got lost in translation.
>
> It's not the Talk I'm interested in, It's your prop blades on one of
our airplanes Walking the Talk, that will sell me on this prop. Quotes
from your Engineering department, filtered through Marketing may prove
difficult to translate into sales.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> After this email... sorry guys I blew out, why? because after all the
tests done by Rick Volker in USA, and many other pilots worldwide, you
are still wondering if these blades are good or not, and trying to
convince us to send you a free set for you to test. Sorry you came too
late, no test no more, if want them you will have to pay.
> About the manufacturers that are doing good looking replacement
propellers I tell you: sorry, GT is focused on making hi performance
propellers not only good looking design, and safety is our first target
on our product.
> That's why GT takes the time to develop products - behind those
blades there are years of testing, test after test.
> The material GT use is one of the best available in world from the
wood to the composite, no compromise, no cheap off corners.
> GT doesn't make cheap propellers. If you are looking to save money
and buy a less expensive propeller and, you like to be a Guinea pig for
others then do what you please.
> If you'd like to discuss business, I can be available any time, just
call me.
> Best regards,
> Humberto
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328871#328871
>
>
>
>
>
>
><========================
*
*
|
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
|
|
Please ..... out of the list !!!
Didier
2011/1/29 gtnorth <hdramisino(at)gmail.com (hdramisino(at)gmail.com)>
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "gtnorth" <hdramisino(at)gmail.com (hdramisino(at)gmail.com)>
Dear Mr. Craig Payne, since it looks like I'm the bad guy, and you like to go public, I will put public all the email you sent me with my answer and let the other friends on the forum make their own conclusion.
Let's start:
from Cpayne
reply-to Cpayne
to hdramisino(at)gmail.com (hdramisino(at)gmail.com)
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 5:57 AM
subject Yak prop
mailed-by joimail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Sir;
Is that new propeller for the Yak a complete unit? I'm really only interested in new blades that fit the old hub.
Craig Payne
Humberto's answer:
Humberto Dramisino
to Cpayne
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM
subject Re: Yak prop
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 5/25/08
Dear Craig,
No they fit the original hub, you only have to do after installation a
dynamic balancing.
Please contact me for any other information
this is some information for you:
New GT2-V-25 blades versus V-530 Vperod
Type: Type :
GT2-V-25 V-530
Tractor Tractor
Two blade Two blade
Hub application : V530 V530
Installation :Screwed in to hub Same
Diameter : 2.50/98,4" 2.40/94.5"
Maximal blade width :245 mm/96" 240 mm/94.4
Weight:About 9 kgs/18 Po. a blade Same
Construction:Wood/carbon all wood
Leading protection :Composite metal
Blade design: Scimitar Oar Shape
Airfoils : GT design Unknown
Inertia moment : 05 KG-MP SP.S 05 KG-MP SP.S
Application: 2.50/98", 360 hp 360 HP
Looking : Modern sleek styled Old style
Availability : New production Only used
Maintenance : Spare blades /Oh Recon.old
PERFORMANCE AND ADVANTAGES .
Thanks to greater diameter and modern airfoils adopted on GT blades,
tested in various flying conditions for years, many Yak 52 achieved
outstanding performance compared to standard original blades :
- Greater static thrust.
- Shorter take off distance,both grass or hard surfaces.
- Higher cruise speed (at) any power setting.
- (at) 70% of power setting an average of 15 / 18 KMH / 8 /10 KTS faster.
- Shorter landings thanks to greater propeller disc.
- More energic feeling during all aerobatic manoeuvres.
- Very good cooling in hot places.
- Reduced noise level both in the cockpit that out side.
- Smoother engine running.
- Lower fuel burning.
- Reduced engine damage when prop ground impact compared to blade made
of aluminium or all composite.
FEATURES :
Blades diameter can be arraged from 2.50/98", up to 2.65/104".
Standard configuration scimitar tips shaped.
Square shaped blasdes on request.
Metal leading edge in progress.
For unlimited aerobatic operatos using 400/420 HP a greater metal
blade retention is adopted.
Standard finishing is high gloss White,Black,Grey.
Custom paint on request.
Carbon finishing is now available on request .
Worldwide delivery .
Standard YAK 52 360 HP 2.50/98", diameter.
Other aircrafts using GT2-V-25 blades :
Yak 52 TW.
Yak 50.
Yak 55.
Yak 18.
Other tests are in progress .
Comparation
GT2-V-25 price versus V530 and three blade.
A reconditioned V-530 blades cost about 1.600,00 Euros with better
looking. No performance increase.
New GT blades with higher performance cost
5.500,00 Euros.
Alternative :
Three blade with modern looking and high performance cost about : 13.000 Euros
Wich of these three options is your best solution ?
IMPORTANT :
GT-PROPELLERS supply only M-14 blades own designed and produced,
statically balanced.
GT-Propellers strongly advice to make new prop balance after
installing the GT new blades.
For every kind of M-14 application GT Propellers can advice you the
best individual solution.
Best regards,
Humberto
After this email I wrote another email to many YAK pilots and this was the email: (please everybody notice the the date)
From: Humberto Dramisino
To: yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
Cc: GT PROPELLERS
Sent: 2/4/2009 6:42:26 AM
Subject: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
Dear Sir,
My name is Humberto Dramisino and I'm a business partner with GT propeller in Italy.
GT is an old manufacture of propeller for aircraft and they do propeller for warbird like your CJ and many other.
I will receive by the end of February one set of blade for your aircraft and I'm looking for somebody interested to buy them, all the test they were already made in Italy and Romania, and the result were outstanding compared to the original one.
The price for both propeller delivered to you is 8989.00, attached to this email you have the manual please have a look.
Our propeller are made in high densified wood, and are capable to use all the power of your engine not limited like some of our competitors.
If you have any other question, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
Humberto
Mr. Craig answer was:
rom yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
to Humberto Dramisino
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM
subject RE: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/4/09
Humberto,
Thank you for the offer. Have not I seen this propeller blade replacement offerring for over 3 years now? At $8989 USD for blades only, I am afraid that the MTV 3-blade, with hub, becomes a viable option. At a price point of $4000 - $5000 USD, the blades could get some initial market share, leading to later price increases. Perhaps if your company could visit the major events like Sun 'n Fun and Oshkosh with a flying demo version, you could start getting orders in the U.S.
I could try your prop blades and show them off as I am located at Lakeland Florida at the Sun 'N Fun location and also fly at Oshkosh AirVenure each year.
Could I also suggest that your Yak Manual could use some editing of the English translation? This is something I could do. I spent my career in the technical world and have authored many of the manuals available on the RedStar Pilots Association website.
Craig Payne
This is my answer:
rom Humberto Dramisino
to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:27 PM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/4/09
Dear Craig,
Thank you for your quick response, just to clarify, the price is for the two blade delivered (shipping included), you have to only remove the original and put the new one on it, same hub.
The two blade perform way better than the 3 blade from MT you can not even compare them, test were done in Italy.
3 blades look only nicer if you want, no more than that.
with GT-Propeller we guarantee better climb, better cruise at same rpm, shorter landing, low noise comparable to 3 blades, , not to mention better fuel economy.
The foil design by GT Italy only for the Yak's type airplane is not a generic prop like MT.
If you interested please let me know, we are looking for serious people to do serious business, we are not looking for somebody to test because as I mentioned test were already done for the past 5 years, the product is final and outperform anything that today is on the market.
I will have soon the first set in north America please let me know if there is any interest on your side.
We are so sure about our quality that in our policy is if you are not satisfy we will take the propeller back and you will be refund in full, this is how we now that our product is the best, try to ask MT to do the same.
Best regards,
Humberto
This is Mr. Craig answer:
from yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
reply-to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
to Humberto Dramisino
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
hide details 2/5/09
Humberto,
It's not about testing, it's about marketing. Many owners tend to discount claims made by manufacturers and trust what they hear from a fellow owner and see flying. Even if your blades could perform as you state, no one is going to believe it without visible proof.
The 3-blade "looks" better also, this is important to many owners. Regardless, you will find few sales at those prices. As for the existing 2-blade V530, Whirlwind Propeller will refurbish an existing set of blades with a composite cover and nickel edge for around $2500 per pair, delivered. They look great and last a long time.
My aircraft is a Nanchang CJ-6 with M-14P engine and large spinner, my speeds are much higher than the Yaks. Could your propeller perform as well on this kind of airframe? Engineering claims will not matter as much as real comparisons by private owners.
Craig Payne
This is my last email before he stated "something got lost in the translation:
from Humberto Dramisino
to yakman(at)joimail.com (yakman(at)joimail.com)
cc GT PROPELLERS
date Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 7:45 AM
subject Re: Humberto Dramisino from GT Propeller
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 2/5/09
Dear Craig,
Like I mentioned to you I'm only looking somebody serious to sell my first set of blade, and it amazed me how in this field owners of airplane are only looking for the cheapest thing in the market to mounted on one of the most important part of the airplane, and they don't look for more tangible improvement, not to mention safety.
I see people repair cracked wood propeller on these airplanes by adding a piece of wood in the crack with glue, sand it and flying it, when in Italy we not even use them to hang it on the wall.
I also notice that often some pilot spend many thousand of dollar in useless instrument when the only important thing that hold them in the air they want it as cheap as possible, well I don't want to generalize and that's way I know i will find somebody that understand all this.
About the speed of your airplane yes the propeller will do the perfect job on yours as well, if your airplane is more sleek in the air it will use more pitch and the blade is design for that.
I will keep you posted,
Best regards,
Humberto Dramisino
Since than I never heard from you, until you wrote to GT the following:
Buongiorno Alex,
So does all this text you wrote on the Yak-list mean that we will see a set of those prop blades on a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 at either Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh? I have tried to communicate with "Humberto" via email numerous times but something got lost in translation.
It's not the Talk I'm interested in, It's your prop blades on one of our airplanes Walking the Talk, that will sell me on this prop. Quotes from your Engineering department, filtered through Marketing may prove difficult to translate into sales.
Craig Payne
After this email... sorry guys I blew out, why? because after all the tests done by Rick Volker in USA, and many other pilots worldwide, you are still wondering if these blades are good or not, and trying to convince us to send you a free set for you to test. Sorry you came too late, no test no more, if want them you will have to pay.
About the manufacturers that are doing good looking replacement propellers I tell you: sorry, GT is focused on making hi performance propellers not only good looking design, and safety is our first target on our product.
That's why GT takes the time to develop products - behind those blades there are years of testing, test after test.
The material GT use is one of the best available in world from the wood to the composite, no compromise, no cheap off corners.
GT doesn't make cheap propellers. If you are looking to save money and buy a less expensive propeller and, you like to be a Guinea pig for others then do what you please.
If you'd like to discuss business, I can be available any time, just call me.
Best regards,
Humberto
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328871#328871
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--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)
0624243672
[quote][b]
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Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
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wise(at)txc.net.au
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: Subject: Customer Service Example |
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|
G'Day All,
I have to agree with Dennis.
I enjoy reading the articles posted but this is now just becoming a drag and
it should be now left alone.
Enough has been said and if some of you wish to continue and turn this in
mud slinging match, then please do so off list.
The points have been made.
At the same time, it is probably justified for someone to defend themselves
after a member has posted derogatory remarks, albeit that member possibly
trying to do the right thing by all of us in alerting us to what he
perceives to be a problem.
Now in essence, that's good, as it is good that the members alert us to what
they believe to be a problem that could impact on all of our wellbeing and
interest's.
Thanks Craig and thanks Humberto.
Cheers,
Chris.
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