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Firestar to MK III C transition.

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Thumper

Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Oakland TN.

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

To all

Please give me in the simplest form the major differences between the Firestar I and a MK3C.  I have sold my Firestar KX to a fellow in TX and I am buying the MK3C owned by Keith Anderson in Oregon.  I intend to get my SP rating and I have an instructor lined up. I have 100+ hours in an Ultrastar and 100+ hours in the Firestar all within the last 2 years.  I have been reading the old posts and I am looking for the most important tips you all have for me on this transition. I know I will have to learn the 912 80hp engine but I have plenty of local help for that.



Thanks

Dennis Long in W. TN.

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_________________
Dennis Long
Oakland TN
2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser, 2016 A22LS Aeroprakt
Previously Kolb Mark IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar.
1200+hours since 1/1/2009

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:41 pm Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

To all

Please give me in the simplest form the major differences between  the Firestar I and a MK3C.  I have sold my Firestar KX to a fellow in TX  and I am buying the MK3C owned by Keith Anderson in Oregon. 

  

 I am familiar with Keith's plane, and own a Firestar II  and have owned a Mark III. If you can fly a Firestar, you shouldn't have any  trouble with the Mark III. Its bigger, should be faster, land pretty much the  same if not a bit slower, carry more weight. The comparison that I would make is  that you are trading a sports car for a van, but you will have more range and  can carry more stuff. Should be no problem for you.

 Larry 

 Oregon

  

 Note: If you forward this email, please delete the  forwarding history, which includes my email address.

   [quote][b]

_________________
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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

The comparison that I would make is that you are trading a sports car for a 

van, but you will have more range and can carry more stuff. Should be no 

problem for you.

Larry

Larry C/Gang:



I agree with Larry.  If you can fly one model Kolb, you can fly them all.



Since Larry hurt my feelings referring to MKIII's at "vans", I will have to 

fly circles around him next June, if I can make it back to the Rock House. 





Sitting here getting antsier waiting on warm weather and some cross country 

flying.  Last cross country was Sun and Fun 2010.



john h

MKIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

Since Larry hurt my feelings  referring to MKIII's at "vans", I will have to 

fly circles around him next  June, if I can make it back to the Rock House.  



  

 Works for me.

 Larry

  

  

 Note: If you forward this email, please delete the  forwarding history, which includes my email address.

   [quote][b]

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Arksey(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

In a message dated 1/27/2011 3:42:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  To    all

Please give me in the simplest form the major differences between the    Firestar I and a MK3C.  I have sold my Firestar KX to a fellow in TX and    I am buying the MK3C owned by Keith Anderson in  Oregon. 	
 My experience flying Kolb's started with some dual in a MK lll to give me  some idea how a Kolb was to fly, I then purchased a Kolb firestar ll and have  put a lot of hours on it and enjoy it.  I had as with every airplane to get  used to some things. This last summer I put a lot of time in a MK lll C and  found it to be the same airplane as far as traits as the Firestar. It is a good  airplane and you will enjoy it.  You need to get used to it, I would  suggest spending time just setting in it to become familiar with were things  are, spend some time taxing, become familiar with the required speeds, in other  words the things you would do when flying any different airplane....I would not  fool with the flaps until I had got somewhat used to the plane. I would use no  flaps on take off and when I was  used to flying the plane then I would  deploy the flaps at proper airspeed and with some altitude to get used to them,  I would also suggest that upon the lst flight to go up to a safe altitude and do  some stalls to find out where the indicated airspeed stall is . I am sure I have  repeated a lot of things you already know but it is always good to be  reminded.   The most important thing is to always fly the airplane',  don't let it fly you....   Jim Swan  up in cold and snowy  Michigan 

  

 Do not  archive

FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan

GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581  W084deg 44.825

ph. 517-663-8488

  [quote][b]

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

I had an Original Firestar (corvette) with a lot of changes to it to reduce drag  I could catch a friend of mine in a PA11 and pass him, I  kick my self in the A%# for getting rid of it, and Getting into a MK3C I call (Slow Poke) 30 MPH slower than the firestar but fly's the same gets off quick and climbs like a home sick angel The Mk3C has more drag a lot more I have been making changes to it to reduce drag . although it has enough room to haul plenty of gear and a chance to give someone a ride.  if I can get this MK3C to go like my Firestar I will be happy with it, if not I will probably sell it, I just cant get my self to try to do long cross countrys with Ole Slow Poke when I can  take the scenic rout and drive there faster  its hard to make a change and lose that much speed for me anyway  

 

   The firestar  Held 10 Gallons of fuel and would sip 2.7 GPH   

   The MK3C Holds 20 Gallons of Fuel and Gulps 6.+ GPH 

   sorry about the long rant 

   You should be all set to jump into it and fly away  if you have 100 hours in a firestar though 

    

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 

   --

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

I feel the need for a bit of a disclaimer here. The plane  that he is buying has a 80 horse 912 on it and if he is getting the whole  package, ( trailer and goodies) is getting a good deal. The plane will fly  faster than his Firestar, I would expect the cruise to be about 75 to 80 true  airspeed, and the 912 is pretty easy on fuel. The Mark III that I had was  powered by a 582 and sucked gas. That by the way was the only reason that I got  rid of it. Didn't think I could afford a 912. If it had flown like John's Pfer I  sure would have kept it. ( Now are you happy, old man?)

  

 I am quite sure that you will like the plane and get a lot  of enjoyment out of it. If your path goes any where close to here you are  welcome to stop by for the night. Klamath Falls is about 6 hours ( 330 miles)  from here.

 42 40.919 N  117 51 198 W

  

 Larry

  

  

 Note: If you forward this email, please delete the  forwarding history, which includes my email address.

   [quote][b]

_________________
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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Firestar to MK III C transition.

"If you can fly one model Kolb, you can fly them all....



john h "

The following does not really apply to the original question but I just couldn't let the above statement go by without comment.



I agree that if you can FLY one Kolb you can FLY them all, but landing and take-off on pavement in a Slingshot is a different story. It is not hard to learn but it is not really much like the short leg Kolbs; more like a traditional tail dragger with excellent visibility.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Firestar to MK III C transition.

 	  elleryweld(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  

   The firestar  Held 10 Gallons of fuel and would sip 2.7 GPHï¿½  

   The MK3C Holds 20 Gallons of Fuel and Gulps 6.+ GPH 

        Ellery Batchelder Jr.

    -- 	




What kind of engine were you using that burns more than 6 GPH? My 582 burns less than 4 unless I am running it wide open. 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

when trying to keep up with everyone else I fly with the 582 is to thirsty for my budget 

   at a much reduced power setting when I am flying alone it will burn a bit above 4 but it will take you all day to get there it seems 

 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:44 am Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

What kind of engine were you using that burns more than 6 GPH? My 582 burns 

less than 4 unless I am running it wide open.



Richard Pike



Richard P/Gang:

Fuel consumption is based on how the MKIII is flown.  Most 582's on MKIII's 

burn 5 gph.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: Firestar to MK III C transition.

Forgot to include the rpm in my previous msg.



Fuel consumption is based on how the MKIII is flown.  Most 582's on MKIII's

burn 5 gph at 5800.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar to MK III C transition.

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  Forgot to include the rpm in my previous msg.



Fuel consumption is based on how the MKIII is flown.  Most 582's on MKIII's

burn 5 gph at 5800.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama 	




I guess that explains why I never go anywhere, 5800 is above my comfort zone. 

I would rather roll with the punches than fight back. <grin>



Have to be content with looking at the pictures the rest of you take.

So keep taking those pictures & post them. (But not at full size, please)



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar to MK III C transition.

[quote="lcottrell"]The comparison that I would make is  that you are trading a sports car for a van, but you will have more range and  can carry more stuff. 

 Larry 

 Oregon

  	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




Having owned a MKIII since 1995 and having a FSII in the hangar next to me since 2005 (which I could fly whenever I wanted,) let me weigh in on this.



If you leave the aileron bellcrank which connects to the aileron pushrods the standard distance between the two pushrod bolt holes, then I would agree with you, and would also add that both of them require heavy stick forces to extract maximum agility.



If you reduce the distance between the bolt holes to improve your stick leverage on both airplanes, then the FSII simply becomes a lot less labor intensive to fly, and the MKIII becomes not only less labor intensive, but a lot more agile in the process. This might seem a bit counter-intuitive, nonetheless that is how it works, probably because none of us is likely to try and get serious agility out of an airplane when it seems like it takes "too much muscle" to do it.



Modified you have a situation where the FSII handles like a smaller sports car, and the MKIII like a well designed sports sedan with all the handling options. Plus room for sweet thing & a picnic lunch...



MKIII aileron mod: http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg7.htm

FSII aileron mod: http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/FSII%20ailerons.html



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Firestar to MK III C transition.

Richard,



I miss your NSX avatar, much prettier than that photo of your distant cousin . Speaking of the NSX, I would suggest that to be the automotive comparison to the Kolb Slingshot.



do not archive

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar to MK III C transition.

 	  Thom Riddle wrote: 	
		  Richard,



I miss your NSX avatar, much prettier than that photo of your distant cousin . Speaking of the NSX, I would suggest that to be the automotive comparison to the Kolb Slingshot.



do not archive 	


A good wife, a good Kolb, and a good car, and I'm good to go. 

(PS: this is part of the reason why I'm a preacher of the Gospel. God's grace giving me what I don't deserve, and His mercy sparing me from what I do deserve. I probably know more about that than anybody!)



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



(Ok, I'll try and bring back the NSX avatar. Assuming I can find it again...)



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