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FamilyGage(at)AOL.COM
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 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: Jets |
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Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting. Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine #775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
familygage(at)aol.com (familygage(at)aol.com)
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voroninmax(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:55 am Post subject: Jets |
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Hi Ray,
I'd need to verify how the Esquals are usually jetted, as well as see your EGTs and GPH, but it does sound like it is running rich. On my Lightning with the original Jabiru jets, I'd flood the engine at 4000 feet at wide open throttle. Sounds very similar to what you are experiencing, but I'd like to hear from the factory guys.
All the best,
Max
| Quote: | On Jan 30, 2011 11:46 AM, <FamilyGage(at)aol.com (FamilyGage(at)aol.com)> wrote:
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting. Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine #775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
familygage(at)aol.com (familygage(at)aol.com)
| Quote: |
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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Wayne Lenox
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: Jets |
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Ray
Check out the Hacman mixture control from Green Sky adventures Inc. I installed one on my 3300 powered Lightning and it runs much better at altitude. At 9500ft I use 4 1/2 GPH at 2900 RPM.
Wayne
N123WL
--------
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:06 am Post subject: Jets |
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Same deal with my 3300 in my Esqual first time round at max rev's it 'bobbled' is how I would describe it. Pull it back a bit and it evened out. I thought it was going over rich but had other issues to chase and resolved to look into it later.
I had the plane out the air for 9 months when I fixed the U/C and took the time to change the cowlings to a Lightning set and do some tidying up. Now it's not doing the uneven running. The only thing that is different is I have a smooth bore hose elbow on the carby inlet. My son was messing with his car and fitted a fancy high flow airfilter, the old system had a hose with a nice bend in it and after trimming it it fitted nicely between the filter box (Arion) and the carby. The NACA scoop in the cowling is also different but I don't think that is what made the difference..
Not suggesting this is the issue in your case but the performance at max throttle was as you describe. Changing the airflow into the carb has got rid of it maybe something to think about.
Regards, Clive
3300 #1460
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maxim Voronin
Sent: 30 January 2011 17:53
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Jets
Hi Ray,
I'd need to verify how the Esquals are usually jetted, as well as see your EGTs and GPH, but it does sound like it is running rich. On my Lightning with the original Jabiru jets, I'd flood the engine at 4000 feet at wide open throttle. Sounds very similar to what you are experiencing, but I'd like to hear from the factory guys.
All the best,
Max
| Quote: | On Jan 30, 2011 11:46 AM, <FamilyGage(at)aol.com (FamilyGage(at)aol.com)> wrote:
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting. Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine #775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
familygage(at)aol.com (familygage(at)aol.com)
| Quote: |
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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FamilyGage(at)AOL.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: Jets |
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Clive:
Thanks for the suggestion. I have a Lightning cowl, but no air box or ducting. Just don't how she ran so well for three years. Just never had a need for using over 3,000 rpm. Will take things apart next week.
Ray
In a message dated 1/30/2011 2:06:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, clive.james(at)uk.bp.com writes:
| Quote: | Same deal with my 3300 in my Esqual first time round at max rev's it 'bobbled' is how I would describe it. Pull it back a bit and it evened out. I thought it was going over rich but had other issues to chase and resolved to look into it later.
I had the plane out the air for 9 months when I fixed the U/C and took the time to change the cowlings to a Lightning set and do some tidying up. Now it's not doing the uneven running. The only thing that is different is I have a smooth bore hose elbow on the carby inlet. My son was messing with his car and fitted a fancy high flow airfilter, the old system had a hose with a nice bend in it and after trimming it fitted nicely between the filter box (Arion) and the carby. The NACA scoop in the cowling is also different but I don't think that is what made the difference..
Not suggesting this is the issue in your case but the performance at max throttle was as you describe. Changing the airflow into the carb has got rid of it maybe something to think about.
Regards, Clive
3300 #1460
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maxim Voronin
Sent: 30 January 2011 17:53
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Jets
Hi Ray,
I'd need to verify how the Esquals are usually jetted, as well as see your EGTs and GPH, but it does sound like it is running rich. On my Lightning with the original Jabiru jets, I'd flood the engine at 4000 feet at wide open throttle. Sounds very similar to what you are experiencing, but I'd like to hear from the factory guys.
All the best,
Max
| Quote: | On Jan 30, 2011 11:46 AM, <FamilyGage(at)aol.com (FamilyGage(at)aol.com)> wrote:
Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting. Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine #775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
familygage(at)aol.com (familygage(at)aol.com)
| Quote: |
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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FamilyGage(at)AOL.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: Jets |
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Thanks Wayne:
Will attempt to reach Green Sky.
Ray
In a message dated 1/30/2011 1:06:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, waynelenox(at)juno.com writes:
[quote]
Ray
Check out the Hacman mixture control from Green Sky adventures Inc. I installed one on my 3300 powered Lightning and it runs much better at altitude. At 9500ft I use 4 1/2 GPH at 2900 RPM.
Wayne
N123WL
--------
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:25 pm Post subject: Jets |
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Ray,
A few thoughts come to mind as I read your email. First, your engine at serial number 775 will be a solid lifter engine and thus require the valve adjustments on a regular basis. I now have about 720 hours on my engine (#843, I think) and I can get away with only adjusting them about every 100 hours, but when I had less time on the engine, I always adjusted the valves at about 50 hours. If the valves clearance is not set right you may lose some RPM or get some rough running at the higher RPMs. So to get ready for the race, make sure your valves have been recently adjusted properly - .010.
Another thought, I think I remember that you have the Lightning nose cowling on now. That will make your airplane slicker (less drag) and you should be able to get the same speed at a lower RPM since the engine will not have to work as hard. So you should be getting a higher RPM with the Lightning cowling at WOT. But, since your engine is showing black soot in your exhaust stacks, that certainly would indicate you are running too rich. Next time you fly at the high RPM that causes the rough running, pull on carb heat to see if that helps smooth out the engine - another indication of being too rich. My engine has no muffler so my carb hear muff is pretty small on one of the straight exhaust pipes. Even that little amount of carb heat would show me I was indeed too rich.
One final thought - have you changed to a higher pitch prop. That too can cause the engine to richen out a little.
I don't remember if you are running gear leg fairings and Lightning low drag wheel pants, but if so, and with the right carb settings and the right prop, you can easily beat the 116 knots you mentioned. I don't remember the numbers at the moment, but look back in the Lightning newsletters to the issue that reported on the Lightning speed dash at this past October's Lightning Fly In, and you will get and idea of what speed an Esqual LS (Lightning Stuff) is capable of - even in bumpy air.
Good luck on the upcoming race. Blow them other airplanes out of the sky.
Blue Skies,
Buz
In a message dated 1/30/2011 12:44:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, FamilyGage(at)AOL.COM writes:
| Quote: | Gentlemen:
I realize that there have been many comments concerning Bing jetting. Frankly, since my 3300 has run like a Swiss watch, I didn't pay enough attention.
About three years ago I purchased an Esqual built in 2005. Have used many Lightning upgrades, but have made no FWF changes.
She just came out of annual. The plugs were so good, they were not replaced. Oil was extremely clean. Valves, prop etc.all normal. This engine #775 3300 has run so smoothly that you had to look at the tack to make sure that it was running. The belly was always clean, and she used maybe a table spoon of oil.
I live in the Spruce Creek Flyin and we have an annual 100nm race. The race is broken down into planes with similar cruise speeds.
Last year in the 120 kt class there was about 8 planes. I was the only Light Sport, now we have 10-15 finished or being built. Anyway, I won the race with an average speed of about 116 kt.
All of my flying is mostly local 50-100 miles, and use 2,850-2,900 rpm; and as I said the Jabiru ran smooth as glass.
This year with the increased competition, I felt that we had to push harder.
PROBLEM=As I approached 3,000 rpm the engine began to run very rough, and got worse with anything higher. Therefore, we ran at 2,850,and the engine smoothed out, but still didn't sound correct.
When back to the hanger I examined the exhaust stacks. They were totally black with heavy soot, and there was some evidence of oil and black soot on the belly.
I have an excellent A/P who is learning about the Jabiru, but there are no experts in the area.
Request any suggestions or guidance to follow before I crank the engine to prevent any damage.
Thank you for reading this long request.
Ray Gage
386.304.6808
familygage(at)aol.com (familygage(at)aol.com)
| Quote: |
====================================
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
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[quote][b]
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