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rngurley
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft. Does anyone have experience with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint? Unfortunately, my RV10 in not ready to paint - and probably will not be for some time. Thank you in advance for any comments.
Dick Gurley
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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I know this is far more info than you asked for ...... but hopefully
others might benefit.
Two things make a great paint job .... preparation and ..... practice.
Practice on your current airplane and you'll be way ahead when you get
to the -10.
The best job would be a strip and paint ..... sand and paint leaves a
lot of extra weight on the airframe.
Work on filling dings and deep scratches ..... the smallest imperfection
shows up in the paint.
Choose your base color ..... I like white ..... even if you're going to
paint over almost all of it. It'll give even color presentation everywhere.
Use 3M Fineline masking tape .... green for straight lines, blue for
curves. Use paint masking paper. Newspaper doesn't hack it. The paint
job is not the place to save money.
Get a good paint gun. Yup, I've used HF paint guns, but you get what
you pay for, and a quality tool will not let you down.
Mix the paint, reducer and catalyst. I like to reduce the paint a
little more than recommended. Not a lot. A little. Use the proper
reducer for the temperature you'll spray in. Wait 30 minutes. They
call this 'induction time'. I don't know why it matters whether the
induction time occurs in the spray gun pot or on the airplane .... but
it does.
Use a tack cloth everywhere!!!! Change the cloth often. They're cheap
and really help a nice paint job.
Spray a tack coat .... really, really, light. Wait about 30 minutes.
Spray a light cross coat. Wait 30 minutes.
Spray a second cross coat.
Look carefully at your paint job for Throw away that paint left in
the spray gun. Resist the urge to spray it on the plane. All it adds
is weight .... and sags. Clean up the equipment and go home.
Did you notice the 'Wait 30 minutes'???? I found that if you scrimp on
the 30 minutes, the possibility of runs and sags goes way up. A
professional painter may not do this, but I'm not a pro painter and
don't play one on TV. No matter how many times I stayed at a Holiday
Inn ..... I still needed that time.
Best of luck .... and post the pictures when you get done.
Linn
On 2/4/2011 8:24 PM, rngurley wrote:
| Quote: |
I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft. Does anyone have experience with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint? Unfortunately, my RV10 in not ready to paint - and probably will not be for some time. Thank you in advance for any comments.
Dick Gurley
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329675#329675
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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And, don't forget, Imron is pretty toxic. Wear personal protection equipment.
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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jerry_stark(at)prodigy.ne
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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It will take more than 30 minutes to finish the first coat on an airplane. you should be able to return to where you started and continue spraying.
--- On Fri, 2/4/11, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 7:55 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <[url=/mc/compose?to=pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net]pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net[/url]>
I know this is far more info than you asked for ...... but hopefully others might benefit.
Two things make a great paint job .... preparation and ..... practice. Practice on your current airplane and you'll be way ahead when you get to the -10.
The best job would be a strip and paint ..... sand and paint leaves a lot of extra weight on the airframe.
Work on filling dings and deep scratches .... the smallest imperfection shows up in the paint.
Choose your base color ..... I like white ..... even if you're going to paint over almost all of it. It'll give even color presentation everywhere.
Use 3M Fineline masking tape .... green for straight lines, blue for curves. Use paint masking paper. Newspaper doesn't hack it. The paint job is not the place to save money.
Get a good paint gun. Yup, I've used HF paint guns, but you get what you pay for, and a quality tool will not let you down.
Mix the paint, reducer and catalyst. I like to reduce the paint a little more than recommended. Not a lot. A little. Use the proper reducer for the temperature you'll spray in. Wait 30 minutes. They call this 'induction time'. I don't know why it matters whether the induction time occurs in the spray gun pot or on the airplane .... but it does.
Use a tack cloth everywhere!!!! Change the cloth often. They're cheap and really help a nice paint job.
Spray a tack coat .... really, really, light. Wait about 30 minutes.
Spray a light cross coat. Wait 30 minutes.
Spray a second cross coat.
Look carefully at your paint job for Throw away that paint left in the spray gun. Resist the urge to spray it on the plane. All it adds is weight .... and sags. Clean up the equipment and go home.
Did you notice the 'Wait 30 minutes'???? I found that if you scrimp on the 30 minutes, the possibility of runs and sags goes way up. A professional painter may not do this, but I'm not a pro painter and don't play one on TV. No matter how many times I stayed at a Holiday Inn ..... I still needed that time.
Best of luck .... and post the pictures when you get done.
Linn
On 2/4/2011 8:24 PM, rngurley wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "rngurley"<[url=/mc/compose?to=rngurley(at)att.net]rngurley(at)att.net[/url]>
I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft. Does anyone have experience with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint? Unfortunately, my RV10 in not ready to paint - and probably will not be for some time. Thank you in advance for any comments.
Dick Gurley
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329675#329675
&cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi - MATRONICS WEB href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matrobsp; - List Contribution Web Site -http://w=======================
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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Good point Jerry!!! I don't paint everything at once. Wings and tail feathers off so I can turn them or hang them to get both sides etc. Fuselage by itself etc. I've never had the room to paint an airplane assembled. I don't mind taking the time since removing sags and runs is a lot more time consuming. Also, remember that I'm not a pro ......
Trim paint applied same way, with masking paper and plastic sheet to protect other areas from overspray. Successive coats start in the same place, so the oldest paint may be 1 hour (or more) 'old'. Urethanes have a long pot life if mixed correctly and have the correct reducer, so the spraying time isn't a factor. I use the 'break' for some liquid for me and mix more paint. Oh yeah, as someone said .... use a real good paint face mask with both a cloth and carbon filter. I don't care for the fresh air hoods/masks because I always seem to catch the hose on something. It would, of course, be better.
Linn
On 2/5/2011 2:07 PM, Jerry Stark wrote: [quote] It will take more than 30 minutes to finish the first coat on an airplane. you should be able to return to where you started and continue spraying.
--- On Fri, 2/4/11, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net) wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)
Subject: Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 7:55 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <[url=/mc/compose?to=pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net]pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net[/url]>
I know this is far more info than you asked for ...... but hopefully others might benefit.
Two things make a great paint job .... preparation and ..... practice. Practice on your current airplane and you'll be way ahead when you get to the -10.
The best job would be a strip and paint ..... sand and paint leaves a lot of extra weight on the airframe.
Work on filling dings and deep scratches ..... the smallest imperfection shows up in the paint.
Choose your base color ..... I like white ..... even if you're going to paint over almost all of it. It'll give even color presentation everywhere.
Use 3M Fineline masking tape .... green for straight lines, blue for curves. Use paint masking paper. Newspaper doesn't hack it. The paint job is not the place to save money.
Get a good paint gun. Yup, I've used HF paint guns, but you get what you pay for, and a quality tool will not let you down.
Mix the paint, reducer and catalyst. I like to reduce the paint a little more than recommended. Not a lot. A little. Use the proper reducer for the temperature you'll spray in. Wait 30 minutes. They call this 'induction time'. I don't know why it matters whether the induction time occurs in the spray gun pot or on the airplane .... but it does.
Use a tack cloth everywhere!!!! Change the cloth often. They're cheap and really help a nice paint job.
Spray a tack coat .... really, really, light. Wait about 30 minutes.
Spray a light cross coat. Wait 30 minutes.
Spray a second cross coat.
Look carefully at your paint job for Throw away that paint left in the spray gun. Resist the urge to spray it on the plane. All it adds is weight .... and sags. Clean up the equipment and go home.
Did you notice the 'Wait 30 minutes'???? I found that if you scrimp on the 30 minutes, the possibility of runs and sags goes way up. A professional painter may not do this, but I'm not a pro painter and don't play one on TV. No matter how many times I stayed at a Holiday Inn ..... I still needed that time.
Best of luck .... and post the pictures when you get done.
Linn
On 2/4/2011 8:24 PM, rngurley wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "rngurley"<[url=/mc/compose?to=rngurley(at)att.net]rngurley(at)att.net[/url]>
>
> I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft. Does anyone have experience with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint? Unfortunately, my RV10 in not ready to paint - and probably will not be for some time. Thank you in advance for any comments.
>
> Dick Gurley
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329675#329675
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi - MATRONICS WEB href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matrobsp; - List Contribution Web Site -http://w=======================
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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I'm half way through painting my '10. Cold temperatures brought me to a
halt. I figure I'll be back up and running in about 3 weeks.
I've documented some of it on my log here:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=5986
This being a first attempt, I certainly don't know what I'm talking
about. Just learning, making observations and projections based on one
incomplete experience.
I'm using a Dupont Imron Elite - that seems to be the current Imron
product line. Imron is a big brand with a lot of history. Seems to be
a very high quality line of paint. Things said about previous
iterations of Imron dont necessarily apply so be cautious of all Web advice.
I've gone with a single stage paint rather than a base coat/clear coat -
both have advantages.
There are detailed manufacturers data sheets for all products. They are
on the Web and your local paint supplier will have them. I suggest
reading them and treating them as gospel before listening to any other
advice. It's in the manufacturers best interest to have their products
perform well and to be used optimally. The only notable exception I
found surrounds regulations around VOCs (the poison stuff your going to
spray all over the place). A little reading between the lines can help
get slightly better results, i.e. don't be afraid to thin stuff a bit
more than spec'd.
Urethane paints are highly toxic. Hang around a paint distributor for a
few hours and you'll start to see some of the effects. The toxicity
apparently caught some of the old hands by surprise. Ventilation is
good, fresh air to breath mandatory in my opinion. I like my fresh
air system so much I often use it when sanding fiberglass.
Pay attention to data sheets - things like 30 min induction time is
mandatory for some paints (e.g. epoxies), not for others. Temperature
ranges seem to be important - keeping the aircraft AND the paint within
the range eliminates a lot of problems.. If they say spray one light
coat, wait, they spray full coat - do it for best results. If they say
spray two full coats as a cross coat, do that.
Having a paint supplier that is local and accessible is more important
than the brand of paint in my opinion. Unless you go with one of the
folks that specialize in serving homebuilders. Loehle has documented a
lot of good stuff even though I'm not using his system. He has a good
pin hole filler product.
The good news is that the modern paints are tough and look great. But
you really don't want to get any on something you don't want it on - it
won't come off easily. Your neighbors will not like any overspray. I
wonder what refinishing is like for an aircraft painted with Imron -
cant imagine that it strips... does it?
Paint guns - A pro-grade HVLP setup seem optimal. By pro grade I mean
$$$$ with clean high pressure air to the gun and pressure reduction done
in the head. Watching the local pros use there equipment with Imron is
entirely different than what I'm doing. I have a high quality HVLP gun
with a combination low pressure turbine and fresh air system from
Aircraft spruce. Everything you need for about $1,000. I can get good
results but not as easily or as productively as the pros around the
corner from me. An old style high pressure system will work with this
paint too by most accounts (I don't really know). The old pros will
swear by it (because it's what they know). You'll waste a lot more
paint. The stuff can get very expensive, especially in the fancy
colors. You'll throw off a lot more toxic, sticky stuff.
Practice practice, and I don't necessarily mean just with the gun.
Prep, mixing, everything benefits from practice. Like every job on a
first home build, by the time you finish it, you probably have become
competent in it. Unlike other jobs (riveting), your early mistakes can
be hard to hide. Practice on something else first can be a good thing.
Everyone will tell you that it's 90% prep and 10% paint - it's a lie.
It's 99% prep for a top notch job.
Anyway, I swore I'd never paint. I'm doing it anyway. I'm loving it.
Bill
On 2/4/2011 8:24 PM, rngurley wrote:
| Quote: |
I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft. Does anyone have experience with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint? Unfortunately, my RV10 in not ready to paint - and probably will not be for some time. Thank you in advance for any comments.
Dick Gurley
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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Hey Dick,
From the replies you've received and your response, I think you'll do just fine -- just don't blow yourself up trying to heat your paint both with open flame in cool weather!!
Your original query was about Imron vs. PPG. When Imron first came out many years ago, it was the rage cuz it was so tough. Then urethane base/clear came out, and for some reason the car painters (around here at least) never used Imron again. I started painting after Imron was no longer in vogue, and I used PPG with great results for years. Then my supplier got tired of PPG's high expense and now only deals in Dupont -- so Dupont is what I've been using lately.
As I'm writing this, I'm waiting the 30 minutes between the second and third blue stripe coat -- Wes trashed his nosewheel pants in a hard landing, so I'm finishing up a new one. I'll include a couple pics of these steps. I've taken pictures of the process from patching the fiberglass (he landed with a low air nosewheel in a trial fit and the tire caught just enough of the back of the glass to break it out) to present -- so if anyone is interested I can send or post all of them.
This is Dupont's Centari Acrylic Enamel with gloss hardener added. I like it (or urethane enalmel) better than base/clear for the plane due to the weight of clear, and the ease of touching up the one step paints.
One more comment: As you can see, I also paint in pieces in my backyard shop, and I still use lots of newspaper for these small pieces, covering windows, etc. But for covering the fuse and wings for doing stripe work, I agree that plastic or roll paper is the way to go.
Later, - Lew
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_________________
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crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
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rngurley
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
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Thank you to all! This has been a great help.
--
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